A Wide Back? What to do

[EatMoar]

Hi guys so in about a week or two im going to be switching up my workout for all my body parts and the one I want to focus on hardcore is my back. I want to get a nice wide and defined back. IVe heard the general rule of thumb is to go wide grip for wide back and close grip for back mass but it seems iffy.

Anyway heres what im currently doing:
Pendally Rows (grip is medum legnth , shoulder width about )
Wide grip pull up
close grip lat pull down
close grip low row

Heres what im thinking about doing .... (advice needed here please )

Pendally rows (love these cant get rid of em! )
Wide grip pull up
Wide grip lat pull down (isnt the pull up and the push down esentially the same thing?)
Medium/wide grip low row
...adding another exercise in possibly would be : close grip lat pull down (this may be to much though)

Let me know whats good/whats bad/ whats ehh . Thanks guys!

 

[carpee]

if you're sticking with bb'ing type volume, I would drop the wide grip pull-up and wide grip pulldown combo. keep the pulldowns wide grip but go with a moderate grip pull-up and use chains or a weighted belt.

weighted chins too. heavy compound > super wide grip

don't neglect deadlifts or barbell rows either.

 

[EatMoar]

if you're sticking with bb'ing type volume, I would drop the wide grip pull-up and wide grip pulldown combo. keep the pulldowns wide grip but go with a moderate grip pull-up and use chains or a weighted belt.

weighted chins too. heavy compound > super wide grip

don't neglect deadlifts or barbell rows either.

Pendally rows are just a variation of barbell rows, they work better for me. I used to BB row but wasnt getting as good of results from it. Ah of course lol yeah I deadlift on my back days, every other week though because i find when I deadlift my lower back needs a longer time to heal.

Why drop wide grip pull ups? Arent they important ?

 

[Rodja]

Drop Pendlay's for DB rows. Pendlay's aren't designed for hypertrophy since the TUT is not there. As far as the pullups go, switch each week from wide grip to neutral grip for variation and also add in snatch grip deadlifts.

 

[Young Gotti]

Wide grip lat pulldown:
University of Miami (Coral Gables) researchers had 10 experienced lifters perform wide-grip pulldowns to the front, pulldowns with reverse and neutral grips, and wide-grip pulldowns behind the neck while measuring muscle activity with electromyography. Wide-grip pulldowns to the front were found to involve the most lat muscle fibers, with the reverse-grip version coming in a close second.

 

[Sean1332]

see if your gym has a wide neutral grip pull down bar, mine has one and it's pretty nice..along with neutral grip pull-ups

 

[Rodja]

Pullups>>>>>pulldowns

 

[kdeome]

^ agreed.

 

[bdcc]

Pullups>>>>>pulldowns

Agreed. Pull ups to pull downs are like squats to leg extensions.

 

[EatMoar]

Alright then DBs for Pendally rows. I do feel a lot more TUT with DB one arm rows than pendally. Why not just do pull ups and pull downs?!

 

[hvactech]

Agreed. Pull ups to pull downs are like squats to leg extensions.

I thought leg extensions were the leg mass builder.

 

[Rodja]

Alright then DBs for Pendally rows. I do feel a lot more TUT with DB one arm rows than pendally. Why not just do pull ups and pull downs?!

Pulldowns are for people that are intimidated to do or suck at pulldowns. Also, they do stress the internal rotators, which are usually overworked into relation to external rotators. It's much better to fill in the volume with additional rows to help create balance within the internal and external rotators.

I thought leg extensions were the leg mass builder.

Leg extensions are not a mass builder. Have you seen how "legs" on people that don't squat but still do leg ex?

 

[EatMoar]

Alright thanks for the help guys this is what I'm gonna run with :

Db rows
Wide grip pull up
Close grip lat pull down
Medium grip low row (with a bar)
And obviously dead lifts.

I noticed that snatch deads are like regular dead lifts minus the wider grip and leg placement. I'd rather do a dead lift with a wide grip, wider legs and not so close to the knees.

 

[Rodja]

Alright thanks for the help guys this is what I'm gonna run with b rowsWide grip pull upClose grip lat pull downMedium grip low row (with a bar) And obviously dead lifts.I noticed that snatch deads are like regular dead lifts minus the wider grip and leg placement. I'd rather do a dead lift with a wide grip, wider legs and not so close to the knees.

I specifically said snatch-grip because they place the emphasis on the upper back. You can't hold nearly as much with the snatch-grip compared a sumo or conventional deadlift. The leg placement is virtually identical to a conventional deadlift except you have to bend more at the knee since you have to bend down further due to the wider grip.

 

[hvactech]

Pulldowns are for people that are intimidated to do or suck at pulldowns. Also, they do stress the internal rotators, which are usually overworked into relation to external rotators. It's much better to fill in the volume with additional rows to help create balance within the internal and external rotators.

Leg extensions are not a mass builder. Have you seen how "legs" on people that don't squat but still do leg ex?

Yeah it was a joke.

