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    Needing advice


    I'm a very experienced lifter been doing it for years and making great gains. Here lately I have hit a stump in my training. I'm currently in a bulking program taking it 4000 to 4200 calories a day. My workouts are intense and spot on, I train Monday Tuesday Thursday Friday- Wednesday, Saturday and Sunday are my cardio days, I do things like jog or box on a heavy bag. Like I Said I'm bulkin right now at 4200 calories a day, but recently I've been LOSING weight??? Wtf?? I eat very clean every 2-3 hours with only one cheat meal a week usually on Saturday night. Any advice or comments? Thanks

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    Quote Originally Posted by Rush8780
    I'm a very experienced lifter been doing it for years and making great gains. Here lately I have hit a stump in my training. I'm currently in a bulking program taking it 4000 to 4200 calories a day. My workouts are intense and spot on, I train Monday Tuesday Thursday Friday- Wednesday, Saturday and Sunday are my cardio days, I do things like jog or box on a heavy bag. Like I Said I'm bulkin right now at 4200 calories a day, but recently I've been LOSING weight??? Wtf?? I eat very clean every 2-3 hours with only one cheat meal a week usually on Saturday night. Any advice or comments? Thanks
    If you're losing weight then you need to eat even more than you have been. Try bumping to 4500 and see how that goes.
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    Yeah bro I thought about that, just wanna gain a minimum body fat. Right now I'm about 220 bout 11% body fat
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    1) Take out the cardio. All of it.

    2) Eat more... I'm 230 pushing 6-7.5k cal. a day

    You're going to gain a little body fat on a bulk... There's a time and place for cardio and its not ever during a bulk if you want to maximize gains in the shortest time possible.
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    So no cardio at all? Ramp up calories?
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rush8780
    So no cardio at all? Ramp up calories?
    You can still do cardio but you have to compensate by eating more.
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    bulking on 4,000? i think thats your problem. eat more. a lot more. add in a lot of fat to your diet. that is an easy way to get in lots of calories in a very small source.
    you can call me "ozzie" for short.
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    Don't cut cardio, just eat more. As already stated. You will gain mass when eating in excess, so if you losing weight; your not in excess. Simple. I bulk on 5-6k calories because of the intense nature of my Lifting, HIIT days + daily mimimal exertion cardio.
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    Anything under 5000 no matter what your weight is a cut and cardio is counter productive to mass.

    Cutting out aerobic cardio is like cutting out the middle man when it comes to mass. If you run you're burning valuable calories that could be attributed to weight gain. Now if you're recomping then that's a different story. Just seems like taking two steps forward and one step back to me when you could be taking three forward.
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    Quote Originally Posted by PROness
    Anything under 5000 no matter what your weight is a cut and cardio is counter productive to mass.

    Cutting out aerobic cardio is like cutting out the middle man when it comes to mass. If you run you're burning valuable calories that could be attributed to weight gain. Now if you're recomping then that's a different story. Just seems like taking two steps forward and one step back to me when you could be taking three forward.
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    Quote Originally Posted by PROness
    Anything under 5000 no matter what your weight is a cut and cardio is counter productive to mass.

    Cutting out aerobic cardio is like cutting out the middle man when it comes to mass. If you run you're burning valuable calories that could be attributed to weight gain. Now if you're recomping then that's a different story. Just seems like taking two steps forward and one step back to me when you could be taking three forward.
    That is incredibly biased. Very little of that is worth anything IME. Why would I, at ~165, need 5000 Cal's unless I wanted to look like anything but a fat guy?

    Also on the point of cardio during bulking you should do a little more research.

    Quote Originally Posted by mr.cooper69

    Cardio for caloric burn is indeed a waste on a bulk. Cardio for muscular endurance/type II fiber recruitment (HIIT) or simply cardio to boost cardiovascular function with intent of translating into improved breathing while weightlifting (i.e. squats, lunges, deadlifts) can be beneficial. Again, re-read my posts on the previous page. Supplements that affect the thyroid or induce caloric burn are a waste on a bulk, but those that act through anti-obesogenic mechanisms (i.e. raspberry ketones, TTA, 7-keto) may be beneficial.

    In fact, the aforementioned compounds are what truly partition calories to muscle vs adipose. GDAs are generally non-discriminatory and are simply worthwhile as overall health aids.

