5x5 method...Please give your input

[chico1]

I am 5'9" @ 165lbs around 13% BF and 23 years old. I have been training seriously for 6 years. Pretty much the entire time doing a 5 day bodybuilding split.

I want to increase my overall strength and mass, so I have decided it would be necessary to change up my lifting style completely to get a lot stronger. The 5x5 method is appealing to me, so below is what I have compiled for my new routine. Please give me your input:

Day 1 Upper Body: Bench 5x5, BB bent over rows 3x8-12, BB Military press/DB shoulder press 3x8-12
Day 2 Lower Body: Squat 5x5, Leg press 3x8-15, Hamstring Curl 4x6-15
Day 3 OFF
Day 4 Upper Body: Military Press 5x5, Incline DB/BB chest press, 3x8-12, Weighted Pull-Ups or Pulldowns
Day 5 Lower Body: Deadlift 5x5, Leg press 4x8-15, Hamstring Curl 3x6-15, Standing Calf Raises 4x15-25
Day 6 Arms: Traditional Bodybuilding High Volume Arm Training
Day 7 Off

Do deadlifts hit the back enough or should I replace military presses on day 4 with BB bentover rows? I just want to make sure my push and pull are relatively even so my shoulder health stays good, should I throw in some additional rear delt work? Lateral work? please give input. Thanks.

 

[PaulBlack]

I want to increase my overall strength and mass,

The big exercises (especially working the hips, legs, back and shoulders) with lower reps and multi sets, that, and you have to eat enough to grow.
Do you have a friend that you could train with? It can help a good deal to find a partner willing to do this kind of work and you can push each other and keep yourselves motivated

Do deadlifts hit the back enough?

Yes a bent leg deadlift, trains a very large part of the body including the back, some legs, glutes, hips, upper traps, erectors, static work on the abs etc etc.
If you work up to using enough weight, it can be a very good exercise for power and bulk adding mass all over the body. It is as good or better for some guys, than heavy squatting. Make it a staple along with the the 5-7 compound exercises and you will transform your body.
At one time, I was up over #265BW using them, and started around #200BW.

 

[napalm]

When do you plan on recovering? Even with two days off, that's a lot of movements. I'm concerned you won't be able to keep up the needed intensity on the big lifts over the long haul.

I'd toss a couple movements each day and move it to a mwf thing with conditioning on off days.

More mass = more calories, bottom line...

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[OnionKnight]

5x5 routines are 3 days a week, not 5. more isnt always better

 

[boogyman]

Look up Madcow 5x5, its much more effective than the one you came up with.

 

[chico1]

5x5 routines are 3 days a week, not 5. more isnt always better

Understood...but isn't Madcow a 4 day split?

 

[OnionKnight]

nope

 

[Montego1]

Madcow is awesome

 

[TexasGuy]

Madcow.

 

[PaulBlack]

I agree with a regular 5x5 set up 3x a week, but with his split at 4 days, he would still not be hitting the legs hips 3 days per week, which is most likely harder/hardest to recover (as you get farther into the cycle) than his set up suggests.
I don't think recovery is as much an issue, especially if one is only starting out with this stuff. The entire body can be trained 3x per week on most if not all of the muscle groups.
Extra arm work at the end of the week is most likely not needed and he could even stick a few sets of arm work in at the end of a few of the w/o's in many 5x5 programs until he needs the added energy from the heavy work on the heavy weights.
All that said, I do feel there are better written programs that produce better.

** Now before you embark on this stuff, if you are not real familiar with say squatting, BLDL's etc. it may be much better and productive in the long run, for you to learn the movements well with lighter loads and higher reps, until you get somewhat proficient and form is cemented in, then begin to add weight slowly over a cycle.
Impatience and ego is not your friend when doing this moves.

Monday
Squat 5x5 (2 progressive warm ups, then 3 say work sets)
BP 5x5 (3 work sets)
Rows 3x8
OHP's 2x8
(maybe a few curls 2X10 /abs 2X20)

Wednesday
BLDL's 5x5 (2 progressive W/U's then 3 work sets)
OHP's 3x8
Chins 3x8
CGBP's 3x8 (will hit tris)

Friday
BP's 5x5 or OHP's
Squats or Leg presses 5x5
Rows 3x8
(maybe a few pressdwns/curls (2x10)

Maybe a medium to light intensity leg day on Friday, then getting 2 rest days for hitting squats heavy again Monday.
Madcow maybe a bit more advanced and starting here might be more efficient...

