This, no matter what you are doing, if you do it wrong you can get injured.
However, the average gym goer is not under the guidance and tutelage of a coach/trainer.
I think this is a big point. The people training or coaching are supposed to be professionals with advanced training/education. Crossfit or commercial gyms, this is rarely the case.
I think its more to do with how the programs are developed rather than a persons overall knowledge. In saying that, getting proficient in cleans + snatches is not an easy task, nor are these movements meant to be used at the intensity and volume being adovated for by XFIT. Program developers should have taken this into consideration and recognised that these movements need to be taught by people who are qualified to do so and training of these movements needs to be personal (ie. watched carefully by an experienced person) until form is perfect. Average gym-goers do not understand the complexity of the movements (same as deadlifts) and altering from optimal form will subsequently, even if not immediatly, lead to injury.
I think it is also the smoking mentality, where "I/me" won't get hurt or be one of those people or jump before the crap hits the fan.
EX: Football... which has an injury rate of 100% for those who make it to college ball and beyond.
How many of those players, however, incur these injuries from their S&C programs?
An equal number at best. Injuries on the field would only be compounded by strength training. Injuries that were otherwise negligible can become problems after lifting heavy weights prior to or after practice. It comes with the sport... with the amount of time spent in the weight room and on the field it's only a matter of time until an athlete injuries themselves in both environments. If I had a dollar for every time i heard someone say "I was power cleaning after practice when my shoulder..." or "I was squatting before practice when my 'insert leg ligament here' tore."
I advocate what works. I have made solid strength, hypertrophy, and conditioning gains in the past off crossfit affiliate programs.
Crossfit affiliates are not crossfit at all.
Whatever , to each his own. It just seems like a fad to me and the "thing to do" like there's a whole Crossfit culture/following thatll eventually burn out like any other fitness fad and i think it already has started its decent as i rarely hear much about it anymore compared to 3 or so years ago. A completely different fitness world I don't care to be a part of. Traditional weight lifting has been around decades and maintains it popularity and attraction because it works if done correct and the risk of injury is low if you know what your doing. Time will tell but it's my guess you're not gonna see many old crossfitters doing their thing but you always see plenty of old weight lifters still goin at it.
I completly disagree. Hardly anyone at our Millienium campus ever incurs injury during training. The professionals there understand injury prevention + proper prehab/rehab techniques + proper exercise techniques to minimalise any injury. You fail to understand that S&C programs, those developed by and monitered by S&C professionals are not your typical gym programs.
Agreed, and any s&c professional who injured their athlete in the gym would soon be an ex-s&c professional.
Where can I find this magical place where no one gets injured while training. Are there unicorns and bunnies on the walls for motivation as well? If you push yourself to the limit day in and day out on the field and in the weight room sooner or later injury will occur. Lifting heavy weights compiled with hours of on-the-field practice putting your body at risk; sooner or later somethings got to give. You can't tell me that injuries aren't common place in the weight room... I've seen it first hand all the time. I don't care how professional a S&C coach is, they can't control their athlete's bodies and how they react to constant stressors.
I think that there is a misunderstanding here. When I say people get injured in the weight room, I'm talking about in-season training, not off season training.
i would venture to say traditional weight lifting is thousands of years old. but its hard work so people dont want to do it.
so basically someone was fatigued after a workout and tried to perform a technical lift? of course they got hurt. it was not the lift that got them hurt but their ignorance on when to use the exercise. technical lifts should be done when fresh. they are skill based and should be treated with respect.
I guess what I meant to say is that it has been more structured in the main stream within last few decades. Yes, weightlifting to build strength in general is much much older.
And that is quite possible, but I am just curious as to what exercise you think has to be closer to perfect execution, especially when getting fatigued, a high rep snatch or C&J session, or a high rep leg press or squat session?
its accurate if you keep it in the context it was used in. take it out of context, like all things if one does, and it will appear like i just threatened the pope. if you read further i go one to state how it can be beneficial. so was it a shock statement, yep. will it be taken incorrectly, yep.
