Crossfit injury rate

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  1. As someone that has experience in playing football. More kids got injured in the weightroom doing some dumb workout a coach told them or they saw on the Internet( like crossfit) than they did on the field. The ones that get injured om the field were normally the ones that did the stupid workout
    http://anabolicminds.com/forum/training-forum/198788-highschool-athlete-thread.html


  2. Quote Originally Posted by SXIPro View Post
    We have a few crossfit/functional trainers at my gym and they crack me up. They use the same training routine with each client, right down to reps, pace, resistance etc regardless of their clients age, gender or fitness level. Week after week....same damn thing for every victim that walks in the door.
    Those are just examples of ****ty trainers, which happens a whole ton with traditional trainers as well! I don't know where the whole "everyone has to do the same thing" garbage came from, but most CF gyms DO NOT do that!! I have traveled a lot and been to a lot of good CF gyms that pay very close attention to an individuals skill strength and form. Although I am not a fan of high rep Oly lifts, I haven't run across and CF trainers that will let anyone use anything more than they can handle. Plus, if they are just learning the for, it's bar only, or even just a PVC to help them learn without getting hurt.
    The biggest problem people I see on these forums is the generalizations that people make just because they don't like something, or they searched for some fail videos on you tube.
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  3. Quote Originally Posted by Wrivest View Post
    Those are just examples of ****ty trainers, which happens a whole ton with traditional trainers as well! I don't know where the whole "everyone has to do the same thing" garbage came from, but most CF gyms DO NOT do that!! I have traveled a lot and been to a lot of good CF gyms that pay very close attention to an individuals skill strength and form. Although I am not a fan of high rep Oly lifts, I haven't run across and CF trainers that will let anyone use anything more than they can handle. Plus, if they are just learning the for, it's bar only, or even just a PVC to help them learn without getting hurt.
    The biggest problem people I see on these forums is the generalizations that people make just because they don't like something, or they searched for some fail videos on you tube.
    I completely understand and agree. There are some really good crossfit facilities in my area. Problem is they charge $150 a month. My gym is $20 a month and the crossfit is an additional $80. Maybe you get what you pay for.

    But yeah, there are lousy trainers everywhere. I was a personal trainer back in the late 80's and I spent half my time undoing what other trainers at my own club had done to people as far as showing proper form, setting up a routine that actually related to the client's fitness goals etc etc.

    Nothing pissed me off more than having a new customer come in who desperately needed help and proper attention to put them on the right track and keep them motivated, but some fly by night trainer would spend 10 minutes with them and then they were on thier own,

  4. Quote Originally Posted by Wrivest View Post
    Those are just examples of ****ty trainers, which happens a whole ton with traditional trainers as well! I don't know where the whole "everyone has to do the same thing" garbage came from, but most CF gyms DO NOT do that!! I have traveled a lot and been to a lot of good CF gyms that pay very close attention to an individuals skill strength and form. Although I am not a fan of high rep Oly lifts, I haven't run across and CF trainers that will let anyone use anything more than they can handle. Plus, if they are just learning the for, it's bar only, or even just a PVC to help them learn without getting hurt.
    The biggest problem people I see on these forums is the generalizations that people make just because they don't like something, or they searched for some fail videos on you tube.
    It's the CrossFit programthat's flawed. The trainers reinforce the program. Ergo even with a good trainer, the results will invariably be the same (to an extent). Lots of average gym-trainers follow generic plans or develop their own which may also be flawed. Which it is always best to follow programs that aren't unless developed specifically for you by someone with enough knowledge to make a plan.

    I get my clients to follow 5/3/1. Its simple, easy and well programmed. I then tailor the accessory exercises based on what needs correcting. Because i'm still myself learning, all my recommendations are overseen by a S&C professional before being given the green light.
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  5. Quote Originally Posted by asooneyeonig View Post
    no direct correlation? there are abundant facts about the direct correlation to injury and the program. and uhm even crossfit embraces the injuries it can entail as shown my its mascot. it seems its all about Rhabdo! and to define that:

    Rhabdomyolysis is the breakdown of muscle fibers that leads to the release of muscle fiber contents (myoglobin) into the bloodstream. Myoglobin is harmful to the kidney and often causes kidney damage.

    rhabdo is NOT a good thing. it is bad. that is a fact. if you want to argue that then it would seem that you think its a good thing.



