Crossfit injury rate

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  1. Quote Originally Posted by PROness View Post
    If I had a dollar for every time i heard someone say "I was power cleaning after practice when my shoulder..."
    so basically someone was fatigued after a workout and tried to perform a technical lift? of course they got hurt. it was not the lift that got them hurt but their ignorance on when to use the exercise. technical lifts should be done when fresh. they are skill based and should be treated with respect.

    if we continue on the path of looking at weight lifting, the olympic one, we see very low injury rates for those competitors. it is my understanding that olympic lifting as a sport has a lower injury rate then most any sport, including sports like tennis. so to say weight lifting is bad is like saying guns kill people. yes i went there. guns and weight lifting are tools so dont be a tool and learn to use your tools.

    im going to really be controversial now and state that crossfit kills. it kills more dreams than it makes. it injuries way too many people from arrogance and ignorance. is it better then nothing, well of course. if it gets someone off the couch and started on a path to their goals, great! we can only hope that person see it as a magic pill that has a short life span and gets on with what has been around for thousands of years due to its effectiveness, traditional weight training.
    you can call me "ozzie" for short.


  2. Quote Originally Posted by asooneyeonig View Post

    i would venture to say traditional weight lifting is thousands of years old. but its hard work so people dont want to do it.

    and i can sure attest to old strongman competitors still lifting. i have competed in some USAWA events and there are guys up in the 70s that compete that still blow away what i could do at nearly half their age.
    I guess what I meant to say is that it has been more structured in the main stream within last few decades. Yes, weightlifting to build strength in general is much much older.
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  3. Did that dude up there just say CF kills?? I think that may be overboard just a touch

  4. Still kicking, crossfit for a year and half now WITH a torn ACL from football. It's all about being careful and setting up for a lift to keep from being injured. I have strengthened my legs just as well with crossfit as strength training.

  5. Quote Originally Posted by Xfit10 View Post
    It's all about being careful and setting up for a lift to keep from being injured. I have strengthened my legs just as well with crossfit as strength training.
    And that is quite possible, but I am just curious as to what exercise you think has to be closer to perfect execution, especially when getting fatigued, a high rep snatch or C&J session, or a high rep leg press or squat session?
    I mean doesn't it take more to set up for the technical lifts than say a regular exercise without a plyo type move involved?
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  6. Quote Originally Posted by Wrivest View Post
    Did that dude up there just say CF kills?? I think that may be overboard just a touch
    its accurate if you keep it in the context it was used in. take it out of context, like all things if one does, and it will appear like i just threatened the pope. if you read further i go one to state how it can be beneficial. so was it a shock statement, yep. will it be taken incorrectly, yep.
    you can call me "ozzie" for short.

  7. Quote Originally Posted by asooneyeonig View Post
    so basically someone was fatigued after a workout and tried to perform a technical lift? of course they got hurt. it was not the lift that got them hurt but their ignorance on when to use the exercise. technical lifts should be done when fresh. they are skill based and should be treated with respect.

    if we continue on the path of looking at weight lifting, the olympic one, we see very low injury rates for those competitors. it is my understanding that olympic lifting as a sport has a lower injury rate then most any sport, including sports like tennis. so to say weight lifting is bad is like saying guns kill people. yes i went there. guns and weight lifting are tools so dont be a tool and learn to use your tools.

    im going to really be controversial now and state that crossfit kills. it kills more dreams than it makes. it injuries way too many people from arrogance and ignorance. is it better then nothing, well of course. if it gets someone off the couch and started on a path to their goals, great! we can only hope that person see it as a magic pill that has a short life span and gets on with what has been around for thousands of years due to its effectiveness, traditional weight training.
    Actually in one particular case it was pre-workout. My buddy tore his rotator cuff at Indiana warming up doing hang power cleans, and the guy is practically the authority on the lift. It happens more than you people think, to very elite athletes, far more athletic than the average gym rat on this forum. The hang power clean which is the primary power lift in football strength training is hardly "technical." Also, we're talking about experienced athletes here who are at the second-highest level in the sport. This is no Joe Schmo doing hang power cleans because some self-proclaimed internet forum mogul told them it would increase their vertical jump and look cool at the same time. These are people who have been doing these lifts their whole lives, otherwise they wouldn't be at the top of the sport.

