Something that's been on my mind since day one.

[Heavyappetite]

So i have a question... what do you do once you finish training?Do you take your shake directly after weights or cardio?

I'm curious to see everyone's approach to the bottom options!

1. Weights, PWO shake, abs, cardio.
2. Weights, abs, PWO shake, cardio.
3. Weights, abs, cardio, PWO shake.

and why?

Again.. just curious

 

[Moose45]

#3 because in that scenario the workout is over!!

 

[Heavyappetite]

#3 because in that scenario the workout is over!!

but then i think... should i be getting my shake in quicker for a more responsive insulin spike directly after my weights?

Cause otherwise abs 20 min then cardio 20 min - that's 40 min after a heavy session...will i get the same insulin sensitivity 40 minutes after my weights than i would directly after?

Maybe i'm too caught up on broscience?

Curiosity is a b****.

 

[Sean1332]

stop thinkin so much. waiting for your shake after abs n cardio won't have a negative impact on your recovery from lifting. there's times where I'm unable to eat over an hour after my session and I still grow and recover. I'd be more concerned with what/how much I'm consuming than immediately after. are you having carbs post workout?

 

[Heavyappetite]

stop thinkin so much. waiting for your shake after abs n cardio won't have a negative impact on your recovery from lifting. there's times where I'm unable to eat over an hour after my session and I still grow and recover. I'd be more concerned with what/how much I'm consuming than immediately after. are you having carbs post workout?

Yeah standard - i always think about it. Just curious though.

Yeah a carb blend with whey, glutamine, bcaa caps and fish oils directly PWO.

Only added in the PWO carbs not long ago though - I was following George Farah's idea of no carbs PWO for a while because he says it blunts your natural GH release directly PWO.

The Pro Maker is a smart dude.

 

[Rodja]

I usually go home and lay on the couch for an hour until the nausea subsides. After that, I eat.

 

[Heavyappetite]

I usually go home and lay on the couch for an hour until the nausea subsides. After that, I eat.

lol

 

[Sean1332]

smart man Rodja

 

[OnionKnight]

bigger question is why do you end every workout with abs and cardio? r u on of those desperate fat dudes?

 

[asooneyeonig]

4) workout (i do not separate weights, abs, and cardio) and sometimes i eat afterwards, sometimes i just go to bed.

 

[Heavyappetite]

bigger question is why do you end every workout with abs and cardio? r u on of those desperate fat dudes?

I don't. That's just an example on the days where i do abs and cardio. (haven't done either in 3 weeks)

...and yes i am one of those desperate fat dudes.

 

[OnionKnight]

I don't. That's just an example on the days where i do abs and cardio. (haven't done either in 3 weeks)

...and yes i am one of those desperate fat dudes.

well youre overthinking it. a preworkout shake isnt some miracle steroid shake, nor will it diminish the effectiveness of a workout. its just protein. if you get enough throughout the day from your diet, you dont need a shake

 

[Heavyappetite]

well youre overthinking it. a preworkout shake isnt some miracle steroid shake, nor will it diminish the effectiveness of a workout. its just protein. if you get enough throughout the day from your diet, you dont need a shake

I know this, I'm talking about post workout shake and the "anabolic window".This post is just to see what other people do in regards to this cause i'm curious.

 

[Rodja]

I know this, I'm talking about post workout shake and the "anabolic window".This post is just to see what other people do in regards to this cause i'm curious.

The anabolic window can last up to 48 hours.

 

[OnionKnight]

I know this, I'm talking about post workout shake and the "anabolic window".This post is just to see what other people do in regards to this cause i'm curious.

there is no anabolic window. thats what in trying to get at. thats broscience created by supplement companies to sell their protein shakes for that purpose. and its worked for over a decade now

 

[Heavyappetite]

there is no anabolic window. thats what in trying to get at. thats broscience created by supplement companies to sell their protein shakes for that purpose. and its worked for over a decade now

Damn... i just ordered 12 x Anabolic Halo's by Muscletech

 

[Heavyappetite]

The anabolic window can last up to 48 hours.

I should definitely stop reading "Muscular Development" and "Flex".

 

[Jiigzz]

I should definitely stop reading "Muscular Development" and "Flex".

Yes, I would suggest doing that.

After my workout I will have a BCAA shake with Leucine added then follow that up with a big PWO meal. Reason being mTOR activation and restoring protein balance (CHO PWO to minimise protein degradation followed by protein).

Just one protocol of many.

