Does Weightlifting Satisfy the "20 minutes before fat burn" need?

[Harry Seaward]

Hey all - Just been doing this new training regimen, where basically instead of doing

(1) cardio warmup
(2) Weights (either Back / Abs, Chest / Bi's, Shoulders / Tri's, or Legs)
(3) cardio

I've been doing:

AM: Warmup - Bi's - Cardio
PM: Warmup - Chest - Cardio

This way I can fit in more burned calories and focus on the muscle being worked on more.

***My question is this***:

General knowledge says that it takes 20 minutes of cardio before you start to burn fat, SO, does doing a 7-min cardio warmup, then 20+ min of weightlifting satisfy the requirement so that most of the cardio at the end is burning fat?

In other words, does weightlifting count towards the 20 minutes before fat burn really starts, or does the 20-min before fat-burn have to be cardio???

Thanks in advance for any input!!!

 

[hvactech]

youre completely overthinking this. whats your diet like? where did you get the "20 minutes" from? whats your training layout?

 

[Harry Seaward]

youre completely overthinking this. whats your diet like? where did you get the "20 minutes" from? whats your training layout?

You're right that those are more important, BUT I'm curious about the question I asked. I'm sure you know it's long been (and maybe there's new information about it that's why I'm asking) held that, if you're doing cardio, the first 10-20 min of running / stair master / bike or whatever, you're mostly using glycogen as fuel, whereas after the 20 min mark you are using much more of your fat storage as energy.

So...what I'm wondering is, if you do ~30 min of weightlifting first (which you use your glycogen storage for), is that like running for 20 min first (in that you burn primarily fat / use fat as fuel for the cardio session at the end of the workout)?.

My diet is: approx. 250-275 g protein, 350-400 g carbs (try for 30-40 g fiber), 75 - 100 g fat and about 3300 - 3600 cal.

My workout program or specifically cardio program is currently doing 350 cal cardio before work in the AM (mostly after lifting), and 350 cal in the PM also most of it after lifting. This way, I'm doing 700 cal / day about 5 days / week, so I've been burning 3500 cal / wk which = 1 LB of fat / wk.

Anyway, the main question is, am I using fat as the main energy source when I'm doing cardio after lifting for at least 30 min?

Thanks again

 

[asooneyeonig]

you are overthinking things and not looking at a bigger picture. you can burn as many calories as you want during your "cardio" and eat a cupcake and pack it all back on.

as for the 20 minutes and you burn mostly fat, where did that come from? i dont think i have ever heard that before. i do know that most people look at the whole fat burning zone all kinds of wrong. most people think slow is better for fat burning and fast hard cardio is more for glucose usage. in a way yes, in a way no.

lets think of your training as how much money someone has and how much you get. long slow cardio has $100 and when you are done you get 60% of that. fast hard cardio has $200 and you get only get a measly 30% of that. most people neglect completely the total amount and focus on the percentage. what they dont see is that fast and hard you get more of a total and more if not as much fat burned.

then there is the response over the next 24-48 hours. again lets go back to money. after 48 hours you can take another cut and the total gains interest. the long slow gains 5% while the fast hard gains 25%. now you get the same percentage of whats left. over the 2 days the 200 goes up to 250 and you get $62.50. the slow goes up to $105 and you get $5.25. which really makes fast and hard seem even more appealing. back to calories it burns more calories from fat and more calories overall. sounds superior to me.

to back that up i offer this:
Explosive lifting burns more calories than slow lifting. Squats – explosive movement burns 12% more than slow squats
Eu J Appli Physol 99: 257, 2007

HIIT builds fitness faster. 30 min @ 60% vs 10x4 @ 90% w/ 2 min rest. Aerobic capacity increased by 13%, fat burning capacity up by 36%, and key aerobic enzymes increased by 25
Journal Applied Physilogy, 102: 1439-1447, 2007

High intensity weight training boosts blood sugar control.
-Strength training increases fat metabolism by stimulating beta-adrenic receptors – cell structures that make adrenaline and increase metabolism and fat use.
-Improves blood sugar metabolism
-Univ. of Montana, led by Andy Miller showed that high intensity/low volume weight training promoted better blood sugar regulation than low intensity/high volume work.
Journal Strength Conditioning Research, 21: 330-335, 2007

 

[asooneyeonig]

Anyway, the main question is, am I using fat as the main energy source when I'm doing cardio after lifting for at least 30 min?

you are always using fat and glucose as fuel source. yes its on a sliding scale buts its not so black and white.

