Forearms don't seem to be growing as much?

[Thomasxavier]

Hello, I am looking for tips on growing the forearms to catch up with the rest.

I am on week 4.5 of test cyp, was 450mg a week, moved up to 600mg this week.

 

[ZiR RED]

Nearly all the muscles that flex your fingers (so you can grip things) have their muscle bellies in the forearm. Are you wearing straps for deadlifts, rows, pull ups, etc. If so, then there's your problem right there. If not, then get some fat gripz and start doing farmer's walks./

Br

 

[Thomasxavier]

Nearly all the muscles that flex your fingers (so you can grip things) have their muscle bellies in the forearm. Are you wearing straps for deadlifts, rows, pull ups, etc. If so, then there's your problem right there. If not, then get some fat gripz and start doing farmer's walks./

Br

Thanks friend. Can you recommend a farmer's walk workout that can be done at the gym?

 

[ZiR RED]

Grab some heavy dumbbells, if you have fatgripz then use those, if not you can always wrap a towel or something to increase bar diameter. Walk with it for 20-40 feet, turn, walk back. Do 4-6 of these at the end of your workout. You will also get some cardiovascular/conditioning out of the exercise as well.

 

[Thomasxavier]

Grab some heavy dumbbells, if you have fatgripz then use those, if not you can always wrap a towel or something to increase bar diameter. Walk with it for 20-40 feet, turn, walk back. Do 4-6 of these at the end of your workout. You will also get some cardiovascular/conditioning out of the exercise as well.

Thanks again, brother. You say this increases forearm size a lot? More than, say, reverse curls with your forearms?

 

[hossjob]

Reverse curls
hammer curls
wrist flexion/extension
Gripping

 

[ZiR RED]

Thanks again, brother. You say this increases forearm size a lot? More than, say, reverse curls with your forearms?

I wouldn't say more or less than reverse curls, but you will definitely note growth and improved strength with gripping. Most of the forearm muscle fibers are pennated at such an angle that they are not made to create a lot movement (as compared to the penation angles of say the hamstrings) but rather the create a lot of tension. Think about how the wrist flexors or extensors are involved during benching or curling, they are there to keep the wrists straight under a large load. The same goes for the finger flexors, you'll get maximum TUT with long gripping.

 

[Thomasxavier]

Thanks to you both.

Using a test cyp cycle, will you be able to increase wrist size in any way? I know it's difficult normally, and I was wondering if that's the case while on a cycle, too.

 

[ZiR RED]

Not likely, unless its due to severe water retention, in which case you'll probably get nerve impingement around the wrist...and, if there is serious water retention, it might also mean elevated blood pressure, which is of concern when on AAS.

The wrist is measurement is based predominantly on the distal radius and ulna (forearm bones) circumference.

 

[Thomasxavier]

Not likely, unless its due to severe water retention, in which case you'll probably get nerve impingement around the wrist...and, if there is serious water retention, it might also mean elevated blood pressure, which is of concern when on AAS.

The wrist is measurement is based predominantly on the distal radius and ulna (forearm bones) circumference.

Dang, how stupid is that gonna look then if my forearms get big and my wrists are small...?

 

[Rodja]

Dang, how stupid is that gonna look then if my forearms get big and my wrists are small...?

Isn't that the point of training for aesthetics: small bone structure with very developed muscle bellies?

 

[Thomasxavier]

Isn't that the point of training for aesthetics: small bone structure with very developed muscle bellies?

IDK about the average goal of the average user here but I don't want to turn into the hulk lol more about 185 lbs with 6% body fat

 

[Rodja]

IDK about the average goal of the average user here but I don't want to turn into the hulk lol more about 185 lbs with 6% body fat

The smaller wrist size will create the illusion of greater mass. The same thing applies to someone that is incredibly lean.

 

[Thomasxavier]

The smaller wrist size will create the illusion of greater mass. The same thing applies to someone that is incredibly lean.

So you consider it a good thing?

Realistically though, how much pressure could small wrists even take? Wouldn't that alone limit the amount of strength you could reach?

Because my wrists get pain more than anything else in my body. Sucks

 

[Rodja]

So you consider it a good thing?

Realistically though, how much pressure could small wrists even take? Wouldn't that alone limit the amount of strength you could reach?

Because my wrists get pain more than anything else in my body. Sucks

That's why you use wrist wraps.

 

[ZiR RED]

IDK about the average goal of the average user here but I don't want to turn into the hulk lol more about 185 lbs with 6% body fat

That can be achieved and maintained quite easily naturally.

 

[Thomasxavier]

That can be achieved and maintained quite easily naturally.