 

[EatMoar]

I specifically said snatch-grip because they place the emphasis on the upper back. You can't hold nearly as much with the snatch-grip compared a sumo or conventional deadlift. The leg placement is virtually identical to a conventional deadlift except you have to bend more at the knee since you have to bend down further due to the wider grip.

ive been trying to find a good video with instruction on how to do the snatch grip deadlift, any tips or can you link a good video? Im a perfectionist when it comes to form, i dont want to learn the wrong form . And lol @ the leg extension comment haha.

 

[Rodja]

ive been trying to find a good video with instruction on how to do the snatch grip deadlift, any tips or can you link a good video? Im a perfectionist when it comes to form, i dont want to learn the wrong form . And lol @ the leg extension comment haha.

It's the same setup as a conventional deadlift, but with a lower stance to accomodate for the wider grip. The bar will also be slightly further away from your shins at the bottom as well.

 

[Spaniard]

I agree with the thought in here, pull ups for the win no doubt. My back days consist of dead lifts, weighted pull ups, kroc rows and heavy db rows...

Another thing that would probably suit you better still than a pull down but less effective than a pull up IMO are rack chins. I've done them here and there. The recruitment seems to be to be more focused than a pull down.

Either way, pull ups ftw no doubt in my mind.

- Valdez

 

[Frank Reynolds]

I actually like rack chins more than pull-ups when doing them regularly. Much easier on my shoulders, easier to progress on, feel them more where I should. I attribute a lot of back width to them.

I do see a lot of people turn rack chins into more of an inverted row which I feel is a different movement entirely.

They translate well into pull ups as well imo.

 

[EatMoar]

It's the same setup as a conventional deadlift, but with a lower stance to accomodate for the wider grip. The bar will also be slightly further away from your shins at the bottom as well.

what do you mean by lower stance? Keep my grip wide, like keep my hands far apart? how far though? Like to each end of the bar? Why does the wide grip on the deadlift work your upper back more? So many questions lol, i love this stuff.

 

[Montego1]

It all depends on YOU. If u weigh 160lbs and can do twenty pullups do heavy pulldowns instead. Wide grip for width, Close grip/reverse grip for lower lats and middle back thickness.

Heavy tbar rows. Heavy dumbell rows. Heavy reverse grip bb rows. I've always gone with the thought that ur back grows from the middle outwards so I hit a lot of close grip at the start of my session then finish off with wider grip action.

 

[Spaniard]

It all depends on YOU. If u weigh 160lbs and can do twenty pullups do heavy pulldowns instead. Wide grip for width, Close grip/reverse grip for lower lats and middle back thickness.

Heavy tbar rows. Heavy dumbell rows. Heavy reverse grip bb rows. I've always gone with the thought that ur back grows from the middle outwards so I hit a lot of close grip at the start of my session then finish off with wider grip action.

Agree to disagree on that one... I weigh 180 for extra weight use a dip belt. I throw a plate on and I'm at 225, simple.

- Valdez

 

[Spaniard]

I actually like rack chins more than pull-ups when doing them regularly. Much easier on my shoulders, easier to progress on, feel them more where I should. I attribute a lot of back width to them.

I do see a lot of people turn rack chins into more of an inverted row which I feel is a different movement entirely.

They translate well into pull ups as well imo.

Rack chins are just such a pain in the ass when you lift solo... I know, I know you and your partner train together but otherwise dude its a pain in the tits

- Valdez

 

[Frank Reynolds]

Rack chins are just such a pain in the ass when you lift solo... I know, I know you and your partner train together but otherwise dude its a pain in the tits

- Valdez

Leave my life partner out of this..lol

But seriously I actually always trained alone until this past year, and never found them difficult. Strap my left hand in, throw a db on my lap, strap the right in, feet up on the bench.. Pretty easy.. Even when RP'ng them I would just kick my feet down, count to xx, and get back at it.
Just like this. Except easier as he has to use 2DB's..
[video=youtube;ObFpbFW0dpQ]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ObFpbFW0dpQ[/video]

 

[Rodja]

what do you mean by lower stance? Keep my grip wide, like keep my hands far apart? how far though? Like to each end of the bar? Why does the wide grip on the deadlift work your upper back more? So many questions lol, i love this stuff.

You will have to squat down lower to get to the bar due to the wider grip. I put my index finger on the outer rings and it favors the upper back because of the position of the torso in relation to the bar.

 

[retrofitted]

Snatch grip high pulls might be a good one to throw in as well.

 

[EatMoar]

It all depends on YOU. If u weigh 160lbs and can do twenty pullups do heavy pulldowns instead. Wide grip for width, Close grip/reverse grip for lower lats and middle back thickness.

Heavy tbar rows. Heavy dumbell rows. Heavy reverse grip bb rows. I've always gone with the thought that ur back grows from the middle outwards so I hit a lot of close grip at the start of my session then finish off with wider grip action.

If your doing T bar why both doing DB row , its the same movement .

 

[Rodja]

If your doing T bar why both doing DB row , its the same movement .

Similar, but not the same. T-bar is within a fixed place because of the grip (similarly to BB rows), but a DB does not have this same restriction.

