Topic of the week: Is Overtraining BS?

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  1. Quote Originally Posted by Kleshgainz View Post
    Donít think overtraining is real. Anyone who is Ďovertrainingí is just not prioritising recovery imo
    To a degree, but this is not always true. If overtraining is not real, then you can lift for six hours every day, all out, heavy weight, etc, for weeks/months and not overtrain? No amount of prioritizing recovery will make up for this. Of course, itís a silly extreme example, but it shows that overtraining is real, just perhaps not as common as some people think.
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  2. Quote Originally Posted by muscleupcrohn View Post
    To a degree, but this is not always true. If overtraining is not real, then you can lift for six hours every day, all out, heavy weight, etc, for weeks/months and not overtrain? No amount of prioritizing recovery will make up for this. Of course, it’s a silly extreme example, but it shows that overtraining is real, just perhaps not as common as some people think.
    we can test this easily.

    Squat 3x5 twice a day every day and let me know your results in a month.

    Compare it to the guy who squats a regimented training program of 2-3 x's per month. lets compare end results.
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  3. Quote Originally Posted by Dustin07 View Post
    we can test this easily.

    Squat 3x5 twice a day every day and let me know your results in a month.

    Compare it to the guy who squats a regimented training program of 2-3 x's per month. lets compare end results.
    Clearly a logical training protocol would yield better results than trying to murder my legs twice a day for a month. And letís not forget that Iíd still have to work the rest of my body in addition to twice a day leg workouts. Thereís no need to ďtestĒ this anymore than there is a need to test if eating tide pods is bad for your health.
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  4. Overtraining is real.
    Deload in an autoregulating program is key

  5. Quote Originally Posted by muscleupcrohn View Post
    Clearly a logical training protocol would yield better results than trying to murder my legs twice a day for a month. And let’s not forget that I’d still have to work the rest of my body in addition to twice a day leg workouts. There’s no need to “test” this anymore than there is a need to test if eating tide pods is bad for your health.
    Do you know a better way to cleanse a dirty mouth? Or to clean the gene pool, for that matter?
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  6. Quote Originally Posted by Dustin07 View Post
    Do you know a better way to cleanse a dirty mouth? Or to clean the gene pool, for that matter?
    Is that what they mean when they say we should "eat clean?" #DarwinAwards
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  7. So. Arms every day. Got it.

  8. Sure you can over train. Here's a simple way to do it:

    Deadlift for a set of 5, as much weight as you can handle, 5RM max
    Deadlift for a set of 5, 95% of 5RM max
    Deadlift for a set of 5, 90% of 5RM max
    Deadlift for a set of 5, 85% of 5RM max
    Deadlift for a set of 5, 80% of 5RM max
    Deadlift for a set of 5, 75% of 5RM max
    Deadlift for a set of 5, 70% of 5RM max
    Deadlift for a set of 5, 65% of 5RM max

    Do this workout every day until over trained. It shouldn't take long.

  9. I think itís real, my immune system got shot to **** when I used to cut for wrestling tournaments. 2 mat sessions a day and a weights or circuit all on restricted calories.

    I donít think you can get it from just hitting the gym though.

  10. Quote Originally Posted by skeogh View Post
    I think itís real, my immune system got shot to **** when I used to cut for wrestling tournaments. 2 mat sessions a day and a weights or circuit all on restricted calories.

    I donít think you can get it from just hitting the gym though.
    While I agree with you in that over training may weaken immune systems, I wrestled too and I know guys generally speaking are gross and unhygienic. two mat sessions a day does mean that you're being exposed to anything the other wrestlers bring to the mat so whether or not your immune system was compromised before hand, you're definitely exposed to twice as much illness risk lol.

  11. Yeah I don’t miss ring worm, but I found when I was going up a weight class I had a much more healthy immune system and I didn’t get nearly as much injuries.

  12. Quote Originally Posted by skeogh View Post
    Yeah I don’t miss ring worm, but I found when I was going up a weight class I had a much more healthy immune system and I didn’t get nearly as much injuries.
    same. when I wrestled, I was light. I was in the 148 class and they said I could drop down to 141. I went up instead, lol.

  13. Everyone has a maximum recoverable volume. This will increase as you increase sleep, calories and other recovery methods however it is not infinite.

    If you train so much that you cannot provide a stimulus the next time you train then you are over trained.
    For most people this is not a problem, they can just reduce the number of sets they do for a month then start working back up again.

    I have a friend who's chest and triceps are permanently broken from excessive volume and he can only handle 2 weeks of overload training before he needs to deload on those muscle groups - so it's very real and can have permanent effects if you're really dumb

  14. Quote Originally Posted by AlexPowell View Post
    Everyone has a maximum recoverable volume. This will increase as you increase sleep, calories and other recovery methods however it is not infinite.

    If you train so much that you cannot provide a stimulus the next time you train then you are over trained.
    For most people this is not a problem, they can just reduce the number of sets they do for a month then start working back up again.

    I have a friend who's chest and triceps are permanently broken from excessive volume and he can only handle 2 weeks of overload training before he needs to deload on those muscle groups - so it's very real and can have permanent effects if you're really dumb
    What in the fukkkk..... hooooooow!? The thought of over training blows my mind. I split routine

    Monday- Back
    Tuesday- Chest
    Wednesday- Legs
    Thursday- Shoulder/Arms

    Work out for about an hour and a half.
    Does that sound excessive?

  15. Quote Originally Posted by Dthcore View Post
    What in the fukkkk..... hooooooow!? The thought of over training blows my mind. I split routine

    Monday- Back
    Tuesday- Chest
    Wednesday- Legs
    Thursday- Shoulder/Arms

    Work out for about an hour and a half.
    Does that sound excessive?
    Depends on how many sets you're doing. Above 20 sets per week per body part and you're probably pushing it.
    However the fact that you're even asking the question makes me believe you're fine, lol. It's hard to over train on split routines as well because who honestly does 20 sets of legs on one day?

