How much bicep work is too much?

[Maverick02]

I need some advice here about bicep work. I know they get hit a lot during back training. I do back/bi's the same day starting with back, so I know they get a good amount of work before I even start my bicep routine. I'm a little concerned I'm over training my biceps but I could be wrong. That's why I'm asking you guys. Back starts with body weight pullups 2x12, then heavy wide lat pulldown (overhand grip) 3x8-12, then two arm long bar row 3x-8-12 and are one arm db rows 3x8-12. Mind you, I'm lifting heavy enough where failure occurs in the 8 to 12 rep range.

Biceps starts with 3x8 of BB curls, the inlcine db curls 2x8-12, then either hammer curls with db or hammer curls with the rope 3x8-12 on the cable macine and lastly I'll burn out with either a light cable curl or some thick bands. Arms are spent after this workout. I think it might be a bit much but I don't know. Back and arms don't get touched and other day of the week except for my one back/bi day. Advice is much appreciated.

 

[mtinsideout]

I used to do something similar with biceps and then i incorporated forearm and grip training on top of that... It turned out to be a bad move and I believe is part of the reason I got tendonitis. If you've been doing this routine and you haven't had any issues I wouldn't worry about it but if you plan on adding any more training the requires forearms and/or biceps just be careful. Lately I haven't done anything more than curls and chin ups once a week for biceps. Any other work my biceps get is from rows and other back workouts.

 

[Touey]

There are so many different ways to skin the cat but for me I bring total focus to biceps alone for training upon their day, and normally by end of session am glad they have a day unto their own

 

[Maverick02]

Yeah I think in the past two or three weeks I've been experiencing a little bit of tendon pain. Nothing bad, just irritating at times that only last for a second or two. Before this, I was pairing my chest and bis, tris and shoulders and back by itself and I think that grouping was the culrpit because I was hitting my bi's twice a week so my joints started to hurt a bit. I'm good now with what I'm doing, I just frequently get paranoid about overtraining such a small muscle group.

Touey, I've done bi's alone before and it does take a lot of stress off the rest of my body.

 

[mtinsideout]

Yeah I think in the past two or three weeks I've been experiencing a little bit of tendon pain. Nothing bad, just irritating at times that only last for a second or two. Before this, I was pairing my chest and bis, tris and shoulders and back by itself and I think that grouping was the culrpit because I was hitting my bi's twice a week so my joints started to hurt a bit. I'm good now with what I'm doing, I just frequently get paranoid about overtraining such a small muscle group.

Touey, I've done bi's alone before and it does take a lot of stress off the rest of my body.

Yea I got the same thing for about a month but I just brushed it off. If you feel that pain it is a warning that something bad is about to happen so I'd give the arms a few days rest and re-adjust the workout as needed until you don't get that minor pain. I also felt the pain was worse on days when I had used pre workouts with agmatine/cit mal... Not sure if the pump had anything to do with the pain or not

 

[Maverick02]

Yea I got the same thing for about a month but I just brushed it off. If you feel that pain it is a warning that something bad is about to happen so I'd give the arms a few days rest and re-adjust the workout as needed until you don't get that minor pain. I also felt the pain was worse on days when I had used pre workouts with agmatine/cit mal... Not sure if the pump had anything to do with the pain or not

Yeah I gotcha. No, the pump from my pre isn't an issue because it's not a huge pump. I've just mostly been concerned with the amount of work the bicep is getting but I suppose it's not as bad as I think. I look at some other guys routines and think to myself, there's no way you can grow by doing all of that stuff.

 

[rodefeeh]

Haven't you ever seen Arnold's bicep workout? lol

 

[Type O Hero]

I need some advice here about bicep work. I know they get hit a lot during back training. I do back/bi's the same day starting with back, so I know they get a good amount of work before I even start my bicep routine. I'm a little concerned I'm over training my biceps but I could be wrong. That's why I'm asking you guys. Back starts with body weight pullups 2x12, then heavy wide lat pulldown (overhand grip) 3x8-12, then two arm long bar row 3x-8-12 and are one arm db rows 3x8-12. Mind you, I'm lifting heavy enough where failure occurs in the 8 to 12 rep range.