    Secondly, crossfit does not kill by any means if done correctly. Where you begin to see problems is in beginners who have no prior PL and OLY experience thrown into the frying pan with no proper training or a pot to piss in. I have been OLY and PL since I was 14 and I have never been injured from crossfit. Hell, there's been times where I could barely walk or I felt like a was going to die of hyperventilation, but never have I been injured to the point where I've missed a workout.

    The bottom line is, as I stated earlier, until you do the program for a respectable amount of time you're opinion is irrelevant. Period. This is the blind leading the blind.

  8. Quote Originally Posted by PROness View Post
    Where can I find this magical place where no one gets injured while training. Are there unicorns and bunnies on the walls for motivation as well? If you push yourself to the limit day in and day out on the field and in the weight room sooner or later injury will occur. Lifting heavy weights compiled with hours of on-the-field practice putting your body at risk; sooner or later somethings got to give. You can't tell me that injuries aren't common place in the weight room... I've seen it first hand all the time. I don't care how professional a S&C coach is, they can't control their athlete's bodies and how they react to constant stressors.


    Obviously you no nothing about football, because when I say we live in the weight room and on the field, I'm not kidding. No one ever tells you that when you sign up for pee-wee football that years down the road you've sold your body to the gridiron devil in exchange to legally beat the living **** out of other people with your head and shoulders.
    Injury occurs yes, but definitely not to 1 in 5 participants. You can push yourself to the limit day in and day out, but under proper control and guidance you can practically eliminate injury without compromising results. There lies a difference between pushing limits and going beyond your capabilities and hurting yourself.

    Injuries are not common in the environment in which I train; yes, injury's occur in gyms for people not under supervision or guidance or following specific individualised programs, but where I work, that is rarely, if ever the case.

    I play Rugby, so yes I understand the environment completely. Injury occurs on the field, that I have no doubt. But hardly ever occurs in the weight room.

    Serious Nutrition Solutions Representative
    X-gels for strength, Focus XT for mental performance & Joint Support XT for pain free mobility

  9. Quote Originally Posted by PROness View Post
    Actually in one particular case it was pre-workout. My buddy tore his rotator cuff at Indiana warming up doing hang power cleans, and the guy is practically the authority on the lift. It happens more than you people think, to very elite athletes, far more athletic than the average gym rat on this forum. The hang power clean which is the primary power lift in football strength training is hardly "technical." Also, we're talking about experienced athletes here who are at the second-highest level in the sport. This is no Joe Schmo doing hang power cleans because some self-proclaimed internet forum mogul told them it would increase their vertical jump and look cool at the same time. These are people who have been doing these lifts their whole lives, otherwise they wouldn't be at the top of the sport.

    Secondly, crossfit does not kill by any means if done correctly. Where you begin to see problems is in beginners who have no prior PL and OLY experience thrown into the frying pan with no proper training or a pot to piss in. I have been OLY and PL since I was 14 and I have never been injured from crossfit. Hell, there's been times where I could barely walk or I felt like a was going to die of hyperventilation, but never have I been injured to the point where I've missed a workout.

    The bottom line is, as I stated earlier, until you do the program for a respectable amount of time you're opinion is irrelevant. Period. This is the blind leading the blind.
    This point, while perhaps accurate, is one of the reasons I dislike the idea of crossfit. CrossFit is targetted at Joe Bloggs; the marketing, the presence of CrossFit gyms everywhere eludes to this fact. Therefore there should be an obligation by XFIT coaches to provide proper training on complex lifts, a process which can take months.
    Serious Nutrition Solutions Representative
    X-gels for strength, Focus XT for mental performance & Joint Support XT for pain free mobility

  10. Quote Originally Posted by PaulBlack View Post

    And that is quite possible, but I am just curious as to what exercise you think has to be closer to perfect execution, especially when getting fatigued, a high rep snatch or C&J session, or a high rep leg press or squat session?
    I mean doesn't it take more to set up for the technical lifts than say a regular exercise without a plyo type move involved?
    It's not the high reps that I feel is dangerous anything John rep is usually light enough to handle, it's the heavy 2-5 rep exercises that I worry about. But yes snatch and any kind of jerk are the ones that need to have good form on.