Well my natural test levels at 26 are like 220... I am about to follow the doctors advice and use massive amounts of human chorionic gonadotropin to get my levels naturally higher............. did a simple primabol cycle when I was younger, and was too naive back then to know what nolva/clomid were.... my PCT was over the counter stuff... fraid it may have messed me up... may have to use HCG

 

[ZiR RED]

Well my natural test levels at 26 are like 220... I am about to follow the doctors advice and use massive amounts of human chorionic gonadotropin to get my levels naturally higher.............

Is that really a MD's advise? I find that a bit hard to believe, given the rebound and desensitizing effects of large and frequent doses of HCG.

If your test levels are that low, and you think its problematic, why not go talk to a urologist who specializes in male reproduction and TRT?

If you are in the northeast: http://www.wernermd.com/index.php

Br

 

[Thomasxavier]

Is that really a MD's advise? I find that a bit hard to believe, given the rebound and desensitizing effects of large and frequent doses of HCG.

If your test levels are that low, and you think its problematic, why not go talk to a urologist who specializes in male reproduction and TRT?

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Br

TRT doesn't interest me, because I have no desire to be dependent on something for life.

Especially because I have had no symptoms of low testosterone. Sex drive, function, etc has always been normal. And I DID gain about 30 lbs of muscle naturally... but I'm referring to the one doctor, someone linked it here before about his studies where he injects 10,000 iu's for a month maybe? and it appeared to reverse the damage of AAS cycles...

I wish someone would link it. I know someone has it, the one dude that linked it was prominent here...


And I have been to a urologist lol that's how I got test cyp prescribed legally! He was plenty curious though when my blood work came back with a test level of 2200.

Speaking of which... my estrogen level was like 32, is that normal or should I use arimidex at a low dose for the remainder of the cycle

 

[ZiR RED]

TRT doesn't interest me, because I have no desire to be dependent on something for life.

Especially because I have had no symptoms of low testosterone. Sex drive, function, etc has always been normal. And I DID gain about 30 lbs of muscle naturally... but I'm referring to the one doctor, someone linked it here before about his studies where he injects 10,000 iu's for a month maybe? and it appeared to reverse the damage of AAS cycles...

I wish someone would link it. I know someone has it, the one dude that linked it was prominent here...


And I have been to a urologist lol that's how I got test cyp prescribed legally! He was plenty curious though when my blood work came back with a test level of 2200.

Speaking of which... my estrogen level was like 32, is that normal or should I use arimidex at a low dose for the remainder of the cycle

There is just so much wrong with this...

First, what do you think a prescription of test cyp is if not TRT? And what do you expect to happen to your own natural production if you continue to shut it down with supraphysiological amounts?

Second, blindly following the advise of an online Dr (is he even an MD??) who is not familiar with your own situation.....

Wow

Br

 

[Thomasxavier]

There is just so much wrong with this...

First, what do you think a prescription of test cyp is if not TRT? And what do you expect to happen to your own natural production if you continue to shut it down with supraphysiological amounts?

Second, blindly following the advise of an online Dr (is he even an MD??) who is not familiar with your own situation.....

Wow

Br

I don't mean to be disrespectful, but really, do you think me acquiring a prescription for test cyp for a cycle is worse than someone buying it illegally from a black market over the internet, that for all they know, is vegetable oil, or something else (even test) that is infused with AIDS? Or at the least, not properly sterile? If you have a PhD, I don't think you'd argue that logic much

As for whether I am following that doctor... that isn't literal. I've done extensive research in HCG and its benefits both for AAS users, those with infertility, etc. Haven't you?

I'll admit, my post graduate degree is in psychology, not health and fitness such as yours, but believe me, I am capable of research, logic, and the administration of reason and high intellect. Seems my earlier post gave you the wrong idea

 

[Rodja]

I don't mean to be disrespectful, but really, do you think me acquiring a prescription for test cyp for a cycle is worse than someone buying it illegally from a black market over the internet, that for all they know, is vegetable oil, or something else (even test) that is infused with AIDS? Or at the least, not properly sterile? If you have a PhD, I don't think you'd argue that logic much

As for whether I am following that doctor... that isn't literal. I've done extensive research in HCG and its benefits both for AAS users, those with infertility, etc. Haven't you?

I'll admit, my post graduate degree is in psychology, not health and fitness such as yours, but believe me, I am capable of research, logic, and the administration of reason and high intellect. Seems my earlier post gave you the wrong idea

I'll ignore the entire red herring in your first sentence as it has zero logic in it. You've said on several occasions that hCG is known for fat burning, which is completely false, so I highly doubt that you've done your research when it comes to the mechanisms regarding hCG and its uses for fertility and HPTA function. Scally is very, very well known and regarded in this scenario, but his protocol is not something that should be done without supervision and done haphazardly.

