Volume Versus Frequency

  1. Volume Versus Frequency


    Wanted to start a conversion in regards to volume versus frequency training. Personally I enjoy volume training. I have seen great results with two body part splits, so three workouts with 3-6 sets for each muscle group hitting each group twice a week. I have never been a big fan of frequency training where you perform a full body workout usually 6 times a week focusing more on pull and push workouts.

    For enhanced lifters where the protein synthesis is extended it makes sense to opt for volume and more specific muscle group targeting. For natural lifters where protein synthesis is only 24-48 hours is frequency most optimal for building muscles? The research I have found is mixed but the basic science behind frequency makes sense you are stimulating the muscle more often giving it more opportunities to grow.

    For natural lifters trying to build muscles is this training approach a legitimate technique? I'm personally trying this technique to see if it something to leverage for myself and for others. I wanted to hear people's experiences and if I should take the time to explore this method.


  2. For natural lifters, frequency is key. Even those using gear could follow a frequency program, but for naturals, they benefit more from that than volume. Take a look at these two, recent articles.

    The number one mistake by natural lifters is doing too much volume.
    You need to trigger protein synthesis and then stop training.
    Frequency is also super important. Hitting a muscle three times per week is the optimal frequency for natties.
    The key to growth is to have a big disparity between protein synthesis and protein breakdown. The more volume you use, the more you break down protein.
    The best split for the natural is the push/pull split. It's both physically and psychologically beneficial.
    https://www.t-nation.com/training/th...atural-lifters

    This article gives a sample program.

    https://www.t-nation.com/workouts/th...lifters-part-2
    Performax Labs Product Specialist
    Follow My Journey: http://anabolicminds.com/forum/workout-logs/269588-antms-lean-bulk.html
    •   
       


  3. Thanks for sharing.

    I did actually come across these articles when looking into changing up my program. I'm giving the program referenced in the first article a try.

    This frequency program is definitely different than programs I have leveraged in the past. It's to soon to start to determine how my body is responding to this training style. Initially I was concerned as this routine is much shorter then my usual programs. Typically I lift no more then about 1 hr - 1.5 hrs, and this routine can be done within 30 mins - 45 mins. I don't think this is a negative though as I still feeling a good response after training in terms of soreness.

  4. Quote Originally Posted by GAINZFORDAYZ View Post
    Thanks for sharing.

    I did actually come across these articles when looking into changing up my program. I'm giving the program referenced in the first article a try.

    This frequency program is definitely different than programs I have leveraged in the past. It's to soon to start to determine how my body is responding to this training style. Initially I was concerned as this routine is much shorter then my usual programs. Typically I lift no more then about 1 hr - 1.5 hrs, and this routine can be done within 30 mins - 45 mins. I don't think this is a negative though as I still feeling a good response after training in terms of soreness.
    Think about it. You sessions are shorter because you're hitting each group twice per week. You do not need the same amount of volume per session. It is hard to get used to. I still am.
    Performax Labs Product Specialist
    Follow My Journey: http://anabolicminds.com/forum/workout-logs/269588-antms-lean-bulk.html

  5. I haven't read those articles but I will lay out my logic, heavily borrowed from the thoughts of Mike Mentzer.

    The process of getting bigger requires the following pattern to play out:

    Stimulus (training) ---> revovery (replenishment) ---> super compensation (growth)

    This is different than how most people actually think of it because they often see recovery/growth as being the same thing, and while they both happen durong rest periods and not in the gym, they are different phases and you cannot grow until you recover.

    What this means is, the more "stimulus" you provide, the longer it will take to recover and thus the longer period you will need to allow for growth and start again.

    The other thing people should keep in mind is that stimulus is more like an on/off switch than a dimmer switch. It isn't like more volume = more growth like a dimmer gives more light the more you turn it. Once you turn on a light switch, the light is on. Turming it on again doesnt give you more light. Its done and you stop. Hammering awat at the light switch turning it off and on and off and on is pointless. In other words, once you stimulate muscle growth, you should stop. Sitting there and hammering away at more sets will give you little to no additional return but will burn more energy and cause a need for a longer recovery period.