    do you think that, maybe, you are the exception to the rule when it comes to technical proficiency? it takes years to get to that point. how does crossfit deal with teaching the technique. my experience and it seems most others from reading articles about it, you throw the WOD at the person and make them do the same weights as everyone else in the world and then time them and have everyone around them cheering them on. that sounds like a recipe for disaster [belief].

    you may never get injured from it and that is awesome. good for you. now for the other 99.99999% of the world that does crossfit, are they conditioned with years of practice? are they technically advanced with years of practice? i can answer an honest NO to both. that is the problem. you are doing the same WOD as a couch potato.




    can you name a sport that has the same injury rate? i posted the info already btw.
    1st quote: Crossfit is based off of periodization methods... hell, Mark Rippetoe helped design the strength portion of the programming you see in crossfit. All crossfit chapters consist of two workouts, in case you didn't know, one is a form a periodization based off skill level (SWOD) and the other the conditioning part (DWOD). So by saying that the actual strength programming at minimal reps causes injury is ludicrous, it's the people not the program, plain and simple. Rhabdo only occurs in those who don't know how to recover properly and ignore the signs of overtraining, again, the persons fault not the program.

    2nd quote: You are exactly right, I agree that 20 reps of 135 lb. power snatches are dangerous to a novice/intermediate, but then again the person should be aware of what they're signing up for. That's not the programs fault, that's the fault of the business end of the program and coaches (not properly trained) who do not properly inform participants of the program and it's requirements; that they need to be proficient in the lifts before they go anywhere over 5 reps in ANY technical movement. The coaches should be taught how to assess their clients accordingly and make sure that their clients are fully aware of the dangers they could potentially face.

    3rd quote: Football, whether reported or not, everyone who has actually played has had an injury over the course of their career at the college level and higher, after 10 years of beating your body day in and day out. Especially concussions, which often times go unreported due to the fact that they are easy to hide and hard to detect. The study has a very high degree of uncertainty and a very high percent of error because most times minor injuries in the sport go unnoticed and unreported, we just put an ace wrap around it, RICE it, and hit the field. Your study only accounts for instances that were reported and only a small percentage of the total collegiate and professional football players in America.

    Injuries in American Football ... Page 133

    Academic Emergency Medicine, M.J. Mello et al., Injuries in Youth Football, March 2009.

    Talavage, Thomas; Eric A. Nauman, Evan L. Breedlove, Umit Yoruk, Anne E. Dye, Katie Morigaki, Henry Feuer, Larry J. Leverenz (In Press). "Functionally-Detected Cognitive Impairment in High School Football Players Without Clinically Diagnosed Concussion". Journal of Neurotrauma.

    A chronicle of injuries of an American intercollegiate football team

    I guess it all depends on your definition of injury... but I consider an injury to be anything that inhibits or makes the playing of the game uncomfortable. Injuries are high at the top levels in nearly every sport. Do some research and you will find that a 20% incidence of injury in crossfit is nothing compared some sports.
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  6. Quote Originally Posted by Wrivest View Post
    Those are just examples of ****ty trainers, which happens a whole ton with traditional trainers as well! I don't know where the whole "everyone has to do the same thing" garbage came from, but most CF gyms DO NOT do that!! I have traveled a lot and been to a lot of good CF gyms that pay very close attention to an individuals skill strength and form. Although I am not a fan of high rep Oly lifts, I haven't run across and CF trainers that will let anyone use anything more than they can handle. Plus, if they are just learning the for, it's bar only, or even just a PVC to help them learn without getting hurt.
    The biggest problem people I see on these forums is the generalizations that people make just because they don't like something, or they searched for some fail videos on you tube.
    Yet again, the coaches, not the actual programming are the causes of these injuries which can be avoided entirely with proper training.

  7. Quote Originally Posted by PROness View Post
    1st quote: Crossfit is based off of periodization methods... hell, Mark Rippetoe helped design the strength portion of the programming you see in crossfit. All crossfit chapters consist of two workouts, in case you didn't know, one is a form a periodization based off skill level (SWOD) and the other the conditioning part (DWOD). So by saying that the actual strength programming at minimal reps causes injury is ludicrous, it's the people not the program, plain and simple. Rhabdo only occurs in those who don't know how to recover properly and ignore the signs of overtraining, again, the persons fault not the program.

    2nd quote: You are exactly right, I agree that 20 reps of 135 lb. power snatches are dangerous to a novice/intermediate, but then again the person should be aware of what they're signing up for. That's not the programs fault, that's the fault of the business end of the program and coaches (not properly trained) who do not properly inform participants of the program and it's requirements; that they need to be proficient in the lifts before they go anywhere over 5 reps in ANY technical movement. The coaches should be taught how to assess their clients accordingly and make sure that their clients are fully aware of the dangers they could potentially face.

