Pecs
- 12-04-2012, 01:58 PM
- 12-04-2012, 02:39 PM
I have always found that if I only train with db for a while that as long as I increase strength in db press then bb will go up as well. Though the increase is not always proportionate. It also takes my body a workout or two in order to readjust.
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- 12-04-2012, 03:25 PM
- 12-04-2012, 07:24 PM
They're very different lifts and have techniques. DBs can help to strengthen weaknesses in your bench, but you still have to bench.
M.Ed. Ex Phys
- 12-05-2012, 04:30 PM
if your into bodybuilding then the weight isn't as important here but a lot of ppl have scraped the bench press all together since it's an inferior chest exercise to the db's
Best For Overall Chest Mass: Dumbbell Bench PressRecent research from Las Vegas based StrengthPro Inc., headed by David Sandler, MS, CSCS, showed that the dumbbell bench press involves the front delts far less than the barbell bench press, since the arms come out to the sides more with dumbbells. Less delt involvement means more pec stimulation, which is exactly what you want for maximal chest development.
so for bodybuilding purposes i wouldn't stress too much over the strength on barbell benchAM10 for 10% off at Mindandmuscle.com
AM10 for 10% off at Mrsupps.com -
- 12-05-2012, 05:16 PM
Originally Posted by Young Gotti
- 12-05-2012, 08:57 PM
- 12-05-2012, 10:02 PM
Originally Posted by Airborne42
- 12-05-2012, 10:04 PM
Originally Posted by NYiron
or maybe he benches and throws the bar into the air, that would make it power - 12-05-2012, 10:08 PM
A db press is a compound exercise though. Just a better chest exercise for development. I do however enjoy db or machine fly's for isolation.
I have seen BBer's not use either. I believe Ronnie Rockel in one video says he barely uses either exercise anymore and for that whole video used a press machine and a fly machineAM10 for 10% off at Mindandmuscle.com
AM10 for 10% off at Mrsupps.com - 12-05-2012, 10:09 PM
You get more power in bb then Db. Strength tho yes
Purus Labs Anabolic Titan/Rep
Coach AB @ BossBody.net
Puruslabs.net - 12-05-2012, 10:13 PM
Originally Posted by Airborne42
- 12-05-2012, 10:21 PM
- 12-05-2012, 10:28 PM
- 12-06-2012, 08:47 AM
- 12-06-2012, 09:50 AM
Originally Posted by Rodja
For example his statement involving a 500 lb bench press.
X = 500lb barbell bp x 1m/s bar speed
X = 500 Watts
Y = (90 lb Dbs) 180 lbs x 3 m/s db speed
Y = 540 watts
X < Y therefore, power is a dependent variable hinging heavily on velocity. So to say that bp is a power exercise would be incorrect it has potential to be more of a power exercise but unless completed in a certain protocol it will not necessarily be such. Clean and jerk, snatch, etc those are power exercises due to their foundations in creating high bar velocities across the board. - 12-06-2012, 10:08 AM
You still require a high amount of force to move a high resistance. It may not fit the classical example of a lift that requires high amounts of power, but you also can't compare movements when one does not have an eccentric phase. I've seen studies that show the highest rate of force development and power with only 30% of your 1RM, but is that really going to have a lot of carryover? Absolutely not.
M.Ed. Ex Phys
- 12-06-2012, 10:25 AM
Originally Posted by Rodja
Power output is a direct result of the concentric phase, the eccentric phase of a lift isn't applicable when it comes to power output so that comparison can most definitely be drawn. As far as the question of 30% 1 RM power output and carry over that in essence is more or less the basis for the west side dynamic effort days. There undoubtably will be carry over with regards to power output in submax loads and completion of 1 RM loads. - 12-06-2012, 10:42 AM
One of the primary components of power is rate of force development. You can't move a heavy weight slow, so the statement of lower power output with a heavy weight is far from correct. Regarding the lack of eccentric motion, since there is not a stretch-reflex involved in these movements (e.g. cleans), they cannot be directly compared to movements that do involve an eccentric phase (e.g. bench).
You have a general idea of how the DE day works, but you also have some incorrect information. 30% is far too low of a load to have transfer to increasing the 1RM even if accommodating resistance is added into the equation even for the 100% raw lifter. The lowest bar weight that I've ever seen recommended is 40%, but that is for highly advanced lifters and accommodating resistance is added to this. You should also know that the DE for bench in particular is slowly being phased out by many top lifters because of the lack of transfer between raw benching and shirted benching as it is very common to get ~200lbs out of a shirt.M.Ed. Ex Phys
- 12-06-2012, 11:10 AM
Exactly! Power = force x VELOCITY
You just defined power (rate of force development = joules/s = watts) which is what I have been saying across all of my posts, but you are incorrect in saying that heavy weight will be moved fast as the equation in my previous post demonstrates. Show me anyone who can bench max loads faster than submax loads. Bench presses done under max loading with inevitably have lower bar velocities when compared to bench presses done under submax loads. Max loads will produce less power no matter how you put it. Its physics higher loads require higher force but as a result the velocity will suffer. Submax loads require less force and as a result velocity will increase yielding higher power outputs.
As far as stretch reflex goes it would be an advantageous condition so in that aspect maybe it could not 100 percent be compared. I will say though that in the case of power the concentric phase is being analyzed so with that and power in mind pure physics there can be comparisons drawn.
With respect to the DE day I did not outline the protocol so to say I have misinformation wouldn't be correct and it is exactly why I chose my words "in essence and more or less" when relating it to your statement on 30% 1RM. The physiological effect of high velocity submax loading is what I was relating the DE day and you statement on 30% 1RM to. - 12-06-2012, 11:18 AM
You've missed my point despite this long diatribe. You're harping so much about the time aspect that you're ignoring that significant power is still produced at near/max loads. This position that you're taking is the exact position taken by people that do not have a great understanding about powerlifting.
M.Ed. Ex Phys
- 12-06-2012, 11:38 AM
Originally Posted by Rodja
- 12-06-2012, 11:41 AM
Ima stand by Rodja on this one! This is his practice
Purus Labs Anabolic Titan/Rep
Coach AB @ BossBody.net
Puruslabs.net - 12-06-2012, 11:52 AM
"You can't move a heavy weight slow."
- Dr Fred Hatfield
At no point did I say bar velocities will be the same, but you are taking the erroneous position that maximal weight will not have a high amount of power by comparing them to Olympic lifts, which cannot be compared due to the lack of eccentric movement and stretch reflex, or a dynamic effort, which changes immensely for a raw lifter to a geared lifter.M.Ed. Ex Phys
- 12-06-2012, 01:11 PM
Originally Posted by NYiron
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