Biceps starts with 3x8 of BB curls, the inlcine db curls 2x8-12, then either hammer curls with db or hammer curls with the rope 3x8-12 on the cable macine and lastly I'll burn out with either a light cable curl or some thick bands. Arms are spent after this workout. I think it might be a bit much but I don't know. Back and arms don't get touched and other day of the week except for my one back/bi day. Advice is much appreciated.

I go by pump. If I work back and want to do some biceps isolation at the end, I go by pump.. Usually for me that means 2-5ish total sets.. I average 3 quality sets. Once my pump doesn't feel at it's peak anymore, I stop and flex for a while, then stretch. I'm not saying when my pump is gone, I'm saying when it doesn't feel at peak anymore.. If that makes any sense lol.. Keep in mind that I really work my back hard. My biceps get a lot of work during back training. 2-3 sets for biceps is all I need.

 

[fasttaker]

Your doing as many exercises for your biceps as you do for your entire back? Anyway, you can cut down and see what happens, or try them on a different day and see what happens. Or, do half of your curls with Back, and half on a different day (spreading the workload out through the week). You might actually get a better idea of your strength progression if you do them on a non-pulling day. As long as you are getting stronger, your plan is working. But remember it's hard for anyone to get really strong on curls anyway. One final thought: Reversing your grip on pulldowns and doing chins instead of pull-ups might be all the biceps work you need for a little. while. I don't know though. I'm just making guesses and playing around.

 

[Mystere3]

I've found my biceps only grow with huge volume. I train them at least 3x a week in some way; on arms day, on back day a couple days later, and a bit on my consolidation day. I used to only do 10-12 sets on biceps without much in the way of gains but I've put 1" on them in a year with this routine.

 

[PaulBlack]

I've found my biceps only grow with huge volume. I train them at least 3x a week in some way; on arms day, on back day a couple days later, and a bit on my consolidation day. I used to only do 10-12 sets on biceps without much in the way of gains but I've put 1" on them in a year with this routine.

Can I ask, how much "overall" BW have you gained in that time?

 

[nicksox15]

I do them on back day as well and hit them based on how they're feeling after the back portion of my day. If they're not feeling particularly pumped I'll hit em for a few sets. On a particular heavy and hard back day I'll just skip em all together.

 

[Maverick02]

I go by pump. If I work back and want to do some biceps isolation at the end, I go by pump.. Usually for me that means 2-5ish total sets.. I average 3 quality sets. Once my pump doesn't feel at it's peak anymore, I stop and flex for a while, then stretch. I'm not saying when my pump is gone, I'm saying when it doesn't feel at peak anymore.. If that makes any sense lol.. Keep in mind that I really work my back hard. My biceps get a lot of work during back training. 2-3 sets for biceps is all I need.

I think I need to go with this concept right here. It gets to the point where I feel a good pump and they're worked pretty good, but if I keep going (just to finish the routine) it feels like the pump and amount of work I've done has diminished, if that makes an sense at all. Almost like there's a sweet spot and going past that spot only does me harm. I don't know though. If this helps at all, I'm a leaner guy, eating 3500 or more cals a day to gain. Weigh 178 at 6'3" with 12% body fat, so it's hard for me to gain a lot of weight. Smaller muscles on me don't grow like the big ones, but whose does?

I tried them on a different day then back for a good while too and didn't see any significant difference in progress. Seems to go better with back day.

 

[Mystere3]

Can I ask, how much "overall" BW have you gained in that time?

About 13 lb in that year.

 

[Torobestia]

I have to be honest, my best bicep growth was when I had a dedicated arm day (triceps and biceps, though I used a lot of compound movements for triceps) and/or when I did biceps before the rest of my workout. When I combined biceps with back, the growth stopped. When I do biceps at the end of a rigorous benching day, they don't grow, either. But if I did them say at the beginning of a leg workout, they would respond. There's something about working the bicep after it (or you) is exhausted I think that makes it less responsive to a training stimulus.