 

[EatMoar]

Similar, but not the same. T-bar is within a fixed place because of the grip (similarly to BB rows), but a DB does not have this same restriction.

i love learning

 

[Montego1]

I also get a much better stretch with DB's and its not as hard on the lower back IMO

 

[EatMoar]

I also get a much better stretch with DB's and its not as hard on the lower back IMO

Agreed, BB rows always murder my lower back. Then when I try to dead lift ... i die

 

[Rodja]

Agreed, BB rows always murder my lower back. Then when I try to dead lift ... i die

Another reason to sub in snatch-grip. You won't be able to pull nearly as much since the leverage is far from favorable, but it targets the upper back better compared to sumo or conventional deadlifts.

 

[DrDeca]

for dat V,

pullups
partial deadlifts,
WG BB row
WG pulldown
single arm db row
pullups to finish....squeek whatever else in there that u want but that workout plus other ones gave me a pretty dece V

 

[EBroser]

For pure V-taper do not forget to include one of these every workout for back:

-DB PULLOVER
-MACHINE PULLOVER
-CABLE PULLOVER
-STIFF ARM PULLDOWN

These can be used to pre-exhaust at the beginning of a workout or finish the upper lats/teres at the end without involving the tired biceps. They also work great in a superset - pre-exhaust or post-activation.

 

[EatMoar]

I actually did DB rows and snatch grip dead lifts today and my lats and upper back feel destroyed. I love it . And deca, Im not a fan of doing BB rows anymore. It kills my lower back. But i pretty much do exactly what you outlined, minus partial dead lifts (i do full dead lifts) and I do low rows, to hit the middle/lower back to add some mass there.

 

[kbayne]

For pure V-taper do not forget to include one of these every workout for back:

-DB PULLOVER
-MACHINE PULLOVER
-CABLE PULLOVER
-STIFF ARM PULLDOWN

These can be used to pre-exhaust at the beginning of a workout or finish the upper lats/teres at the end without involving the tired biceps. They also work great in a superset - pre-exhaust or post-activation.

I love doing stiff-arm pulldown and squeezing at the bottom. Definitely feel it in the back. Great exercise. I do wish my gym had a machine pullover though, but I still for DB pullovers to replace it.

 

[EatMoar]

I love doing stiff-arm pulldown and squeezing at the bottom. Definitely feel it in the back. Great exercise. I do wish my gym had a machine pullover though, but I still for DB pullovers to replace it.

Hmm things to think about for my bext back day. How do you like pull overs? Work the lats well?

 

[kbayne]

Hmm things to think about for my bext back day. How do you like pull overs? Work the lats well?

I like stiff arm pulldowns the most. I can feel it working the best. And ya I definitely feel it in the middle/lower lats. Make sure to squeeze at the bottom. I see many people do them and throw their body into and they don't get the full benefit.

 

[DrDeca]

stiff arm pulldowns are great gunna include that in my next back workout

 

[EatMoar]

Okie sounds good to me. Yah I see people tossing around weight all the time. Sounds like a bad way to get hurt. Its all about the squeeze and slow movement . Pull downs it is!

 

[kbayne]

Okie sounds good to me. Yah I see people tossing around weight all the time. Sounds like a bad way to get hurt. Its all about the squeeze and slow movement . Pull downs it is!

Exactly. Let us know how it works out for ya.

 

[EBroser]

I like stiff arm pulldowns the most. I can feel it working the best. And ya I definitely feel it in the middle/lower lats. Make sure to squeeze at the bottom. I see many people do them and throw their body into and they don't get the full benefit.

Definitely one of my favorite exercises for back and it is has helped me truly widen my V-taper.

 

[kbayne]

Definitely one of my favorite exercises for back and it is has helped me truly widen my V-taper.

Same here with being one of favs for back. You really don't see many people do pullovers or stiff arm pulldowns, not at my gym at least.

 

[kbayne]

Also EBroser, do you go shoulder width apart or wider? I like to go anywhere from shoulder width to a bit wider.

 

[EBroser]

Also EBroser, do you go shoulder width apart or wider? I like to go anywhere from shoulder width to a bit wider.

Like with almost every movement I do I am constantly varying grips, so on some days I will go really close and then anywhere from there to shoulder width (usually not any wider).

 

[usealittle]

The workout that build my back was...

Pullups
3x10-12 (easy, for warm up)
Bent row (heavy)
3x6-10 315-455
Seated row
2x6-10 300-325
Reverse grip pull downs
2x12-15 220-240

Did this 1x wk and I got wide and thick quick...

 

[EatMoar]

How come you guys don't like seated low rows ?

 

[kbayne]

How come you guys don't like seated low rows ?

I like seated rows. I usually use the V-Bar but throw in a long bar and go wide grip sometimes. It hits the middle of back the most for me if done correctly. I feel like too many people think back exercises do the same thing, but every exercise hits the back in a different beneficial way.

 

[usealittle]

I do em. Change from close to wide from time to time.

 

[DrDeca]

The workout that build my back was...

Pullups
3x10-12 (easy, for warm up)
Bent row (heavy)
3x6-10 315-455
Seated row
2x6-10 300-325
Reverse grip pull downs
2x12-15 220-240

Did this 1x wk and I got wide and thick quick...



View attachment 70932

No deadlift?