Lactic Acid Training

[Docmattic]

Hey Guys,

I am aiming to change my routine up every month, concentrating on a different method of hypertrophy. This month I am planning to get as much lactic acid build up as i can in my routine. My first month was tension, the second month was decreasing workout and rest time from (60 seconds to 30 seconds over the month) while still using the same or more weight.

I just wanted to check in and make sure that what i have planned to do will promote lactic acid buildup.

Essentially, My workout is 2-3 massive rest-pause sets.
For example I start with a weight i can do 15-20 reps for on bench press (lets say 70kg)
I do the reps (close to failure), pause, rack for 5 seconds or so, then pump out as many more as i can and continue this until i get to a rep count of 75.
Then on the next exercise, choose a weight i can initially do 10 reps of and do the same until 60 reps
Then on the last exersise pic a weight i can do 6-8 of and do the same until 50 reps.

Does this look like a good way to build lactic acid?

 

[Docmattic]

Anyone have any thoughts?

Well, I'll be giving this a go today.

I'll be doing back.

I'll try it with
Lat pulldowns (i dont think i could manage pullups in this rep range.)
Barbell rows
Deadlifts.

 

[CJ_Xfit89]

Look up lactic acid training by Poliquin.

http://www.t-nation.com/free_online_article/sports_body_training_performance/lactic_acid_training_for_fat_loss

-Chris
EBF Rep
Mobile App

 

[NeighbourMike]

Let me say that from what I'm reading I'm imaging you doing somewhere between 6 sets per exercise. Now I could go through my textbooks to find the appropriate set range for hypertrophy, but I wanted to address something first.

You want to train for maximum lactic acid buildup, which lactic acid is the by product of working a muscle group. You can create lactic acid from doing any type of training, be it low/medium/high rep this I can guarantee you to the absolute. You look lean so clearly you are used to this type of training by now, and changing rest time will not adequately change lactic acid buildup.


By lowering your rest from 60-30 seconds, and maintaining weight you are effectively increasing your endurance by upping intensity. That is all. But by doing supersets essentially working for around 30seconds-2minutes of active work, you are maximizing time under tension which is a precept of hypertrophy, but you are using oxidative hybrid energy system to accomplish this.

Let me explain using exercise science facts;

strength work (3-6 Rep Range) which is 6-30 seconds of work - Utilizing phosphagen energy system = Highest capacity for ATP production also fastest rate of atp production = Using your active stores which tires you out quickly

Hypertrophy (8-12 rep range) which is 30-2 minutes of work - Utilizing fast glycolysis energy system = High capacity = Fast Rate Of ATP

Endurance (15+ rep range) 2-3 minutes of work - Utilizing glycolysis/oxidative hybrid energy system(s) = Moderate Capacity = Slow Rate Of ATP

You see, racking the weight for 5 seconds does not give any system time for ATP to be recharged. Strength typically has rest periods of 1-2 minutes, hypertrophy 30-60 seconds, and endurance 30 seconds max.

You are aiming for hypertrophy, and clearly want "high lactic acid" so if you enjoy high reps and thats what lights your fire to get you in the gym go for that. Yet working in a glycolysis/oxidative system which is utilized for endurance training is clearly not your goal. This is counterintuitive to your goals..

Better to work in a complete glycolysis (fast) increase weight to where you can manage 8-12 (which essentially you are but it's clearly too easy because you are not getting any rest, you should need the rest) take the 20-30 seconds between sets to ensure your body has some time to recoup, then blast away again.

That way your still doing 18 sets but again, getting maximum gains. you should also add in more variety of exercise selection to stimulate muscle growth, in terms of different grips, angles etc. Try doing 2-3 exercise of 3 sets per main muscle areas (lats, low back, mid/high back). I personally would say try going for a month strength while simultaneously increasing your carbs and alternating your macro variables. It's actually quite alot of fun and you'll see great changes and really get to test yourself, and this can adequately add to the level of progression to jump over plateaus.

I Hope this helped you, if not some is bound to get something from this.

Cheers,

 

[CJ_Xfit89]

Look into athletic GBC.

-Chris
EBF Rep
Mobile App

 

[ZiR RED]

Mike covered some great stuff in that post.

To piggy back on it, that type of high-endurance training will also be associated with fiber type interconversions from type IIA to IIC, which are smaller and have a lower capacity for protein synthesis and hypertrophy.

Br

 

[Docmattic]

Thanks for the response everyone. I thought i posted a reply but i clearly forgot.