In terms of volume, I would say 3 different exercises of 3-5 sets of varying rep ranges per week is effective. You can split that however you'd like throughout the week.

 

[Maverick02]

I have to be honest, my best bicep growth was when I had a dedicated arm day (triceps and biceps, though I used a lot of compound movements for triceps) and/or when I did biceps before the rest of my workout. When I combined biceps with back, the growth stopped. When I do biceps at the end of a rigorous benching day, they don't grow, either. But if I did them say at the beginning of a leg workout, they would respond. There's something about working the bicep after it (or you) is exhausted I think that makes it less responsive to a training stimulus.

In terms of volume, I would say 3 different exercises of 3-5 sets of varying rep ranges per week is effective. You can split that however you'd like throughout the week.

You make a good point. So did you always to tris and bis on the same day or whatever you felt like pairing them with, as long as they exclusively got worked out? The chest and bi day didn't really beneifit me in any way, so that's no option.

 

[Torobestia]

You make a good point. So did you always to tris and bis on the same day or whatever you felt like pairing them with, as long as they exclusively got worked out? The chest and bi day didn't really beneifit me in any way, so that's no option.

I've paired biceps with back and with other upper body work towards the end of the workout, and I've paired it with triceps or with legs but at the beginning of the workout. When my biceps were at their best it was when I was able to do one exercise fresh, either because it was one of the first workouts during my arm day or because it was the first workout on my leg day a la DC Training.

 

[Maverick02]

I've paired biceps with back and with other upper body work towards the end of the workout, and I've paired it with triceps or with legs but at the beginning of the workout. When my biceps were at their best it was when I was able to do one exercise fresh, either because it was one of the first workouts during my arm day or because it was the first workout on my leg day a la DC Training.

I'll give that a shot. Having a fresh start for biceps so I can give it everything I got. I'm fatigued after back, so I know I'm not giving it everything towards the end of my routine.

 

[CC10]

I'm a big fan of time an tension for biceps reps an volume...don't worry I much for over training as long your not retarded with it.

 

[throneof]

Everybody's different. Have to figure out what works best for you. I do about 6-9 sets total for the entire month... Not much at all

 

[PaulBlack]

Everybody's different. Have to figure out what works best for you. I do about 6-9 sets total for the entire month... Not much at all

Yeah, I have not really put much effort into direct bicep work in the last 5-8 or so years, outside of lots of heavy back work or pulling towards the torso. What that approach has gotten me!?, is bigger arms in the long run, gaining strength/muscle in arms and a bigger thicker upper and even lower back and erectors.
I do curls monthly more for a test of strength to see where I am, and thus far I have not lost any real strength there either.
I might be inclined to think some reverse curls, might be a better adjunct (for me anyway) to hit more upper forearm/strength.

 

[Maverick02]

Yeah, I have not really put much effort into direct bicep work in the last 5-8 or so years, outside of lots of heavy back work or pulling towards the torso. What that approach has gotten me!?, is bigger arms in the long run, gaining strength/muscle in arms and a bigger thicker upper and even lower back and erectors.
I do curls monthly more for a test of strength to see where I am, and thus far I have not lost any real strength there either.
I might be inclined to think some reverse curls, might be a better adjunct (for me anyway) to hit more upper forearm/strength.

That seems to be the consensus around here is less direct training. I think I'm going to still work them directly, just take down the volume of training until I get a good pump and let it be. I know they get a ton of work from my back training, so just a little direct work on a different day might be the key for me. I've really tried everything but that. Not that I'm not getting stronger and they have grown. It just seems as though they have come to a halt in the past months. I'll give this a shot.

 

[Mystere3]

I think it depends what you're looking for, I guess. A lot of this is genetic anyways; I've always had huge arms relative to my size and lots of direct training have only made them grow more, others might not get results from anuthing, even direct pgf2a injections.