    3rd quote: Football, whether reported or not, everyone who has actually played has had an injury over the course of their career at the college level and higher, after 10 years of beating your body day in and day out. Especially concussions, which often times go unreported due to the fact that they are easy to hide and hard to detect. The study has a very high degree of uncertainty and a very high percent of error because most times minor injuries in the sport go unnoticed and unreported, we just put an ace wrap around it, RICE it, and hit the field. Your study only accounts for instances that were reported and only a small percentage of the total collegiate and professional football players in America.

    Injuries in American Football ... Page 133

    Academic Emergency Medicine, M.J. Mello et al., Injuries in Youth Football, March 2009.

    Talavage, Thomas; Eric A. Nauman, Evan L. Breedlove, Umit Yoruk, Anne E. Dye, Katie Morigaki, Henry Feuer, Larry J. Leverenz (In Press). "Functionally-Detected Cognitive Impairment in High School Football Players Without Clinically Diagnosed Concussion". Journal of Neurotrauma.

    A chronicle of injuries of an American intercollegiate football team

    I guess it all depends on your definition of injury... but I consider an injury to be anything that inhibits or makes the playing of the game uncomfortable. Injuries are high at the top levels in nearly every sport. Do some research and you will find that a 20% incidence of injury in crossfit is nothing compared some sports.
    1. What kind of periodization scheme(s) are within CF as I have yet to see anything that resembles a structured plan?
    2. How is that not a display of a lack of integrity and terrible ethics? If clients knew how to properly train, then they wouldn't seek outside tutelage.
    3. You cannot talk about the contact aspect when it comes to injury rates within football as that is something that is not cannot be compared to anything in CF. The direct comparison that can be made, however, is the injury rates that stem from S&C within football to the injury rates within CF. 3.59% compared to 20% is a huge discrepancy and that is the heart of the issue.

    You can be a CF apologist all you want and try to spin and minimize the data, but it does not change the fact that the injury rate is unacceptable and that CF shows a huge lack of ethics in allowing so many irresponsible and uneducated people to guide others. I've already covered the many flaw within their paradigm several times and not once has anyone addressed these actual issues. What this peer-reviewed data does is strengthen my case against CF.
    M.Ed. Ex Phys


  8. I hope the lions don't pick up Reggie bush, it would do nothing to address our defensive issues...

  9. Bottom line: Crossfit is still gay ;-)

  10. Quote Originally Posted by mikeg313 View Post
    Bottom line: Crossfit is still gay ;-)
    I'll call this "WODenvy"!!! Haha!!

  11. Quote Originally Posted by PROness View Post
    2nd quote: You are exactly right, I agree that 20 reps of 135 lb. power snatches are dangerous to a novice/intermediate, but then again the person should be aware of what they're signing up for. That's not the programs fault, that's the fault of the business end of the program and coaches (not properly trained) who do not properly inform participants of the program and it's requirements; that they need to be proficient in the lifts before they go anywhere over 5 reps in ANY technical movement. The coaches should be taught how to assess their clients accordingly and make sure that their clients are fully aware of the dangers they could potentially face.
    .
    so can it be said that crossfit is not for the average joe. could it be said that it is for technically proficient and condiftioned individuals with a base understanding of periodization and recovery protocols.

    cause that is not how the world sees crossfit. hell, many trainers dont understand periodization and recovery worth a damn.

    if the trainers/coaches did assess each client and customize the program than why do WODs exist at all? i can understand the big name WODs like Jan. like a test to gauge progress.
    you can call me "ozzie" for short.

  12. Quote Originally Posted by Wrivest View Post

    I'll call this "WODenvy"!!! Haha!!
    Ill call that comment even gayER!

  13. Quote Originally Posted by mikeg313 View Post

    Ill call that comment even gayER!
    Hahaha!

  14. You're talking a program that requires very advanced lifts, done in a fast paced, PR level form, until body exhaustion, where repetition is the key most of the times. Ok.

    So, let's compare basic statistics here:

    Chances of you performing a wrong motion in a sample size of 100 repetitions when in comparison to a sample size of 6 repetitions? Whereas one you are aiming for speed as well and the other one you are aiming to have the best execution, usually in front of a mirror, and if you're lifting heavy, usually with a spotter or partner.

    Please enlighten me how doing 100 reps, with no monitoring, and aiming for speed, should not be considered a bigger risk of injuries when compared to traditional bodybuilding. It is pure statistics at this point, not even taking in consideration the qualitative data.