 

[R1balla]

no science behind this statement whatsoever but i like to take BCAAs or a hydrolyzed protein immediately post weight training. If i do cardio, I will drink it before cardio and/or abs. once i get home I have a meal. I usually make my shake an hour after breakfast.

 

[Heavyappetite]

Yes, I would suggest doing that. After my workout I will have a BCAA shake with Leucine added then follow that up with a big PWO meal. Reason being mTOR activation and restoring protein balance (CHO PWO to minimise protein degradation followed by protein). Just one protocol of many.

Interesting stuff... this is the type of thing i like to read about. So you wouldn't recommend carbs in a shake PWO? Also when you say BCAA shake with added leucine do you mean only those two or do you use whey as well?I used to have Humapro + Chain'd out post work out. Until i had to sell my car to finance my Humapro purchases.

 

[Heavyappetite]

no science behind this statement whatsoever but i like to take BCAAs or a hydrolyzed protein immediately post weight training. If i do cardio, I will drink it before cardio and/or abs. once i get home I have a meal. I usually make my shake an hour after breakfast.

Yeah this is what i wanted to see.. what everyone post workout protocol is.

Thanks dude. Mine is pretty similar with a few goodies added in.

 

[Jiigzz]

Interesting stuff... this is the type of thing i like to read about. So you wouldn't recommend carbs in a shake PWO? Also when you say BCAA shake with added leucine do you mean only those two or do you use whey as well?I used to have Humapro + Chain'd out post work out. Until i had to sell my car to finance my Humapro purchases.

CHO=carbohydrate, so yes include that. For me, my entire PWO meal is 1 litre of Dark Blue milk (35g of protein and 50g of CHO) alongside BCAA and Leucine (BCAAs at a 2:1:1 ratio and Lecuine at around 5g). Most likely that will end up leucine being above saturation but its cheap so I don't concern myself over it.

 

[Heavyappetite]

CHO=carbohydrate, so yes include that. For me, my entire PWO meal is 1 litre of Dark Blue milk (35g of protein and 50g of CHO) alongside BCAA and Leucine (BCAAs at a 2:1:1 ratio and Lecuine at around 5g). Most likely that will end up leucine being above saturation but its cheap so I don't concern myself over it.

Haha I was wondering what CHO was.

Dark Blue milk... Is that a brand or a type?
Might google it and see what the deal is.

 

[Jiigzz]

Haha I was wondering what CHO was.

Dark Blue milk... Is that a brand or a type?
Might google it and see what the deal is.

Type. Dark blue lid (not sure how the US packages milk, but it just means full fat).

Haha yeah my bad, i'm just used to seeing it shortened in text books that way

 

[AdonisBelt]

^ anabolic window is a myth. There is no most important meal. Simple carbs aren't special after working out. Protein digestion rate doesn't matter either, and you shouldn't waste money in glutamine. Most glutamine is absorbed by the tissue of your small intestine aka pointless!

Just focus on reaching your macronutrients, staying consistent, get rest , and be patient. Anything else is extra .

Peace.

 

[Heavyappetite]

^ anabolic window is a myth. There is no most important meal. Simple carbs aren't special after working out. Protein digestion rate doesn't matter either, and you shouldn't waste money in glutamine. Most glutamine is absorbed by the tissue of your small intestine aka pointless!

Just focus on reaching your macronutrients, staying consistent, get rest , and be patient. Anything else is extra .

Peace.

Some sound advice. Thanks.

What do you do post workout?

 

[Jiigzz]

^ anabolic window is a myth. There is no most important meal. Simple carbs aren't special after working out. Protein digestion rate doesn't matter either, and you shouldn't waste money in glutamine. Most glutamine is absorbed by the tissue of your small intestine aka pointless!

Just focus on reaching your macronutrients, staying consistent, get rest , and be patient. Anything else is extra .

Peace.

I disagree.

Insulin infusion decreases protein degradation post workout (aids in restoring protein balance which can be done without protein intake but only post workout) . Intravenous amino acid has a stimulatory effect on muscle protein synthesis independant of the insulin effect. BCAAs post workout also increase the muscles sensitivity to the protein stimulatory effects of insulin (hence why a combination of a CHO and BCAA conatining beverage or meal is appropriate). In addition, there also appears to be a potentialtion of amino acid transport into the muscle after an acute bout of exercise ----> Hyperaminoacidemia (following amino acid intake post workout) has been shown to further enhance amino acid transport and muscle proteim synthesis post workout.