 

[Maverick02]

I think it depends what you're looking for, I guess. A lot of this is genetic anyways; I've always had huge arms relative to my size and lots of direct training have only made them grow more, others might not get results from anuthing, even direct pgf2a injections.

I have good arms proportional to my body size. It's always been hard for me to gain period though. I just realized after a good while of eating 3500 cals a day, that it isn't cutting it anymore. Gotta push for 4k a day now. The only muscle that seems to just grow and grow on me are my triceps, strangely enough.

 

[fasttaker]

I have good arms proportional to my body size. It's always been hard for me to gain period though. I just realized after a good while of eating 3500 cals a day, that it isn't cutting it anymore. Gotta push for 4k a day now. The only muscle that seems to just grow and grow on me are my triceps, strangely enough.

You're 6'4'', weight training, and only eating 3500 calories a day. If you really are just 174 lbs, then eating may be your problem. When you add another 20 lbs of bodyweight, your biceps will be bigger too.

 

[Maverick02]

You're 6'4'', weight training, and only eating 3500 calories a day. If you really are just 174 lbs, then eating may be your problem. When you add another 20 lbs of bodyweight, your biceps will be bigger too.

You're right on that one. I started today with the 4k diet so I'll see how that goes. Went to the doctor yesterday and he weighed me at 180 on what he says is the most accurate scale he's used. I double checked at work (a hospital) and I weighed the same. I'm going up just very slowly, just not as fast as I could.

 

[PaulBlack]

That seems to be the consensus around here is less direct training. I think I'm going to still work them directly, just take down the volume of training until I get a good pump and let it be. I know they get a ton of work from my back training, so just a little direct work on a different day might be the key for me. I've really tried everything but that. Not that I'm not getting stronger and they have grown. It just seems as though they have come to a halt in the past months. I'll give this a shot.

Well, nothing at all wrong with working the arms and or biceps directly, especially if one has certain goals.
There is also something emotionally moving, about a great set of curls, I will give you that.

A few points from my experiences have been that I have sizes that seem to correlate with my overall BW. I could easily hold onto 18"s if my BW did not drop much below #205-#210. If my BW went under #190 it seemed my arms would just drop down to 17" maybe 17 1/2" and if I was up over #230BW, (and just doing my heavy rowing and back work) my arms go up to 18 1/2"- 18 3/4. They were obviously the largest, when I weighed #260-#265, but I was rather uncomfortable at that weight and sloppy looking.
So eating for me and of course overall BW has a direct impact on me adding arm size, along with the heavy work.

A few years back, I had an argument about not curling with a Hollywood" stunt man on a differing forum. He just said, "Jesus bud, just do a few sets of curls and STFU...! And I will admit, he was probably right. When in doubt, hit some arms.

 

[Maverick02]

Well, nothing at all wrong with working the arms and or biceps directly, especially if one has certain goals.
There is also something emotionally moving, about a great set of curls, I will give you that.

A few points from my experiences have been that I have sizes that seem to correlate with my overall BW. I could easily hold onto 18"s if my BW did not drop much below #205-#210. If my BW went under #190 it seemed my arms would just drop down to 17" maybe 17 1/2" and if I was up over #230BW, (and just doing my heavy rowing and back work) my arms go up to 18 1/2"- 18 3/4. They were obviously the largest, when I weighed #260-#265, but I was rather uncomfortable at that weight and sloppy looking.
So eating for me and of course overall BW has a direct impact on me adding arm size, along with the heavy work.

A few years back, I had an argument about not curling with a Hollywood" stunt man on a differing forum. He just said, "Jesus bud, just do a few sets of curls and STFU...! And I will admit, he was probably right. When in doubt, hit some arms.