    Although, I shouldn't say that because I do know people that have permanently ****ed their chest and arms from doing stupid 20+ sets arm training once or twice a week for years on end

    If you're getting stronger then add sets each week. When you get to the point where you don't feel like training / can't add weight then half the sets for a month then start adding sets again week 5. This is bodybuilding 101 but many people forget this and get stuck in the trap of doing the same thing each week or just changing exercises but keeping volume the same

  16. It depends on the intensity. I do 64 sets per muscle group each week and progress fine.

  17. Quote Originally Posted by AlexPowell View Post
    Everyone has a maximum recoverable volume. This will increase as you increase sleep, calories and other recovery methods however it is not infinite.

    If you train so much that you cannot provide a stimulus the next time you train then you are over trained.
    For most people this is not a problem, they can just reduce the number of sets they do for a month then start working back up again.

    I have a friend who's chest and triceps are permanently broken from excessive volume and he can only handle 2 weeks of overload training before he needs to deload on those muscle groups - so it's very real and can have permanent effects if you're really dumb
    It likely isn't permanent damage - everyone has a different ability to recover and adapt. Some people need very little to overtrain, some people need more than you can imagine and most people fall in between.

    Plus, we often discount other parts of our life effecting this - jobs can take a huge toll even if they are not physical. Being essentially restrained in a chair all day and trying to accomplish tasks will have a huge toll. Being restrained itself is a HUGE stressor and it isn't exactly physical.

    I have found that if I am training bodyparts twice a week I can only tolerate a very small amount of volume even if I pull back in the intensity a bit. Even at that, after about 4-6 weeks I start noting symptoms of over training. It isn't always that I'm not getting stronger at first...i can continue to get stronger but I start dreading workouts that I loved a couple weeks before and really drag. My workouts also take longer and longer to complete.

    But most people on here claim they have seen their best results with 2x a week frequency and much higher volume than I use. Granted, some people have chemical assistance, but that aside - everyone will have a different tolerance to exercise.

  18. Yes. Overtraining, training too fast for the body to heal, is bad and counterproductive. You will lose muscle, injure yourself, and possibly get sick.

    No its not BS. Its a fact

  19. Overtraining*occurs when a person exceeds their body's ability to recover from strenuous*exercise.[1]*Overtraining can be described as a point where a person may have a decrease in performance and plateauing as a result of failure to consistently perform at a certain level or training load; a load which exceeds their recovery capacity.

    -Wikipedia

  20. Okay so I think Iím good to go because I definitely recover. I give myself quite a bit of time to recover from my training days.

    I do around 30 sets per muscle group, excluding biceps. My rep range is usually 10-12.

    And Iím literally getting stronger every season or stamina is higher.

    Iím not an enhanced athlete, but I am coming back from years off and muscle memory is serving me well! More on strength than size though. 6 months in lol

  21. If you've overtrained or rather overreached. I know somebody posted up some literature separating the two by definition and the difference really only lies in the severity. I've overreached a number of times (several weeks feeling drained, and losing muscle strength,size, insatiable thirst, insomnia and/or excessive tiredness, elevated resting heart rate etc) in the past. I can now tell just based on how I feel when to back off on training intensity. Typically once every 4-5 weeks I'll need a deload and it's usually after I make unusually fast progress from one workout to the next that I'm on the brink. Prolonged muscle soreness also returns prior to OR. Subtle cues in the way you feel which you can familiarize yourself with over time are to be listened to because lets face it programming itself does not encompass changes in our lives outside the gym which can make it difficult to gauge our recovery ability theoretically.

  22. I believe it is. Best results I ever had was training the same muscle everyday for three months

  23. Quote Originally Posted by irone93 View Post
    I believe it is. Best results I ever had was training the same muscle everyday for three months
    So now work your whole body with double the volume every day, twice a day and tell me you donít get overtrained. You may say that overtraining isnít common, or as prevalent as people say, but surely it exists at some extreme level. Very rare doesnít make it a myth or BS.
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  24. Quote Originally Posted by HIT4ME View Post
    It likely isn't permanent damage - everyone has a different ability to recover and adapt. Some people need very little to overtrain, some people need more than you can imagine and most people fall in between.

    Plus, we often discount other parts of our life effecting this - jobs can take a huge toll even if they are not physical. Being essentially restrained in a chair all day and trying to accomplish tasks will have a huge toll. Being restrained itself is a HUGE stressor and it isn't exactly physical.

    I have found that if I am training bodyparts twice a week I can only tolerate a very small amount of volume even if I pull back in the intensity a bit. Even at that, after about 4-6 weeks I start noting symptoms of over training. It isn't always that I'm not getting stronger at first...i can continue to get stronger but I start dreading workouts that I loved a couple weeks before and really drag. My workouts also take longer and longer to complete.

    But most people on here claim they have seen their best results with 2x a week frequency and much higher volume than I use. Granted, some people have chemical assistance, but that aside - everyone will have a different tolerance to exercise.
    Yes, Exactly.
    The main thing to remember is that everyone's max recoverable volume will be different, however it definitely exists and exceeding it for several months on end will cause long term damage. Most people don't go anywhere near that however I do see people in the gym riding that line a bit too much, especially on arms work!

  25. Quote Originally Posted by muscleupcrohn View Post
    So now work your whole body with double the volume every day, twice a day and tell me you donít get overtrained. You may say that overtraining isnít common, or as prevalent as people say, but surely it exists at some extreme level. Very rare doesnít make it a myth or BS.
    He was joking right?
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