CHO have an interactive effect with aminos that enhance protein synthesis and decreasing protein degradation..

This is without even delving into the effects of mTOR activation and the inhibition of epsilon subunit of eukaryotic initiation factor 2B that begins the translation process

 

[Heavyappetite]

I disagree.

Insulin infusion decreases protein degradation post workout (aids in restoring protein balance which can be done without protein intake but only post workout) . Intravenous amino acid has a stimulatory effect on muscle protein synthesis independant of the insulin effect. BCAAs post workout also increase the muscles sensitivity to the protein stimulatory effects of insulin (hence why a combination of a CHO and BCAA conatining beverage or meal is appropriate). In addition, there also appears to be a potentialtion of amino acid transport into the muscle after an acute bout of exercise ----> Hyperaminoacidemia (following amino acid intake post workout) has been shown to further enhance amino acid transport and muscle proteim synthesis post workout.

CHO have an interactive effect with aminos that enhance protein synthesis and decreasing protein degradation..

This is without even delving into the effects of mTOR activation and the inhibition of epsilon subunit of eukaryotic initiation factor 2B that begins the translation process

Mind..

Blown.

Awesome info.

 

[PaulBlack]

What Sean, Rodja, Onion said. Don't overthink this stuff, you'll get paralysis by analysis and stump gains.

Remember that supplement companies ie: shakes, want to sell you stuff first and foremost. That is why they are in business. Making it seem like supplements are the most important thing to lifting gains. They are an adjunct only. It is really simple... lift and eat good natural foods first. So replace that "from day one thought" you had, with adding #10-#30 to your squat this month. ;-) Rinse & repeat

 

[napalm]

I disagree.

Insulin infusion decreases protein degradation post workout (aids in restorng protein balance which can be done without protein intake but only post workout) . Intravenous amino acid has a stimulatory effect on muscle protein synthesis independant of the insulin effect. BCAAs post workout also increase the muscles sensitivity to the protein stimulatory effects of insulin (hence why a combination of a CHO and BCAA conatining beverage or meal is appropriate). In addition, there also appears to be a potentialtion of amino acid transport into the muscle after an acute bout of exercise ----> Hyperaminoacidemia (following amino acid intake post workout) has been shown to further enhance amino acid transport and muscle proteim synthesis post workout.

CHO have an interactive effect with aminos that enhance protein synthesis and decreasing protein degradation..

This is without even delving into the effects of mTOR activation and the inhibition of epsilon subunit of eukaryotic initiation factor 2B that begins the translation process

^^^^this

Great info jiigz...

 

[Heavyappetite]

What Sean, Rodja, Onion said. Don't overthink this stuff, you'll get paralysis by analysis and stump gains.

Remember that supplement companies ie: shakes, want to sell you stuff first and foremost. That is why they are in business. Making it seem like supplements are the most important thing to lifting gains. They are an adjunct only. It is really simple... lift and eat good natural foods first. So replace that "from day one thought" you had, with adding #10-#30 to your squat this month. ;-) Rinse & repeat

Yeah i know what you're saying. Ive got everything going good at the moment.

Was just curious about other people's takes on this particular window of time.

 

[mikeg313]

So i have a question... what do you do once you finish training?

I'm curious to see everyone's approach to the bottom options!

I couldn't answer this because I'm a top ;-)

 

[Heavyappetite]

I couldn't answer this because I'm a top ;-)

We know you want to say it...

 

[PaulBlack]

Was just curious about other people's takes on this particular window of time.

Gotcha...
And I do have a shake or some food, usually anywhere from 15 mins to 1 hour after a W/O.

 

[AdonisBelt]

I disagree.

Insulin infusion decreases protein degradation post workout (aids in restoring protein balance which can be done without protein intake but only post workout) . Intravenous amino acid has a stimulatory effect on muscle protein synthesis independant of the insulin effect. BCAAs post workout also increase the muscles sensitivity to the protein stimulatory effects of insulin (hence why a combination of a CHO and BCAA conatining beverage or meal is appropriate). In addition, there also appears to be a potentialtion of amino acid transport into the muscle after an acute bout of exercise ----> Hyperaminoacidemia (following amino acid intake post workout) has been shown to further enhance amino acid transport and muscle proteim synthesis post workout.

CHO have an interactive effect with aminos that enhance protein synthesis and decreasing protein degradation..