Yeah I totally understand where you're coming from. By no means would I completely cut out direct bicep work because after all, it's my favorite to work. I just need not go past the point of no return in my mind. That point where I'm good and pumped and I go beyond that. Sometimes if I do more than that initial butt kicking burn and pump, it seems to trail off the more I do do keeping it at that peak moment seems to be the right thing to do for me at least. I know everyone is different. Fasttaker has a point too. My cals everyday need to be up for there to be another benefactor in bicep growth. Sometimes I obsess over BF% AND size. Considering my metabolism I don't need to be worrying too much about the fat and just get some solid muscle on me first. I'm getting there but slowly.

 

[Type O Hero]

I've found my biceps only grow with huge volume. I train them at least 3x a week in some way; on arms day, on back day a couple days later, and a bit on my consolidation day. I used to only do 10-12 sets on biceps without much in the way of gains but I've put 1" on them in a year with this routine.

Lol this is like the opposite of what I said. It really comes down to finding what works best for you. This takes time.

 

[PaulBlack]

I just need not go past the point of no return in my mind. That point where I'm good and pumped and I go beyond that.

Personally, I do not think that doing a little too much, is a horrible thing or say, will have you actually losing size. It just makes very little difference and only adds to the extra work, perhaps not needed.
The biceps are a small group that recovers fairly quick. A few days or so IMO. So, measuring it out to try and get it perfect, I feel is not truly necessary.

 

[fasttaker]

Personally, I do not think that doing a little too much, is a horrible thing or say, will have you actually losing size. It just makes very little difference and only adds to the extra work, perhaps not needed.
The biceps are a small group that recovers fairly quick. A few days or so IMO. So, measuring it out to try and get it perfect, I feel is not truly necessarily.

This guy is always right on the money.

As an aside, The new MD has Victor Martinez talking about this very topic. He approached some guy when he was younger about training arms, because the guy had the kind of huge arms he wanted. The guy was like, "kid I only train my biceps directly 2x per month."

But like PB said, it's a small group and it doesn't matter much if you do a little too much or not quite enough. If you're progressing on your other lifts, that's proof enough that a ton of curls are fairly inconsequential.

 

[Maverick02]

This guy is always right on the money.

As an aside, The new MD has Victor Martinez talking about this very topic. He approached some guy when he was younger about training arms, because the guy had the kind of huge arms he wanted. The guy was like, "kid I only train my biceps directly 2x per month."

But like PB said, it's a small group and it doesn't matter much if you do a little too much or not quite enough. If you're progressing on your other lifts, that's proof enough that a ton of curls are fairly inconsequential.

Yeah that was my concern, it being such a small muscle group. You make a valid point though and really prgressing on everything else (like I am) is what matters. Now, it's time to eat!

 

[amarula]

Well, nothing at all wrong with working the arms and or biceps directly, especially if one has certain goals.
There is also something emotionally moving, about a great set of curls, I will give you that.

A few points from my experiences have been that I have sizes that seem to correlate with my overall BW. I could easily hold onto 18"s if my BW did not drop much below #205-#210. If my BW went under #190 it seemed my arms would just drop down to 17" maybe 17 1/2" and if I was up over #230BW, (and just doing my heavy rowing and back work) my arms go up to 18 1/2"- 18 3/4. They were obviously the largest, when I weighed #260-#265, but I was rather uncomfortable at that weight and sloppy looking.
So eating for me and of course overall BW has a direct impact on me adding arm size, along with the heavy work.

A few years back, I had an argument about not curling with a Hollywood" stunt man on a differing forum. He just said, "Jesus bud, just do a few sets of curls and STFU...! And I will admit, he was probably right. When in doubt, hit some arms.

I'm with 190 lbs and my arms are 16 and 1/2 (and my tríceps are 2/3 of the arm size). Bíceps been always my quest. They grow, if the rst of my body grows too, so the proportions remains the same. The only thing that I still haven't tried is the CT Fletcher kind of training, lol. I tried to avoid direct training and things got worse. I guess genetics rules in this departement...

 

[Mystere3]

I am a big proponent of direct arm work, I'm ~230 and have 19.5" arms fwiw.