 

[Thomasxavier]

I'll ignore the entire red herring in your first sentence as it has zero logic in it. You've said on several occasions that hCG is known for fat burning, which is completely false, so I highly doubt that you've done your research when it comes to the mechanisms regarding hCG and its uses for fertility and HPTA function. Scally is very, very well known and regarded in this scenario, but his protocol is not something that should be done without supervision and done haphazardly.

Look back at all my posts, I have without EVER deviating, stated clearly that many body builders state that HCG is great for fat loss. A simple google search will show you that that is true. I have never myself stated that it DOES burn fat; my post history will prove that.

But Scally, that is right. That's him.

No worries though brother, I would never use high levels of HCG on my own in attempt to treat anything. If it really came down to it, I would contact him. I didn't mean to come off earlier like I was literally going to acquire HCG and self administer 10,000 ius

 

[Rodja]

Look back at all my posts, I have without EVER deviating, stated clearly that many body builders state that HCG is great for fat loss. A simple google search will show you that that is true. I have never myself stated that it DOES burn fat; my post history will prove that.

But Scally, that is right. That's him.

No worries though brother, I would never use high levels of HCG on my own in attempt to treat anything. If it really came down to it, I would contact him. I didn't mean to come off earlier like I was literally going to acquire HCG and self administer 10,000 ius

Again, that is completely false. hCG was never purported to be a direct fat loss agent by BB'ers despite your insistence on this topic. hCG is used for fertility, HPTA recovery, and testicular size, not fat loss. I've never seen hCG being used in a pre-contest stack; HGH, yes, but not hCG.

 

[Thomasxavier]

Again, that is completely false. hCG was never purported to be a direct fat loss agent by BB'ers despite your insistence on this topic. hCG is used for fertility, HPTA recovery, and testicular size, not fat loss. I've never seen hCG being used in a pre-contest stack; HGH, yes, but not hCG.

I may be mixing up my words here. When I say body builders, I mean everyday people at your or anyone else's gym. Not a professional competitor, necessarily. I cannot imagine that you would claim that many body builders (Perhaps I should have labeled them weight lifters, simply), have not made this claim. If nothing else, then at a minimum, many people could believe this simply due to the fact hcg can raise testosterone, and testosterone burns fat. The misconception that arises from that is obvious my brother. It was my mistake for trusting multiple weight lifters opinions without scientific fact, but I am going to trust your PhD is from a semi-good school at least, and take your word over theirs at this point.

 

[Rodja]

I may be mixing up my words here. When I say body builders, I mean everyday people at your or anyone else's gym. Not a professional competitor, necessarily. I cannot imagine that you would claim that many body builders (Perhaps I should have labeled them weight lifters, simply), have not made this claim. If nothing else, then at a minimum, many people could believe this simply due to the fact hcg can raise testosterone, and testosterone burns fat. The correlation there is obvious my brother..

I guess you skipped over the word direct and the only time I've ever heard anyone talk about hCG for fat loss is using the scam that is the hCG "diet" where you eat 500 calories per day. Do yourself a favor and look at what the peer-reviewed research has to say on the topic.

 

[Thomasxavier]

I guess you skipped over the word direct and the only time I've ever heard anyone talk about hCG for fat loss is using the scam that is the hCG "diet" where you eat 500 calories per day. Do yourself a favor and look at what the peer-reviewed research has to say on the topic.

Indeed, I have only become interested in HCG immensely the past two months, and my preliminary interest grew from opinions by weight lifters. It is my error for not doing the peer-reviewed research you just spoke of, as I know that is common protocol at this level, and I would like to believe that if/when I became much more serious about actually using HCG, I would have read far more factual information. I appreciate you bringing this to my attention, as I try to make it a point to absorb and utilize constructive criticism, well, constructively....

But perhaps at this point you can answer this question, brother. My blood test came back ~2200 test, and 32 estrogen. Is this level of estrogen appropriate for AI use? If so, what dose? .25 every three days, even?

 

[Rodja]

Indeed, I have only become interested in HCG immensely the past two months, and my preliminary interest grew from opinions by weight lifters. It is my error for not doing the peer-reviewed research you just spoke of, as I know that is common protocol at this level, and I would like to believe that if/when I became much more serious about actually using HCG, I would have read far more factual information. I appreciate you bringing this to my attention, as I try to make it a point to absorb and utilize constructive criticism, well, constructively....