This is without even delving into the effects of mTOR activation and the inhibition of epsilon subunit of eukaryotic initiation factor 2B that begins the translation process

Before I go on to disagree, I would like to point out I am not your enemy, nor am I here to argue

But all of that you just said contained no reference to time.. Aka the anabolic window. In fact, it's been shown in studies that 7g of leucine stimulates protein synthesis moreso than post. Regarding carbohydrates and branch chain amino acids, the synergistic effect you mentioned applies at any time of the day without reference to a workout.

Finally, you might want to consider the negligible difference ad hearing to such specificity has to offer... No study shows that meal timing, or the anabolic window if you want to call it that, caused any substantive difference in gains.

To quote Marc lobliner, "there is no most important meal."

So. Post workout I usually come home, sit, zone out... Maybe look at myself in the mirror, self 'mire, and then pass out. When I get hungry, I eat. And I make gains just as fast, if not moreso, than when I had adhered to all of those specifications you mentioned within 45 minutes of working out.

Sometimes looking for the answer is more fun than finding it.

 

[Jiigzz]

Nutrient Timing



J Int Soc Sports Nutr. 2008 Oct 3;5(1):17.
International society of sports nutrition position stand: nutrient timing.
Kerksick C, Stout J, Campbell B, Wilborn C, Kreider R, Kalman D, Ziegenfuss T, Lopez H, Landis J, Ivy J, Antonio J.

ABSTRACT: Position Statement: The position of the Society regarding nutrient timing and the intake of carbohydrates, proteins, and fats in reference to healthy, exercising individuals is summarized by the following eight points: 1.) Maximal endogenous glycogen stores are best promoted by following a high-glycemic, high-carbohydrate (CHO) diet (600 - 1000 grams CHO or ~ 8 - 10 g CHO/kg/d), and ingestion of free amino acids and protein (PRO) alone or in combination with CHO before resistance exercise can maximally stimulate protein synthesis. 2.) During exercise, CHO should be consumed at a rate of 30 - 60 grams of CHO/hour in a 6 - 8 % CHO solution (8 - 16 fluid ounces) every 10 - 15 minutes. Adding PRO to create a CHORO ratio of 3 - 4:1 may increase endurance performance and maximally promotes glycogen re-synthesis during acute and subsequent bouts of endurance exercise. 3.) Ingesting CHO alone or in combination with PRO during resistance exercise increases muscle glycogen, offsets muscle damage, and facilitates greater training adaptations after either acute or prolonged periods of supplementation with resistance training. 4.) Post-exercise (within 30 minutes) consumption of CHO at high dosages (8 - 10 g CHO/kg/day) have been shown to stimulate muscle glycogen re-synthesis, while adding PRO (0.2 g - 0.5 g PRO/kg/day) to CHO at a ratio of 3 - 4:1 (CHO: PRO) may further enhance glycogen re-synthesis. 5.) Post-exercise ingestion (immediately to 3 h post) of amino acids, primarily essential amino acids, has been shown to stimulate robust increases in muscle protein synthesis, while the addition of CHO may stimulate even greater levels of protein synthesis. Additionally, pre-exercise consumption of a CHO + PRO supplement may result in peak levels of protein synthesis. 6.) During consistent, prolonged resistance training, post-exercise consumption of varying doses of CHO + PRO supplements in varying dosages have been shown to stimulate improvements in strength and body composition when compared to control or placebo conditions. 7.) The addition of creatine (Cr) (0.1 g Cr/kg/day) to a CHO + PRO supplement may facilitate even greater adaptations to resistance training. 8.) Nutrient timing incorporates the use of methodical planning and eating of whole foods, nutrients extracted from food, and other sources. The timing of the energy intake and the ratio of certain ingested macronutrients are likely the attributes which allow for enhanced recovery and tissue repair following high-volume exercise, augmented muscle protein synthesis, and improved mood states when compared with unplanned or traditional strategies of nutrient intake.

PMID: 18834505


http://www.jissn.com/content/5/1/17

 

[aceroni]

I disagree.

Insulin infusion decreases protein degradation post workout (aids in restoring protein balance which can be done without protein intake but only post workout) . Intravenous amino acid has a stimulatory effect on muscle protein synthesis independant of the insulin effect. BCAAs post workout also increase the muscles sensitivity to the protein stimulatory effects of insulin (hence why a combination of a CHO and BCAA conatining beverage or meal is appropriate). In addition, there also appears to be a potentialtion of amino acid transport into the muscle after an acute bout of exercise ----> Hyperaminoacidemia (following amino acid intake post workout) has been shown to further enhance amino acid transport and muscle proteim synthesis post workout.