    I know you said "most" fat burners, and this post isn't intended to be critical, so don't take it that way . Just more info because I'm stimmed up and ambitious today
    Quote Originally Posted by ZiR RED

    Are you training for an endurance event or for physique purposes [rhetorical]?

    Sprinting will do a number of things for you, besides improving cardiovascular conditioning burning a few extra calories.
    1. Will increase anaerobic enzymes. Hence, you'll be better able to utilize CHO for high intensity work.
    2. Increase glycogen synthase activity and density. Hence, more of the CHO you consume will be stored as glycogen.
    3. Increase beta-oxidation enzymes. Hence, you will be more efficient at using fat for fuel.
    4. Train the type II fibers of the lower body, as well as place more stress upon the global core (abs, obliques, etc.).

    1-3 will improve nutrient partitioning. In other words, more of what you eat will go towards muscle vs. fat. All this from 2-3 sessions of 6-10 sprints per session.

    Br
    Cardio is not just for caloric expenditure.
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    Reds post was legit!
    HIIT cardio has lots of benefits.
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    +10 to that. HIIT on a bulk should be a must. LISS should only be pursued (imo) if you desire for aerobic endurance capacity. I find LISS enjoyable, so I do it knowing full well it will not attribute to my goals on a bulk.
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    Well I'll ramp up my calories up higher to atleast 5000. For my cardio I do heavy bag workouts which is a great form of HIIT training. I just don't wanna get to high with the calories and gain fat, more like a high calorie clean bulk
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    There's so many cardio nazis in here I thought I was a planet fitness for a second... Now where are those smith machines and 60lb dum bells at...
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    Quote Originally Posted by PROness
    There's so many cardio nazis in here I thought I was a planet fitness for a second... Now where are those smith machines and 60lb dum bells at...
    You are @ Planet fitness then.
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    ORLY?
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    Double.
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    Quote Originally Posted by PROness
    There's so many cardio nazis in here I thought I was a planet fitness for a second... Now where are those smith machines and 60lb dum bells at...
    You are ignorant. Plain and simple. You give extremely outdated and incorrect information and then when you are confronted with reputable information you shun it. There is no reason to abstain from cardio during a bulk and for most there is no reason to eat 5000+ a day unless you intend to gain more fat than muscle.
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    Quote Originally Posted by jimbuick

    You are ignorant. Plain and simple. You give extremely outdated and incorrect information and then when you are confronted with reputable information you shun it. There is no reason to abstain from cardio during a bulk and for most there is no reason to eat 5000+ a day unless you intend to gain more fat than muscle.
    Common sense and so ****ing true
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    I'm in to strength training sweetheart. I do what works and at 250lbs I eat for a living. Once you get into 250 club with single digit body fat, get at me...
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    Aw phuck...
    Who's right here? ^
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    At 165 lbs there jimmy boy I don't think you're qualified to tell anyone how to gain weight lol
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    Quote Originally Posted by PROness
    I'm in to strength training sweetheart. I do what works and at 250lbs I eat for a living. Once you get into 250 club with single digit body fat, get at me...
    Lop that's cute that you think those points are any less valid because you claim to be 250 with <10%. (Doubtful). Also even if you were the person you are trying to advise does not weigh 250 and wouldn't need as much food as you, if you were indeed.

    I also think it's cute that you try to know my situation. How often do you run distance, I would guess never, because I do of every morning as a part of the 82 ABN. I wouldn't be able to do my job if I weghed 250. So once again you prove how truly ignorant you are.
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    Hey jimbuick... Once you look like this get at me but until then keep your mouth ****
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    Quote Originally Posted by PROness
    Hey jimbuick... Once you look like this get at me but until then keep your mouth ****
    That's what you call single digit bf?
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    This is pyrobatt. A well respected member of this forum.who.currently sits at approximately 12%



    Name:  ForumRunner_20121101_220005.jpg
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    That's straight from his log. And you think you're at sub 10. Keep dreaming.
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    Quote Originally Posted by AaronJP1


