Crossfit injury rate

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  1. Quote Originally Posted by PROness View Post
    2nd quote: You are exactly right, I agree that 20 reps of 135 lb. power snatches are dangerous to a novice/intermediate, but then again the person should be aware of what they're signing up for. That's not the programs fault, that's the fault of the business end of the program and coaches (not properly trained) who do not properly inform participants of the program and it's requirements; that they need to be proficient in the lifts before they go anywhere over 5 reps in ANY technical movement. The coaches should be taught how to assess their clients accordingly and make sure that their clients are fully aware of the dangers they could potentially face.
    .
    so can it be said that crossfit is not for the average joe. could it be said that it is for technically proficient and condiftioned individuals with a base understanding of periodization and recovery protocols.

    cause that is not how the world sees crossfit. hell, many trainers dont understand periodization and recovery worth a damn.

    if the trainers/coaches did assess each client and customize the program than why do WODs exist at all? i can understand the big name WODs like Jan. like a test to gauge progress.
    you can call me "ozzie" for short.


  2. Quote Originally Posted by Wrivest View Post

    I'll call this "WODenvy"!!! Haha!!
    Ill call that comment even gayER!
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  3. Quote Originally Posted by mikeg313 View Post

    Ill call that comment even gayER!
    Hahaha!

  4. You're talking a program that requires very advanced lifts, done in a fast paced, PR level form, until body exhaustion, where repetition is the key most of the times. Ok.

    So, let's compare basic statistics here:

    Chances of you performing a wrong motion in a sample size of 100 repetitions when in comparison to a sample size of 6 repetitions? Whereas one you are aiming for speed as well and the other one you are aiming to have the best execution, usually in front of a mirror, and if you're lifting heavy, usually with a spotter or partner.

    Please enlighten me how doing 100 reps, with no monitoring, and aiming for speed, should not be considered a bigger risk of injuries when compared to traditional bodybuilding. It is pure statistics at this point, not even taking in consideration the qualitative data.

    Couple that with poor instructors, very little attention paid to the athlete in question (whether it be by the person itself or a trainer), the goal of the exercise and the program and who performs each. Sure, go ahead and do crosfit, just don't claim that it is as safe as being in a gym because it is not, hence the studies.
    Androhard + Andromass Log
    http://anabolicminds.com/forum/supplement-reviews-logs/182038-so-i-decided.html

  5. Okay I have a serious question.
    What are those weird looking pull-ups that cross fitters do?
    And what are their purpose? In other words, what are you training (it's certainly not back), and what do they make you good at?
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  6. Are you referring to the ones that looks like the hoops that gymnasts do?

    Because I've heard a friend and his "trainer" say that you have to do whatever it takes to get the extension over the hoops, swing your legs, prop, whatever it may be... yep, that sounds very technically sound and something that develops you a lot.

    Done properly I would imagine biceps, back, and once you're over the mid range triceps as a dip and chest. But to me that's an exercise just asking for injury.
    Androhard + Andromass Log
    http://anabolicminds.com/forum/supplement-reviews-logs/182038-so-i-decided.html

  7. Quote Originally Posted by toddgranit
    Okay I have a serious question.
    What are those weird looking pull-ups that cross fitters do?
    And what are their purpose? In other words, what are you training (it's certainly not back), and what do they make you good at?
    They're Kipping pull ups and they make you good at labral tears...

  8. Quote Originally Posted by toddgranit View Post
    Okay I have a serious question.
    What are those weird looking pull-ups that cross fitters do?
    And what are their purpose? In other words, what are you training (it's certainly not back), and what do they make you good at?
    The kipping pullup is one of my major issues with CF. Momentum should never used in order to complete a lift outside of maybe a few cheat reps at the end to extend a set, but even that is not for the novice trainee.
    M.Ed. Ex Phys


  9. A kipping pull up and a strict pull up are completely different exercises, one is done for strength and the other for amount of work .