StrongLifts 5x5: Ultimate Strength & Muscle Building Program StrongLifts

 

[TexasGuy]

I agree with a regular 5x5 set up 3x a week, but with his split at 4 days, he would still not be hitting the legs hips 3 days per week, which is most likely harder/hardest to recover (as you get farther into the cycle) than his set up suggests.
I don't think recovery is as much an issue, especially if one is only starting out with this stuff. The entire body can be trained 3x per week on most if not all of the muscle groups.
Extra arm work at the end of the week is most likely not needed and he could even stick a few sets of arm work in at the end of a few of the w/o's in many 5x5 programs until he needs the added energy from the heavy work on the heavy weights.
All that said, I do feel there are better written programs that produce better.

** Now before you embark on this stuff, if you are not real familiar with say squatting, BLDL's etc. it may be much better and productive in the long run, for you to learn the movements well with lighter loads and higher reps, until you get somewhat proficient and form is cemented in, then begin to add weight slowly over a cycle.
Impatience and ego is not your friend when doing this moves.

Monday
Squat 5x5 (2 progressive warm ups, then 3 say work sets)
BP 5x5 (3 work sets)
Rows 3x8
OHP's 2x8
(maybe a few curls 2X10 /abs 2X20)

Wednesday
BLDL's 5x5 (2 progressive W/U's then 3 work sets)
OHP's 3x8
Chins 3x8
CGBP's 3x8 (will hit tris)

Friday
BP's 5x5 or OHP's
Squats or Leg presses 5x5
Rows 3x8
(maybe a few pressdwns/curls (2x10)

Maybe a medium to light intensity leg day on Friday, then getting 2 rest days for hitting squats heavy again Monday.
Madcow maybe a bit more advanced and starting here might be more efficient...

StrongLifts 5x5: Ultimate Strength & Muscle Building Program StrongLifts

Imo ramping isn't a good idea for 5x5. The volume at a given maximal percentage is calculated intentionally.

 

[napalm]

Imo ramping isn't a good idea for 5x5. The volume at a given maximal percentage is calculated intentionally.

Bill starr's/Glenn pendlay's advanced template ramps on Friday for the squat, mondays for the bench and rows. Other days/movements are sets across...

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[TexasGuy]

Bill starr's/Glenn pendlay's advanced template ramps on Friday for the squat, mondays for the bench and rows. Other days/movements are sets across...

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At 165 pounds I'm not sure he should be using an advanced routine

 

[napalm]

At 165 pounds I'm not sure he should be using an advanced routine

I didn't say he should be, just responding to your observation that 5x5's shouldn't be ramped...

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[TexasGuy]

I didn't say he should be, just responding to your observation that 5x5's shouldn't be ramped...

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I should've been more specific I suppose. I would recommend a beginner 5x5, which technically still ramps but to a 5x5 weight as I understand it, which is more of a warm up than a ramp set.

 

[TexasGuy]

http://oldschooltrainer.com/bill-starrs-5-x-5-training/

 

[PaulBlack]

Sorry if I was unclear, but I was basically saying 3x5 (after warmups ie: the m/t bar and then a light weight) followed by sets across, not ramping. I did not feel like 5 full work sets at this time, was needed, until he gets more time in perhaps and can work up to that volume.

If you could get a hold of it, a good book on just all kinds of goals and training is, John McCallum's Keys To Progress he covers a ton of good stuff/routines et al. and is a pretty good book to have in your arsenal.

 

[TexasGuy]

Sorry if I was unclear, but I was basically saying 3x5 (after warmups ie: the m/t bar and then a light weight) followed by sets across, not ramping. I did not feel like 5 full work sets at this time, was needed, until he gets more time in perhaps and can work up to that volume.

If you could get a hold of it, a good book on just all kinds of goals and training is, John McCallum's Keys To Progress he covers a ton of good stuff/routines et al. and is a pretty good book to have in your arsenal.

No biggie, my mistake reading you incorrectly. It looks like some people call for ramping at the beginner level anways, I could be wrong. I jumped right in to advanced templates after switching to BB training and have read through beginner literature but only topically. I think we are looking at the same mountain from different angles.

 

[chico1]

Thanks for all the input. I appreciate the help.