  11. Quote Originally Posted by Jiigzz View Post
    This point, while perhaps accurate, is one of the reasons I dislike the idea of crossfit. CrossFit is targetted at Joe Bloggs; the marketing, the presence of CrossFit gyms everywhere eludes to this fact. Therefore there should be an obligation by XFIT coaches to provide proper training on complex lifts, a process which can take months.
    I completely agree that crossfit certifications are way too easy to obtain and their marketing is dishonest. But for the experienced all-around lifter crossfit is a great idea. I support the idea of crossfit and several of the affiliate programs that are specialized such as SEALfit and Crossfit Football which are aimed at increasing strength and conditioning for the experienced athlete and not an inexperienced stay at home mom or 9-to-5 office worker.

    I think that crossfit mainsite is bogus but I support the idea that their affiliates send of solid strength programming combined with brutal conditioning for those who can take the demands.

  12. A couple of articles about why crossfit can be dangerous especially with novices.

    http://www.scienceofrunning.com/2012...rints-and.html

    http://convictionwp.weebly.com/1/pos...s-me-nuts.html

    http://nunnsperformancetraining.blog...-crossfit.html

    Just something's to think about.

    Peace

  13. Quote Originally Posted by Jiigzz View Post
    Injury occurs yes, but definitely not to 1 in 5 participants. You can push yourself to the limit day in and day out, but under proper control and guidance you can practically eliminate injury without compromising results. There lies a difference between pushing limits and going beyond your capabilities and hurting yourself.

    Injuries are not common in the environment in which I train; yes, injury's occur in gyms for people not under supervision or guidance or following specific individualised programs, but where I work, that is rarely, if ever the case.

    I play Rugby, so yes I understand the environment completely. Injury occurs on the field, that I have no doubt. But hardly ever occurs in the weight room.
    Maybe, maybe not. But I know for everyone who has played college ball they've been injured at least once in the weight room, whether it's serious, or just a small pull, to re-occurring back pain. It's happened, besides we have a knack of not reporting injuries and continuing to play with them.

    What I'm trying to say is that when you spend as much time (10 years at least) playing a sport that demands constant strength training and conditioning in a physically demanding environment on the field, injuries are inevitable, both in the weight room and on the field. It's just a part of the sport and anyone who's played at this level or higher will tell you. Just because an injury isn't reported doesn't mean it never happened, and in football injury is the kiss of death so we do all we can to hide it if it does occur.

    Just my experience.

  14. Quote Originally Posted by PROness View Post
    The bottom line is, as I stated earlier, until you do the program for a respectable amount of time you're opinion is irrelevant. Period. This is the blind leading the blind.
    i was reading your response and was thinking, ok, he has a belief. cool. he is using examples that dont apply, but whatever that is common in debates. then i got to that part, LOL! i was like great, another fan boy. well that means im done as logic has no place in a discussion with you.

    here is a fact:
    Epidemiology of Collegiate Injuries for 15 Sports: Summary and Recommendations for Injury Prevention Initiatives
    from that we can see the highest injury rate of the sports looked at was football. which was 35.9 out of every 1,000 players. thats a huge 3.59% of players. crossfit was 20% which is 5.57 times higher injury rate than a sport that is all about impact. i love facts.

    the great thing about science is it does not need your belief to exist as fact. and seeing as how its belief vs fact here there is nothing more to say. something learned in my times a sales person, you cannot change anyones mind. you can only give them new information and allow them to make a new decision.
    you can call me "ozzie" for short.

  15. Quote Originally Posted by PROness View Post
    Maybe, maybe not. But I know for everyone who has played college ball they've been injured at least once in the weight room, whether it's serious, or just a small pull, to re-occurring back pain. It's happened, besides we have a knack of not reporting injuries and continuing to play with them.