But perhaps at this point you can answer this question, brother. My blood test came back ~2200 test, and 32 estrogen. Is this level of estrogen appropriate for AI use? If so, what dose? .25 every three days, even?

Was it within range?

 

[Thomasxavier]

Was it within range?

Top of the range for the estrogen is 30... but I also took this blood test only 1.5 weeks into the cycle... unfortunately due to switching health insurance, I will not be acquiring my new coverage til December 27, so I cannot get more blood work done in the meantime.. the reason I mention this is because the estrogen, logically could have risen due to constant high testosterone levels.

But even if it simply remained at 32, is that not high enough?

 

[Rodja]

Top of the range for the estrogen is 30... but I also took this blood test only 1.5 weeks into the cycle... unfortunately due to switching health insurance, I will not be acquiring my new coverage til December 27, so I cannot get more blood work done in the meantime.. the reason I mention this is because the estrogen, logically could have risen due to constant high testosterone levels.

But even if it simply remained at 32, is that not high enough?

It's a moot point as it was weeks ago and isn't accurate.

 

[ZiR RED]

I don't mean to be disrespectful, but really, do you think me acquiring a prescription for test cyp for a cycle is worse than someone buying it illegally from a black market over the internet, that for all they know, is vegetable oil, or something else (even test) that is infused with AIDS? Or at the least, not properly sterile? If you have a PhD, I don't think you'd argue that logic much

As for whether I am following that doctor... that isn't literal. I've done extensive research in HCG and its benefits both for AAS users, those with infertility, etc. Haven't you?

I'll admit, my post graduate degree is in psychology, not health and fitness such as yours, but believe me, Seems my earlier post gave you the wrong idea

First of all, you should know that I speak from both experience (granted, it was 8+ years ago, and took me about 6+ years for my levels to recover fully) and education.

My argument is not where you attained it from. My point is that you stated

TRT doesn't interest me, because I have no desire to be dependent on something for life.

Which is a fine point, except what do you think TRT is [rhetorical]? It is the administration of exogenous testosterone...be it for a period of months or years.

What makes even less sense, is you discuss wanting to to elevate your natural testosterone production, or bring it back within the established normal range; however, your actions and methods are counter to your stated goals. How is shutting down your HPTA going to help restore your natural production?

Next, if you have a graduate degree then you should very well know the danger in doing strictly anecdotal research, how n=1 means very little, and especially how bro-intelligence is a damn oxy-moron.

Look back at all my posts, I have without EVER deviating, stated clearly that many body builders state that HCG is great for fat loss. A simple google search will show you that that is true. I have never myself stated that it DOES burn fat; my post history will prove that.

Does your google search contain any information from medical journals?

If nothing else, then at a minimum, many people could believe this simply due to the fact hcg can raise testosterone, and testosterone burns fat. The misconception that arises from that is obvious my brother. It was my mistake for trusting multiple weight lifters opinions without scientific fact

Testosterone does not burn fat. In fact, the influence of testosterone on lipolysis. In fact, in human adipocytes (not MICE), testosterone actually appears to inhibit lipolysis to a degree.
http://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/s00125-003-1324-0?LI=true

The second bolded sentence contradicts your statement:

I am capable of research, logic, and the administration of reason and high intellect.

I have no doubt you are, but I would highly suggest you employ these capabilities before further experimentation.

Br

 

[Thomasxavier]

Your reply was valid and I accept your points and will hold myself to a higher standard in the future. Thank you

The part where you posted:

First of all, you should know that I speak from both experience (granted, it was 8+ years ago, and took me about 6+ years for my levels to recover fully) and education.


What do you speak of? Can you tell me the story behind this exactly?

 

[EBroser]

Hello, I am looking for tips on growing the forearms to catch up with the rest.

I am on week 4.5 of test cyp, was 450mg a week, moved up to 600mg this week.

Just put up this article - maybe it can help!

anabolicminds.com/forum/training-forum/219345-pnis-coach-broser.html

 

[hossjob]

LISTEN to ZiR RED Please!

 

[ZiR RED]

Your reply was valid and I accept your points and will hold myself to a higher standard in the future. Thank you

The part where you posted:

First of all, you should know that I speak from both experience (granted, it was 8+ years ago, and took me about 6+ years for my levels to recover fully) and education.


What do you speak of? Can you tell me the story behind this exactly?

http://www.informz.net/acsm/data/images/pads_enewsletter_issue3_dec-2011.pdf

You can guess who the Anon author was. We can talk via PM/email if you'd like to know more.

 

[Thomasxavier]

Very interesting article. Will toss you a PM