    Couple that with poor instructors, very little attention paid to the athlete in question (whether it be by the person itself or a trainer), the goal of the exercise and the program and who performs each. Sure, go ahead and do crosfit, just don't claim that it is as safe as being in a gym because it is not, hence the studies.
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  15. Okay I have a serious question.
    What are those weird looking pull-ups that cross fitters do?
    And what are their purpose? In other words, what are you training (it's certainly not back), and what do they make you good at?

  16. Are you referring to the ones that looks like the hoops that gymnasts do?

    Because I've heard a friend and his "trainer" say that you have to do whatever it takes to get the extension over the hoops, swing your legs, prop, whatever it may be... yep, that sounds very technically sound and something that develops you a lot.

    Done properly I would imagine biceps, back, and once you're over the mid range triceps as a dip and chest. But to me that's an exercise just asking for injury.
    Androhard + Andromass Log
    http://anabolicminds.com/forum/supplement-reviews-logs/182038-so-i-decided.html

  17. Quote Originally Posted by toddgranit
    Okay I have a serious question.
    What are those weird looking pull-ups that cross fitters do?
    And what are their purpose? In other words, what are you training (it's certainly not back), and what do they make you good at?
    They're Kipping pull ups and they make you good at labral tears...

  18. Quote Originally Posted by toddgranit View Post
    Okay I have a serious question.
    What are those weird looking pull-ups that cross fitters do?
    And what are their purpose? In other words, what are you training (it's certainly not back), and what do they make you good at?
    The kipping pullup is one of my major issues with CF. Momentum should never used in order to complete a lift outside of maybe a few cheat reps at the end to extend a set, but even that is not for the novice trainee.
    M.Ed. Ex Phys


  19. A kipping pull up and a strict pull up are completely different exercises, one is done for strength and the other for amount of work .

    The kipping pull up involves a hip snap generating momentum that moves up the spine and into the arms. This lets you lift your body over the bar with less direct pulling. The result is a lot more pull ups. While easier on the direct pulling muscles, they are much harder on the grip and are inarguably more cardiovascular.
    I kip, dead hand and go weighted pull ups still
  20. Re: Crossfit injury rate


    I submit to the courts Exhibit A

    WOD 13.1

    http://games.crossfit.com/workouts/the-open/2013#tabs-1

    MEN - includes Masters Men up to 54 years old
    Proceed through the sequence below completing as many reps as possible in 17 minutes of:
    40 Burpees
    75 pound Snatch, 30 reps
    30 Burpees
    135 pound Snatch, 30 reps
    20 Burpees
    165 pound Snatch, 30 reps
    10 burpees
    210 pound Snatch, as many reps as possible

    Sent from my Samsung Galaxy S™II using Tapatalk 2
    PESCIENCE.COM

    "The only good is knowledge and the only evil is ignorance." - Socrates

  21. Quote Originally Posted by Xfit10 View Post
    A kipping pull up and a strict pull up are completely different exercises, one is done for strength and the other for amount of work .

    The kipping pull up involves a hip snap generating momentum that moves up the spine and into the arms. This lets you lift your body over the bar with less direct pulling. The result is a lot more pull ups. While easier on the direct pulling muscles, they are much harder on the grip and are inarguably more cardiovascular.
    I kip, dead hand and go weighted pull ups still
    Using kipping pullups for work capacity purposes is like using a stapler for a roof.
    M.Ed. Ex Phys


  22. Quote Originally Posted by Rodja View Post

    Using kipping pullups for work capacity purposes is like using a stapler for a roof.
    The goal of kipping is different than strict

  23. Quote Originally Posted by Xfit10 View Post
    The goal of kipping is different than strict
    And that goal is what exactly? To finish the WOD as fast as possible and as easily as possible?
  24. Re: Crossfit injury rate


    Quote Originally Posted by jimbuick View Post
    And that goal is what exactly? To finish the WOD as fast as possible and as easily as possible?
    Yes i believe that is the goal.
    E-Pharm Rep... PM me with any questions or concerns

  25. Quote Originally Posted by jimbuick View Post

    And that goal is what exactly? To finish the WOD as fast as possible and as easily as possible?
    Well that depends on the the WOD, but the amount of kippkng pull ups is not easy in a large number. Yes, easier than strict, but faster, like I said I a lot of Crossfitters do strict pull ups instead kipping when the number are low or even go strict as long as possible, then switch to kipping
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