My diet is: approx. 250-275 g protein, 350-400 g carbs (try for 30-40 g fiber), 75 - 100 g fat and about 3300 - 3600 cal.

here is something to bake your noodle, im going to guess by your question that you want to burn more bodyfat. so why are you eating so many carbs?? on those calories i would eat that many carbs in an attempt to bulk or fuel myself for long endurance events. if i were you i would cut those carbs in half if not a lot more so. and up that fat up to compensate.

i say that as when you eat blood sugar levels go up. when that happens insuling goes up to lower that massive increase in blood sugar and stores the extra fuel as body fat. the higher and faster the spike of blood sugar the more insulin is needed and therefore the more body fat is stored. carbs increase blood sugar the fastest and the the highest. so why eat a lot of something that causes fat storage.

i also know that when insulin is in use to rid blood sugar of excessive sugar and is storing that stuff in body fat you cannot pull from body fat to be used as fuel. so you want to minimize that increase in blood sugar and minimize that insulin spike.

does that make sense?

 

[Harry Seaward]

you are always using fat and glucose as fuel source. yes its on a sliding scale buts its not so black and white.





here is something to bake your noodle, im going to guess by your question that you want to burn more bodyfat. so why are you eating so many carbs?? on those calories i would eat that many carbs in an attempt to bulk or fuel myself for long endurance events. if i were you i would cut those carbs in half if not a lot more so. and up that fat up to compensate.

i say that as when you eat blood sugar levels go up. when that happens insuling goes up to lower that massive increase in blood sugar and stores the extra fuel as body fat. the higher and faster the spike of blood sugar the more insulin is needed and therefore the more body fat is stored. carbs increase blood sugar the fastest and the the highest. so why eat a lot of something that causes fat storage.

i also know that when insulin is in use to rid blood sugar of excessive sugar and is storing that stuff in body fat you cannot pull from body fat to be used as fuel. so you want to minimize that increase in blood sugar and minimize that insulin spike.

does that make sense?

OK that makes sense, thanks again.

Now that you mention it yeah I have cut back carbs, just not that much (that's been my diet for a long time my diet the past 6 weeks has been more like 300 - 325 carbs / 250 protein / 75 fat but it's not always on point like that, sometimes a little more sometimes a little less).

I just never used to do ANY cardio, and if you look at my pics, although I'm not "shredded", for doing zero cardio I think I have been pretty lucky.

My reasoning for my new cardio plan is that as long as I burn about 700 cal / day, and keep my diet the same or a bit tighter, I should definitely lean up and so far I've lost about 6 lbs, probably mostly water but hopefully it should be a couple lbs of fat in there.

You're right that I'm focusing too much on the %, and I understand that high / interval training is much better, although due to an ankle injury I can't really run hard or even bike fast, but I can keep a slow and steady cardio for 30 min.

Thanks

 

[asooneyeonig]

there is more to cardio than just running or biking. one of my fav things to do is to set a timer for 1 minute intervals for 1o minutes. take a heavy KB and do 10 swings for a minute, each minute, for that 10 minutes. ohh and good luck, lol. its way harder than you think.

or you can do tabata squats. carry heavy farmers. flip tractor tires. swing a sledge hammer.

i used to be one of those guys to promote cardio for fat loss. anymore, i promote cardio/conditioning to improve your capacity for weight training. which IMO will do more for body composition change then just cardio. and let diet decide bulk or cutting.

read up on carb backloading and intermittent fasting as well.