CHO have an interactive effect with aminos that enhance protein synthesis and decreasing protein degradation..

This is without even delving into the effects of mTOR activation and the inhibition of epsilon subunit of eukaryotic initiation factor 2B that begins the translation process

Thank you sir, I am so tired of ppl saying you don't need cho post..

Personally OP, I prefer about 50g carbs from oj, two scoops vanilla protein (over5g leu here) some creatine, and glu.
I drink this within ten minutes after training, then around an hour or so after that I eat a whole food meal, preferably some red meat- saturated fats are anabolic- and whatever carb I can find.

 

[Heavyappetite]

Thank you sir, I am so tired of ppl saying you don't need cho post..

Personally OP, I prefer about 50g carbs from oj, two scoops vanilla protein (over5g leu here) some creatine, and glu.
I drink this within ten minutes after training, then around an hour or so after that I eat a whole food meal, preferably some red meat- saturated fats are anabolic- and whatever carb I can find.

Thanks for that response. This is all i was asking in my OP... Everyone's ritual or view PWO.

Thanks again!

 

[aceroni]

Thanks for that response. This is all i was asking in my OP... Everyone's ritual or view PWO.

Thanks again!

Not a problem buddy. Also, if I know it's going to be a long session I like to drink bcaas either before or during

 

[Heavyappetite]

Not a problem buddy. Also, if I know it's going to be a long session I like to drink bcaas either before or during

Yeah intra workout BCAA'S have been a staple for me since day one. However as of late I've been keeping my sessions nice and heavy for 45min to an hour.

 

[aceroni]

Yeah intra workout BCAA'S have been a staple for me since day one. However as of late I've been keeping my sessions nice and heavy for 45min to an hour.

There's nothing wrong with that.

Just make sure you're not slacking on your prehab /rehab /warmups, especially if you're training heavy.


Oh and kinda related to this and your original post, if you're only in the gym 1hr and are doing cardio after you could just do your shake after cardio..
You'll be fine

Drinking carbs before post workout cardio kind of defeats the purpose.
I personally like to do my cardio first thing after waking, drink some bcaas and Glu, then do cardio, then home, big breakfast, and weights after that.

 

[Jiigzz]

Everyone has their own protocol, i'm just showing that there is method to my madness. I'm allowed to be pedantic over this stuff because my job revolves around it

 

[Heavyappetite]

Everyone has their own protocol, i'm just showing that there is method to my madness. I'm allowed to be pedantic over this stuff because my job revolves around it

I love it bro. This is the **** i enjoy reading. Don't stop... Fill me in on anything you got!!!

 

[Heavyappetite]

There's nothing wrong with that.

Just make sure you're not slacking on your prehab /rehab /warmups, especially if you're training heavy.

Oh and kinda related to this and your original post, if you're only in the gym 1hr and are doing cardio after you could just do your shake after cardio..
You'll be fine

Drinking carbs before post workout cardio kind of defeats the purpose.
I personally like to do my cardio first thing after waking, drink some bcaas and Glu, then do cardio, then home, big breakfast, and weights after that.

I usually do 5 warmup sets with my first exercise to get it going so i think im sweet.
To be honest i haven't done proper cardio in three weeks lol.

I've got a treadmill downstairs but i never use it. I used to do cardio on waking but now i start 7 30 and im up at 5 30 so no chance now.

Im in, smash it, shake and then out! Seen great gains in strength and size in the last 6 weeks because its the first time ive adopted the heavier lifts. I've gone from dumbbell pressing 35kg db's for 12 to 45kg for 6.

 

[aceroni]

I usually do 5 warmup sets with my first exercise to get it going so i think im sweet.
To be honest i haven't done proper cardio in three weeks lol.

I've got a treadmill downstairs but i never use it. I used to do cardio on waking but now i start 7 30 and im up at 5 30 so no chance now.

Im in, smash it, shake and then out! Seen great gains in strength and size in the last 6 weeks because its the first time ive adopted the heavier lifts. I've gone from dumbbell pressing 35kg db's for 12 to 45kg for 6.

I'll try to get back on later to post links but look up shoulder circuit mobility and lower body mobility. You will be glad you did

 

[Heavyappetite]

I'll try to get back on later to post links but look up shoulder circuit mobility and lower body mobility. You will be glad you did

Ok ill see what i can find. Cheers.