    The kipping pull up involves a hip snap generating momentum that moves up the spine and into the arms. This lets you lift your body over the bar with less direct pulling. The result is a lot more pull ups. While easier on the direct pulling muscles, they are much harder on the grip and are inarguably more cardiovascular.
    I kip, dead hand and go weighted pull ups still
  10. Re: Crossfit injury rate


    I submit to the courts Exhibit A

    WOD 13.1

    http://games.crossfit.com/workouts/the-open/2013#tabs-1

    MEN - includes Masters Men up to 54 years old
    Proceed through the sequence below completing as many reps as possible in 17 minutes of:
    40 Burpees
    75 pound Snatch, 30 reps
    30 Burpees
    135 pound Snatch, 30 reps
    20 Burpees
    165 pound Snatch, 30 reps
    10 burpees
    210 pound Snatch, as many reps as possible

    Sent from my Samsung Galaxy S™II using Tapatalk 2
    PESCIENCE.COM

    "The only good is knowledge and the only evil is ignorance." - Socrates

  11. Quote Originally Posted by Xfit10 View Post
    A kipping pull up and a strict pull up are completely different exercises, one is done for strength and the other for amount of work .

    The kipping pull up involves a hip snap generating momentum that moves up the spine and into the arms. This lets you lift your body over the bar with less direct pulling. The result is a lot more pull ups. While easier on the direct pulling muscles, they are much harder on the grip and are inarguably more cardiovascular.
    I kip, dead hand and go weighted pull ups still
    Using kipping pullups for work capacity purposes is like using a stapler for a roof.
    M.Ed. Ex Phys


  12. Quote Originally Posted by Rodja View Post

    Using kipping pullups for work capacity purposes is like using a stapler for a roof.
    The goal of kipping is different than strict

  13. Quote Originally Posted by Xfit10 View Post
    The goal of kipping is different than strict
    And that goal is what exactly? To finish the WOD as fast as possible and as easily as possible?
  14. Re: Crossfit injury rate


    Quote Originally Posted by jimbuick View Post
    And that goal is what exactly? To finish the WOD as fast as possible and as easily as possible?
    Yes i believe that is the goal.
    E-Pharm Rep... PM me with any questions or concerns

  15. Quote Originally Posted by jimbuick View Post

    And that goal is what exactly? To finish the WOD as fast as possible and as easily as possible?
    Well that depends on the the WOD, but the amount of kippkng pull ups is not easy in a large number. Yes, easier than strict, but faster, like I said I a lot of Crossfitters do strict pull ups instead kipping when the number are low or even go strict as long as possible, then switch to kipping

  16. If its timed, then yes as fast as possible

  17. Quote Originally Posted by Xfit10 View Post
    The goal of kipping is different than strict
    Yes, I read that point, but I was highlighting how using it as a means of increasing work capacity makes no sense. The same can be said for high rep deadlifts, Oly lifts, etc. that are ubiquitous within CF. This increases the chance of injury more than anything and is just another glaring example of the lack of programming and fundamental knowledge of energy systems, fatigue, and proper modality.
    M.Ed. Ex Phys


  18. Quote Originally Posted by Rodja View Post

    Yes, I read that point, but I was highlighting how using it as a means of increasing work capacity makes no sense. The same can be said for high rep deadlifts, Oly lifts, etc. that are ubiquitous within CF. This increases the chance of injury more than anything and is just another glaring example of the lack of programming and fundamental knowledge of energy systems, fatigue, and proper modality.
    How does it not make sense? By doing kipping as opposed to strict we are able to perform more pull ups in a shorter amount of time, increasing work output

  19. It is the incorporation (bastardization) of other sports into the Crossfit program.

    That type of pull up is used in gymnastics to get above the bar and from there perform another move. You will never see a gymnastics coach having his athletes do sets of kipping pull ups to improve that skill. It is a skill, like kicking a soccer ball or throwing a baseball, and should be treated like one. You wouldn't have a swimmer perform the start of race to fatigue, you wouldn't have a batter swing until he is fatigued and can no longer handle the bat, and you shouldn't train that skill for work capacity or exhaustion either.