Actually in one particular case it was pre-workout. My buddy tore his rotator cuff at Indiana warming up doing hang power cleans, and the guy is practically the authority on the lift. It happens more than you people think, to very elite athletes, far more athletic than the average gym rat on this forum. The hang power clean which is the primary power lift in football strength training is hardly "technical." Also, we're talking about experienced athletes here who are at the second-highest level in the sport. This is no Joe Schmo doing hang power cleans because some self-proclaimed internet forum mogul told them it would increase their vertical jump and look cool at the same time. These are people who have been doing these lifts their whole lives, otherwise they wouldn't be at the top of the sport.
Injury occurs yes, but definitely not to 1 in 5 participants. You can push yourself to the limit day in and day out, but under proper control and guidance you can practically eliminate injury without compromising results. There lies a difference between pushing limits and going beyond your capabilities and hurting yourself.
This point, while perhaps accurate, is one of the reasons I dislike the idea of crossfit. CrossFit is targetted at Joe Bloggs; the marketing, the presence of CrossFit gyms everywhere eludes to this fact. Therefore there should be an obligation by XFIT coaches to provide proper training on complex lifts, a process which can take months.
It's not the high reps that I feel is dangerous anything John rep is usually light enough to handle, it's the heavy 2-5 rep exercises that I worry about. But yes snatch and any kind of jerk are the ones that need to have good form on.
I completely agree that crossfit certifications are way too easy to obtain and their marketing is dishonest. But for the experienced all-around lifter crossfit is a great idea. I support the idea of crossfit and several of the affiliate programs that are specialized such as SEALfit and Crossfit Football which are aimed at increasing strength and conditioning for the experienced athlete and not an inexperienced stay at home mom or 9-to-5 office worker.
Maybe, maybe not. But I know for everyone who has played college ball they've been injured at least once in the weight room, whether it's serious, or just a small pull, to re-occurring back pain. It's happened, besides we have a knack of not reporting injuries and continuing to play with them.
i was reading your response and was thinking, ok, he has a belief. cool. he is using examples that dont apply, but whatever that is common in debates. then i got to that part, LOL! i was like great, another fan boy. well that means im done as logic has no place in a discussion with you.
Of course injuries do occur, that is the nature of the sport in which we engage but does that mean they were all bought upon by the training program? Perhaps there was a transfer in a on-field injury to the gym environment, or perhaps someone was simply straying from what is considered ideal form. Everyone does it, often to get that extra rep or so , but in saying that, you have gone off on some random tangent.
unfortunately this is the exact reason crossfit is stupid. its targeted at the nonlifters that have zero lifting experiene because its currently a fitness fad. no insult to the serious crossfitters because they take it serious and do it right. but cmon, these last couple years of new years resolutionists joined crossfit gyms more than chain gyms because it looks more fun.
Exactly... How can people talk **** about crossfit when there's no direct correlation between the injuries and the actual program. For someone who has years of technical lift experience the program works well. If anything, knock crossfit for marketing towards the wrong kinds of people; but don't knock the ****ing programming because if you have solid S&C experience you can make great gains.
Again knock the marketing and corporate bull**** but don't knock the ****ing program. So people get hurt... big deal... but the program still works if you know what you're doing. I do, so I will take advantage of it and remain injury free because of that. As far as the other people who do get hurt doing corssfit, that sucks, and they should have been more informed as to what they're signing up for.
The great thing about experience is that you have none in neither football or crossfit... The injury rate for football is 100% for those who have made it to college and beyond. Ask around... you don't need a study to tell you that.
thanks for proving my point in my last post. fact vs belief. i have facts, oops.
Name another sport that has nearly a 20% injury rate (to where time has to be missed) from just the S&C aspect? It doesn't exist because that would mean that both the S&C coach is a moron and that the program is awful. I have had ONE injury in over 12 years of training and none in the past 9 years including 5 years of MMA and 3 years of powerlifting. This is due to training intelligently, taking the necessary time to learn the PROPER technique, and my programming.
no direct correlation? there are abundant facts about the direct correlation to injury and the program. and uhm even crossfit embraces the injuries it can entail as shown my its mascot. it seems its all about Rhabdo! and to define that:
do you think that, maybe, you are the exception to the rule when it comes to technical proficiency? it takes years to get to that point. how does crossfit deal with teaching the technique. my experience and it seems most others from reading articles about it, you throw the WOD at the person and make them do the same weights as everyone else in the world and then time them and have everyone around them cheering them on. that sounds like a recipe for disaster [belief].
can you name a sport that has the same injury rate? i posted the info already btw.
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