    What I'm trying to say is that when you spend as much time (10 years at least) playing a sport that demands constant strength training and conditioning in a physically demanding environment on the field, injuries are inevitable, both in the weight room and on the field. It's just a part of the sport and anyone who's played at this level or higher will tell you. Just because an injury isn't reported doesn't mean it never happened, and in football injury is the kiss of death so we do all we can to hide it if it does occur.

    Just my experience.
    Of course injuries do occur, that is the nature of the sport in which we engage but does that mean they were all bought upon by the training program? Perhaps there was a transfer in a on-field injury to the gym environment, or perhaps someone was simply straying from what is considered ideal form. Everyone does it, often to get that extra rep or so , but in saying that, you have gone off on some random tangent.

    Rodja had a good blog on CrossFit that addressed some really good issues; I tried linking to it but it has been moved. In any case, metabolic stress =/= a good workout or even a productive workout, and often the two are confused together. A good program is highly individualised, has good monitoring + progression schemes, the S&C coaches are adequetly trained in injury + identifying weak links and allow for multi-planal exercises.

    Injuries are common in the sporting world, yes. But that is not the point of the discussion.
    Serious Nutrition Solutions Representative
    X-gels for strength, Focus XT for mental performance & Joint Support XT for pain free mobility

  16. Quote Originally Posted by PROness View Post
    Where you begin to see problems is in beginners who have no prior PL and OLY experience thrown into the frying pan with no proper training or a pot to piss in.
    unfortunately this is the exact reason crossfit is stupid. its targeted at the nonlifters that have zero lifting experiene because its currently a fitness fad. no insult to the serious crossfitters because they take it serious and do it right. but cmon, these last couple years of new years resolutionists joined crossfit gyms more than chain gyms because it looks more fun.

    that and the easy certification. its actually harder to get certified as a personal trainer by one of the big 3 organizations. thats pathetic, we dont even teach olympic lifts lol

    idk how many times ive heard some fat bich in my classes talking about how they joined crossfit last month and how awsome it is. theyll quit in a couple weeks.

  17. Quote Originally Posted by Jiigzz View Post
    Of course injuries do occur, that is the nature of the sport in which we engage but does that mean they were all bought upon by the training program? Perhaps there was a transfer in a on-field injury to the gym environment, or perhaps someone was simply straying from what is considered ideal form. Everyone does it, often to get that extra rep or so , but in saying that, you have gone off on some random tangent.

    Rodja had a good blog on CrossFit that addressed some really good issues; I tried linking to it but it has been moved. In any case, metabolic stress =/= a good workout or even a productive workout, and often the two are confused together. A good program is highly individualised, has good monitoring + progression schemes, the S&C coaches are adequetly trained in injury + identifying weak links and allow for multi-planal exercises.

    Injuries are common in the sporting world, yes. But that is not the point of the discussion.
    Exactly... How can people talk **** about crossfit when there's no direct correlation between the injuries and the actual program. For someone who has years of technical lift experience the program works well. If anything, knock crossfit for marketing towards the wrong kinds of people; but don't knock the ****ing programming because if you have solid S&C experience you can make great gains.

    Had you read my previous posts you would see the point, that being that saying that the idea of crossfit (essentially it's own sport now) is unproductive and irresponsible (according to some...) due to injuries is like saying the idea of football S&C and other contact sports that have high incidences of injuries in the weight room (no matter the reason) are unproductive and irresponsible.

    If people are going to knock crossfit because people get hurt then they might as well knock every other sport that has similar incidences of injury in the weight room. Was that hard to understand?

  18. Quote Originally Posted by OnionKnight View Post
    unfortunately this is the exact reason crossfit is stupid. its targeted at the nonlifters that have zero lifting experiene because its currently a fitness fad. no insult to the serious crossfitters because they take it serious and do it right. but cmon, these last couple years of new years resolutionists joined crossfit gyms more than chain gyms because it looks more fun.

    that and the easy certification. its actually harder to get certified as a personal trainer by one of the big 3 organizations. thats pathetic, we dont even teach olympic lifts lol

    idk how many times ive heard some fat bich in my classes talking about how they joined crossfit last month and how awsome it is. theyll quit in a couple weeks.
    Again knock the marketing and corporate bull**** but don't knock the ****ing program. So people get hurt... big deal... but the program still works if you know what you're doing. I do, so I will take advantage of it and remain injury free because of that. As far as the other people who do get hurt doing corssfit, that sucks, and they should have been more informed as to what they're signing up for.