    With this in mind, it all comes down to a simple fact that the more often you can run the cycle, the faster you will progress and this leads is to the same conclusion as the article above - frequency should trump volume. The more volume you use, the less frequent you can progress.

    If you are training with higher intensities, I think volume really needs to be reduced more than most people think, especially if they have a higher frequency.

    I recently ran a program doing only 2 sets per body part, training half the body one day, the other half a second day and repeating so that I hit the entire body 2-3 times per week.

    I will admit that moderate intensity with low volume and high frequency surprised me in that I saw improvements in as little as 2 days after a workout...sometimes more than I would have expected. But I also have to say that over a few months I started to have over use issues. 2-3 a week may be optimal for fastest .muscle growth in some ways, but I am not sure it is optimal for continued progress. N = 1 but I have never felt so beat up from working out as I did after 2-3 months of that. Hurting hips, shoulder issues, etc....and I've never had joint issues before.
    •   
       


  6. Thanks for the post.

    I have always been a fan of Mike Mentzer's training philosophies and training programs. He built upon the Colorado program which was then essentially taken to the next level when adopted by Yates in the 1990's. The programs noted T-Nation also incorporates time under tension for the last set which is essentially the working set. Very similar to techniques leveraged by Mike Mentzer.

    I can see how this training style could do a number on the joints especially if your going heavy with free weights. I plan on doing this style for 3-4 weeks. It might make sense to cycle with a couple of weeks doing a light weight volume training focusing on two body parts each training session.

  7. I'm in week 4 of doing 4 full body workouts a week, Mon/Tues/Thurs/Fri. This was really a personal experiment and so far I have to say I love it, and my strength is going through the roof. Mon is heavy squat day, and I rotate weekly through 3x5, 3x3, 3x1 repeat. Monday and Thursdays workouts are a little more lower body focused and Tuesday/thursdays is more upper body focused. Strength, and recomp effects are through the roof.. only thing with this is i think it would be hard to use for cutting because i am STARVING all the time.

  8. Quote Originally Posted by GAINZFORDAYZ View Post
    Thanks for the post.

    I have always been a fan of Mike Mentzer's training philosophies and training programs. He built upon the Colorado program which was then essentially taken to the next level when adopted by Yates in the 1990's. The programs noted T-Nation also incorporates time under tension for the last set which is essentially the working set. Very similar to techniques leveraged by Mike Mentzer.

    I can see how this training style could do a number on the joints especially if your going heavy with free weights. I plan on doing this style for 3-4 weeks. It might make sense to cycle with a couple of weeks doing a light weight volume training focusing on two body parts each training session.
    Yeah, that's the strange thing. I've trained with Mentzer's philosophy more than any other, and I'm one of the guys on here who is almost 40 years old and has had NO signs of joint issues. I've always gone heavy. It wasn't until I started increasing volume or frequency that I started having issues. Even with much lower intensity I started having issues. Shoulders and hips had pains that just would not go away.

    Back to lifting heavier and doing less volume/frequency but higher intensity and I have no joint pain again.

    This is all N=1 though, so it may just may be me. I may just be lucky. Who knows.

    Mentzer's ideas are gold. I don't necessarily apply them 100% all the time, but he's created a filter through which I can view training philosophies and assess the logic of what works. Not even saying he is 100% right either, I play with all kinds of things, but it is interesting how many pieces of his training/philosophy show up 20 years later in a new training idea and nobody realizes it.
  •   

      
     

Similar Forum Threads

  1. Question on workload, volume, and frequency
    By colonial in forum Anabolics
    Replies: 4
    Last Post: 05-26-2012, 01:21 PM
  2. low volume, high frequency
    By Necroticism in forum Training Forum
    Replies: 130
    Last Post: 11-03-2008, 01:40 AM
  3. Arms - Intensity , Frequency, Volume
    By Lotto in forum Training Forum
    Replies: 5
    Last Post: 04-16-2008, 01:53 PM
  4. high frequency, low volume with superdrol?
    By vision in forum Anabolics
    Replies: 3
    Last Post: 03-16-2007, 07:44 PM
  5. Training Volume vs Training Frequency!! Read and think!
    By Landmonster in forum Training Forum
    Replies: 7
    Last Post: 06-01-2006, 09:12 PM
Log in
Log in