After reading all the posts, mike's very in depth response made a lot of sense! So, After looking at the program runner suggested i saw that it targeted the three rep ranges mike referred to. I gave it a go....Love it!

I decided i would cut for two weeks after an 8 week bulk. I dont know if i should extend it to three because of the results im seeing. Workouts are over fast (chest and back took 35 mins), make me feel like puking (especially legs) for hours afterwards, and i still have enough energy for 12 mins of HIIT +3 mins coodown at the end. For two weeks, I'm seeing changes that usually take 1 month plus...but i can still lift heavy weight and eat more (low gi) carbs than when i normally cut. Its great.

I wonder how this routine would go as a lean bulk or rotated through twice per week instead of 1. I think the results would be interesting.

 

[russy_russ]

In actuality, we do not produce lactic acid. We produce lactate. Lactate is the deprotonated form of lactic acid (one less proton). The PKa of the carboxylic acid group on lactic acid is 3.87 while physiological pH in human skeletal muscle (even exercised muscle) does not drop much below 7.0. For a refresher when PKa and pH are equal there is a 50/50 protonation/deprotonation state. At 1 PKa factor less than pH, there is a 90% deprotonation and 10% protonation. So, given that, lactic acid is never produced to dissociate a proton. It's produced as lactate, similar to pyruvate and phosphoenolpyruvate (carboxylates). Protons that accumulate during exercise are primarily associated with the hydrolysis of ATP. the H2O that breaks the phosphoanhydride bond at the gamma phosphate of ATP where the OH binds to the inorganic phosphate cleaving group and an electron from the left over hydrogen is donated to the terminal oxygen of the ADP molecule left, leaving a proton. So break down of 1 molecule of glucose results in hydrolysis of 2 ATP molecules (production of 2 protons [H+]). Now, NAD+ can accept one proton and 2 electrons. Also, pyruvate can accept 2 protons to form lactate (a proton buffer). Inorganic phosphate can also accept 1 proton at physiolocal pH as a buffer. There is a sodium-proton transporter, and a lactate-proton transporter. So, lactate not only buffers the cell from a decrease in pH due to proton formation, it also aids in proton removal via the lactate-proton transporter. And, lactate does not cause muscle soreness. If this were the case you wouldn't seen soreness 24-48h post-exercise when lactate levels return to resting within 1-2h post-exercise. Also, you would expect soreness in skeletal muscle (primarily type I) that uptake lactate as a fuel source to be sore (i.e., in the arms after leg exercise).

 

[ZiR RED]

russy_russ: Where are you studying at?

And, if I remember correctly, beyond the rate of glycolysis, the fate of pyruvate is predominantly determined by the redox ratio, or amount of fresh NAD+ that can accept a proton. The lower the NAD:NADH ratio, the more pyruvate will be converted into Lactate and the less of it that will enter krebs.

 

[russy_russ]

It depends on the cell (LDH isoform varies) you're examining, but lactate dehydrogenase is allosterically regulated by cellular redox status-as you mentioned. LDH also has the highest Vmax of any glycolytic enzyme.

I'm studying at Georgia State University (PhD), Master's at Auburn University (Dr. Gladden)

 

[CJ_Xfit89]

Sweet reads

-Chris
EBF Rep
Mobile App

 

[ZiR RED]

I'm studying at Georgia State University (PhD), Master's at Auburn University (Dr. Gladden)

I could have guessed you were a Gladden protoge. Were you at the SEACSM, and will you be at the National ACSM conference? I presented at the SE and have a poster at the national.

 

[russy_russ]

I was at the SE, my colleague presented a poster for the doctoral award on research we had been working on. I'm planning to attend National next year. Did you present at the oral communications?

 

[ZiR RED]

I was at the SE, my colleague presented a poster for the doctoral award on research we had been working on. I'm planning to attend National next year. Did you present at the oral communications?

Yes it was oral, I presented Friday morning at 8 AM in the body composition section on my betaine research.

 

[russy_russ]

Very cool. I'd like to give an oral presentation there one day, but probably not anytime soon.

 

[ZiR RED]

Thanks. Fitting it into 10-12 minutes was a challenge that i didn't do so well on.

Here's the full presentation I gave to the Kinesiology department at Univ. Kentucky....I think as someone interested in metabolism you'll enjoy it...and also get it.

http://jasoncholewa.com/full-body-composition-presentation/

 

[russy_russ]

Very cool. Congratulations. I've been extremely busy with teaching, coursework, and lab (as you know).