  19. Quote Originally Posted by asooneyeonig View Post
    i was reading your response and was thinking, ok, he has a belief. cool. he is using examples that dont apply, but whatever that is common in debates. then i got to that part, LOL! i was like great, another fan boy. well that means im done as logic has no place in a discussion with you.

    here is a fact:
    [insert inaccurate study here]
    from that we can see the highest injury rate of the sports looked at was football. which was 35.9 out of every 1,000 players. thats a huge 3.59% of players. crossfit was 20% which is 5.57 times higher injury rate than a sport that is all about impact. i love facts.

    the great thing about science is it does not need your belief to exist as fact. and seeing as how its belief vs fact here there is nothing more to say. something learned in my times a sales person, you cannot change anyones mind. you can only give them new information and allow them to make a new decision.
    The great thing about experience is that you have none in neither football or crossfit... The injury rate for football is 100% for those who have made it to college and beyond. Ask around... you don't need a study to tell you that.

    So you going to tell me how to wrong-arm a tight end now? I bet there are some studies on that you could pull up and teach me how to do it. Also while you're at it why don't you tell me how I should pass block as a right guard in a 4 man front, stack package, with a blitzing mike and sam. See my point now... experience, you have none, and no study you could ever find will tell you the answer to those two questions, unless you've been in the shoes of a player.

    BTW not every injury is reported that occurs, especially in football. So there is a great degree of uncertainty and error in your study. Not to mention most scientific studies carry a very high degree of bias. Also your study doesn't account for the players' entire career... but that's another argument.

  20. Quote Originally Posted by PROness View Post
    The great thing about experience is that you have none in neither football or crossfit.
    thanks for proving my point in my last post. fact vs belief. i have facts, oops.

    and who says i dont have experience in either? thats a bold [and false] accusation and is common from those on the loosing end of a debate. and what does the injury rate of crossfit have to do with my experience of football or crossfit? or with the facts i mentioned either?

    by definition a fact is, as shown on dictionary.com:
    1.something that actually exists; reality; truth.

    2.something known to exist or to have happened.

    3.a truth known by actual experience or observation; something known to be true.

    4. something said to be true or supposed to have happened:

    belief, as shown on dictionary.com:
    1.something believed; an opinion or conviction.

    2.confidence in the truth or existence of something not immediately susceptible to rigorous proof.

    3.confidence; faith; trust: a child's belief in his parents.

    4. a religious tenet or tenets; religious creed or faith.

    you accused me of having no experience of football or crossfit. you make that statement in an attempt of being fact. how did you prove that information? if its not a fact, its false, or a belief which does go along with other beliefs you have so i can understand that.

    also, did you miss the part where i talked about the merits of crossfit? how it can help people? or did you do exactly what, in the same post, i said was likely going to happen. that someone would take what i said in a small part of the post out of context, which you did [accusation]. so if you are disagreeing with me does that mean you believe that crossfit has no merit? cause i do believe it has a purpose. i also believe it has many shortcomings as most fads do. i can say one of its major strengths is a great marketing department.

    i also believe you have a strong conviction to crossfit and no one, even with the truth, will change your mind. to a degree i find that commendable. beliefs and hope are a great thing and more people need that kind of conviction. now i do relate this to a fanboy level like apple products or zealots like in religions. their fanaticism ignores many facts and that is the great thing about facts, it does not require your belief to be the truth. i just hope you realize someday that there are many things wrong with crossfit and push more towards fixing it then blindly following it (yes i used your incorrect attempt of a phrase against you). and i hope others reading this post see the pros and cons of crossfit as based upon fact and not blind faith.
    you can call me "ozzie" for short.

