I haven't missed your point but rather pointed out it is incorrect. The position you are taking is one that is indicative of someone that does not have a great understanding of physics applied to physiology.Originally Posted by Rodja
Ima stand by Rodja on this one! This is his practice
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At no point did I say bar velocities will be the same, but you are taking the erroneous position that maximal weight will not have a high amount of power by comparing them to Olympic lifts, which cannot be compared due to the lack of eccentric movement and stretch reflex, or a dynamic effort, which changes immensely for a raw lifter to a geared lifter.
Why are you comparing the rate of power of dumbells and barbell at different speeds. 1 m/s vs 3m/s. If you want to compare straight power both velocities should be the same right?Originally Posted by NYiron
More weight on bb = slower velocityOriginally Posted by RippedCity
Maximum power, optimal load and optimal power spectrum for power training in upper-body (bench press): a review - Editorial Elsevier
Thats exactly my point the bar velocities will not be the same. No matter what you will move a max load slower than a submax load. The loss of velocity associated with the higher load will result in a reduced power output no matter how you put it. With a lighter load the higher bar velocity will produce a higher power output.
No, i haven't taken "the erroneous" stance that max weight will not have a high amount of power out through comparison with olympic lifts, that doesn't make any sense. I took the stance that 1RM pressing will not have a high power output because of decreased bar velocity. I made the statement concerning olympic lifts as a clarifier as to what constitutes a power exercise. Olympic lifts emphasize bar velocity across the board submax and max while, bench press does not unless it is completed under speed bench protocols, and that caveat to my stance was mentioned several times.
Bar speed may be emphasized but unless it occurs power output will be low. Thats saying, "I thought about going to the gym today but I didn't does it still count as a workout?"
We are the only two discussing the subject so how could anyone else say anything about max force output in regards to bar weight? While it may be myopic thats what is being discussed the ability to produce power under max force output. The reference to max bench press as a power exercise is what is being questioned, so Im not sure where you were going with that one.
Lastly never did I claim to be an expert on the conjugate method, so your personal attack on my scope means nothing, I raised one point which you, yourself, have just validated in saying "This is the most important aspect of the dynamic effort; not the load itself, but the bar speed" as my statement concerned DE and submax loading in effort to create torque and power.
Just curious as well what medical or strength and conditioning governing body advocates the powerlifting bench press form as proper? Not to say it isn't most effective but I'd like to see which advocates for it NSCA, ACSM?Originally Posted by Rodja
Your straw man is awful on the analogy, but that's another issue altogether. Like I've already said several times, but you can't seem to grasp, just because it doesn't fall under the classical tense of a "power" exercise does not mean that a 1RM will not move significant power to it. Will be equal or great than a submaximal load? Probably not, but that is not the point and, regarding the dynamic effort, the primary reason for its development was because you can only have so many days devoted to maximal strength and, for raw lifters, the recommendations are much higher than what would fall under "power" terms.
Your argument has morphed several times over the last few posts, so grasping your point is rather difficult when every post includes a new aspect.Originally Posted by Rodja
Exactly why I said "not to say it isn't most effective" because I practice it myselfOriginally Posted by Rodja
and know its efficacy. To deem it proper, where is your basis? Do you have studies supporting the safety?
Edit: There is a certain degree of power, some higher than others, associated with every exercise, but does that make a heavy barbell bent over row a power exercise because of the weight that can be moved and the degree of assisting isometric contractions, no. The way you are thinking every exercise can be considered a power exercise as long as there is a significant amount of force applied. That is only one side of the equation and power output rides heavily on velocity which has been my point across every single one of my statements.
Edit: power is a measure of energy transfer so a movement can't require power it can only yield a power output. A movement will require force to overcome inertia and power is a measure of the rate of that force production that overcomes said inertia.