    It is not functional. The chances of one needing to perform that movement 10-20 times in a row in real life or sport is minimal. Just look to gymnastics where it originated, they are perhaps performing that move 1-3 times in an entire routine, with quite a bit of space between. Train the core, the hips, and the traditional pull up to increase strength...not kipping pull ups to failure.

    Jason Cholewa Ph.D., CSCS

  20. Quote Originally Posted by Xfit10 View Post
    How does it not make sense? By doing kipping as opposed to strict we are able to perform more pull ups in a shorter amount of time, increasing work output
    The reason it doesn't make sense is that there are a myriad of safer and more efficient methods of increasing work output (e.g sled dragging). Instead, CF decided to use an piss poor excuse to fluff their workouts with a movement that accomplishes nothing. It's all momentum and doesn't improve hip, back, or arm strength. Add in the fatigue factor (BTW, just because you are tired doesn't make the workout good) and you have a disproportionate injury increase.
    M.Ed. Ex Phys


  21. if you have rodja and jason agreeing in the same thread, its time to just give up. theyre the movement gurus of the forum

  22. They have valid points, there are valid points on both sides I think, I'm fine with kipping pull ups because in don't always do them. They shouldn't be the only form of pull ups anyone does

  23. I've learned a lot from this thread. The biggest thing being that even though I am well into my 40s, I still cannot read the word 'snatch' without giggling.

  24. Quote Originally Posted by Xfit10 View Post
    They have valid points, there are valid points on both sides I think, I'm fine with kipping pull ups because in don't always do them. They shouldn't be the only form of pull ups anyone does
    What valid points have you made? There hasn't been a rebuttal to the issues pointed out within the programming and implementation of CF regarding fatigue and performing of highly technical lifts that should only rely on the ATP-PCr system.
    M.Ed. Ex Phys


  25. Quote Originally Posted by Rodja
    ubiquitous
    Quite possibly the first time in history this word has been used on AM

  26. I guess anything I said is only valid to someone o doesn't already have their mind made up

  27. Quote Originally Posted by Xfit10 View Post
    I guess anything I said is only valid to someone o doesn't already have an education
    Fixed for accuracy.

  28. Quote Originally Posted by Xfit10 View Post
    I guess anything I said is only valid to someone o doesn't already have their mind made up
    You could make a valid point by addressing the criticisms within the CF paradigm particularly the inexplicable usage of high-power, high-technique lifts (e.g. Oly lifts, plyos) for time instead of using them for their intended purposes. Or how about their horrible imbalance of internal:external rotators and vertical/horizontal flexion:extension?
    M.Ed. Ex Phys


  29. Quote Originally Posted by Rodja View Post

    You could make a valid point by addressing the criticisms within the CF paradigm particularly the inexplicable usage of high-power, high-technique lifts (e.g. Oly lifts, plyos) for time instead of using them for their intended purposes. Or how about their horrible imbalance of internal:external rotators and vertical/horizontal flexion:extension?
    No I do agree the Oly lifts are dangerous when done by somebody who doesn't know what they are doing, but anyone can and should scale weight to what they can mange safely and more importantly learn how to perform them first

  30. Quote Originally Posted by Xfit10 View Post
    No I do agree the Oly lifts are dangerous when done by somebody who doesn't know what they are doing, but anyone can and should scale weight to what they can mange safely and more importantly learn how to perform them first
    I'm so sure that CF takes the necessary time to teach the finer technical points of the Oly lifts (sarcasm). Let's try this again: these lifts are designed to be used solely with the ATP-PCr system and not for time. If you're not intimately familiar with the energy systems and how to apply them, then don't bother responding.
    M.Ed. Ex Phys

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