  21. Quote Originally Posted by Jiigzz View Post
    Of course injuries do occur, that is the nature of the sport in which we engage but does that mean they were all bought upon by the training program? Perhaps there was a transfer in a on-field injury to the gym environment, or perhaps someone was simply straying from what is considered ideal form. Everyone does it, often to get that extra rep or so , but in saying that, you have gone off on some random tangent.

    Rodja had a good blog on CrossFit that addressed some really good issues; I tried linking to it but it has been moved. In any case, metabolic stress =/= a good workout or even a productive workout, and often the two are confused together. A good program is highly individualised, has good monitoring + progression schemes, the S&C coaches are adequetly trained in injury + identifying weak links and allow for multi-planal exercises.

    Injuries are common in the sporting world, yes. But that is not the point of the discussion.
    http://halcyonsc.blogspot.com/2012/0...ma-part-1.html
    http://halcyonsc.blogspot.com/2012/0...a-part-ii.html
    M.Ed. Ex Phys


  22. Quote Originally Posted by PROness View Post
    Exactly... How can people talk **** about crossfit when there's no direct correlation between the injuries and the actual program. For someone who has years of technical lift experience the program works well. If anything, knock crossfit for marketing towards the wrong kinds of people; but don't knock the ****ing programming because if you have solid S&C experience you can make great gains.

    Had you read my previous posts you would see the point, that being that saying that the idea of crossfit (essentially it's own sport now) is unproductive and irresponsible (according to some...) due to injuries is like saying the idea of football S&C and other contact sports that have high incidences of injuries in the weight room (no matter the reason) are unproductive and irresponsible.

    If people are going to knock crossfit because people get hurt then they might as well knock every other sport that has similar incidences of injury in the weight room. Was that hard to understand?
    Name another sport that has nearly a 20% injury rate (to where time has to be missed) from just the S&C aspect? It doesn't exist because that would mean that both the S&C coach is a moron and that the program is awful. I have had ONE injury in over 12 years of training and none in the past 9 years including 5 years of MMA and 3 years of powerlifting. This is due to training intelligently, taking the necessary time to learn the PROPER technique, and my programming.
    M.Ed. Ex Phys


  23. Quote Originally Posted by PROness View Post
    Exactly... How can people talk **** about crossfit when there's no direct correlation between the injuries and the actual program.
    no direct correlation? there are abundant facts about the direct correlation to injury and the program. and uhm even crossfit embraces the injuries it can entail as shown my its mascot. it seems its all about Rhabdo! and to define that:
    http://www.nlm.nih.gov/medlineplus/e...cle/000473.htm
    Rhabdomyolysis is the breakdown of muscle fibers that leads to the release of muscle fiber contents (myoglobin) into the bloodstream. Myoglobin is harmful to the kidney and often causes kidney damage.

    rhabdo is NOT a good thing. it is bad. that is a fact. if you want to argue that then it would seem that you think its a good thing.


    Quote Originally Posted by PROness View Post
    For someone who has years of technical lift experience the program works well. If anything, knock crossfit for marketing towards the wrong kinds of people; but don't knock the ****ing programming because if you have solid S&C experience you can make great gains.
    do you think that, maybe, you are the exception to the rule when it comes to technical proficiency? it takes years to get to that point. how does crossfit deal with teaching the technique. my experience and it seems most others from reading articles about it, you throw the WOD at the person and make them do the same weights as everyone else in the world and then time them and have everyone around them cheering them on. that sounds like a recipe for disaster [belief].

    you may never get injured from it and that is awesome. good for you. now for the other 99.99999% of the world that does crossfit, are they conditioned with years of practice? are they technically advanced with years of practice? i can answer an honest NO to both. that is the problem. you are doing the same WOD as a couch potato.


    Quote Originally Posted by PROness View Post
    If people are going to knock crossfit because people get hurt then they might as well knock every other sport that has similar incidences of injury in the weight room. Was that hard to understand?
    can you name a sport that has the same injury rate? i posted the info already btw.
    you can call me "ozzie" for short.

  24. We have a few crossfit/functional trainers at my gym and they crack me up. They use the same training routine with each client, right down to reps, pace, resistance etc regardless of their clients age, gender or fitness level. Week after week....same damn thing for every victim that walks in the door.
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