    Aw phuck...
    Who's right here? ^
    Lol I'm going with ZiR Red and Mr.Cooper being right. :justsayin:
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    Yes sir at 250lbs. That's a ****ty angle here. One month into my cut. Should have took more pics but I got complacent. :/
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    Quote Originally Posted by PROness
    Yes sir at 250lbs. That's a ****ty angle here. One month into my cut. Should have took more pics but I got complacent. :/
    Do you honestly believe you have less fat than Pyro? Good try but no. Him at 220 with 12% gives ~26lbs of fat and you claiming to be 250 at 9 (giving you as close to ten as possible) with only 22lbs. You have no grasp of what sub 10% looks like. You are clearly nothing more than a troll, when confronted with real information from people much more qualified than yourself you attempt to use your size as a tool to make people believe your incorrect opinions. OP, myself, and most people on these boards do not need 5000+ a day unless they want to look more like this:


    Name:  3017000-886876-scared-and-sexy-extreme-fat-guy-isolated-on-white.jpg
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    Than this:


    Name:  ForumRunner_20121101_222315.png
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    And I assume that most here want the latter. Also I feel I must point out that the two quotes I provided are from people much more experienced than I, and much more knowledgeable than both of us. I'll cut you some slack cuz you're new here and don't know who knows what, but spend a little time learning so you can start giving informed advice instead of musclemags from the 80's.

    One day you'll learn that not everyone has the same goals when it comes to exercise.
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    PROness, you are a big boy but I think you need to reassess your BF% slightly and like the well educated members who were quoted on here stated...cardio always has a place in your fitness goals. I myself am sitting at about 225 right now and nowhere near single digits and my pic looks a bit better than yours...and I'm 53.
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    Quote Originally Posted by AZMIDLYF
    PROness, you are a big boy but I think you need to reassess your BF% slightly and like the well educated members who were quoted on here stated...cardio always has a place in your fitness goals. I myself am sitting at about 225 right now and nowhere near single digits and my pic looks a bit better than yours...and I'm 53.


    I will give ProNess credit though, being 200 & having a glimmer of abs... It ain't all bad...
    ProNess is doing something right.
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    Quote Originally Posted by AaronJP1



    I will give ProNess credit though, being 200 & having a glimmer of abs... It ain't all bad...
    ProNess is doing something right.
    I agree, but just because he needs that amount does not mean he should advise others who weigh less to eat that much.

    And the cardio comments were just plain ridiculous, cardio is so much more than just a caloric expenditure and I can't personally fathom why someone who was presented with so much information showing the positives of cardio while bulking would still fight so adamantly against it.
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    Quote Originally Posted by jimbuick

    I agree, but just because he needs that amount does not mean he should advise others who weigh less to eat that much.

    And the cardio comments were just plain ridiculous, cardio is so much more than just a caloric expenditure and I can't personally fathom why someone who was presented with so much information showing the positives of cardio while bulking would still fight so adamantly against it.
    I'm so down for cardio.
    When testing to be a policeman, I wish I was doing cardio since I was 15 haha!
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    Quote Originally Posted by AaronJP1

    I'm so down for cardio.
    When testing to be a policeman, I was I was doing cardio since I was 15 haha!
    I despise LISS but its mandatory for my particular career choice. HIIT on the other hand is a dear friend, especially with the Prowler.
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    LOL. This thread is gold.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rush8780 View Post
    Well I'll ramp up my calories up higher to atleast 5000. For my cardio I do heavy bag workouts which is a great form of HIIT training. I just don't wanna get to high with the calories and gain fat, more like a high calorie clean bulk
    nothing wrong with some conditioning work to get the heart in better shape. but dont rely on cardio to prevent fat. diet is what prevents fat. if you want to gain mostly lean mass look into things like intermittent fasting or carb backloading. several of my training partners are on those programs. they range in weight from 195lbs at 5'5" to 280 at 6"2". they are all getting leaner and getting stronger with either diet.
    you can call me "ozzie" for short.
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    Quote Originally Posted by asooneyeonig View Post
    nothing wrong with some conditioning work to get the heart in better shape. but dont rely on cardio to prevent fat. diet is what prevents fat. if you want to gain mostly lean mass look into things like intermittent fasting or carb backloading. several of my training partners are on those programs. they range in weight from 195lbs at 5'5" to 280 at 6"2". they are all getting leaner and getting stronger with either diet.
    Any tips on where to find info on this protocol?
    Always open light. It’s not what you open with, it’s what you finish with. Louie Simmons
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    Quote Originally Posted by AZMIDLYF View Post
    Any tips on where to find info on this protocol?
    buy the book.
    http://www.carbbackloading.com/

    there are only short articles that elude to what to do online. there is a lot in the book that you will not find online. an this is not a short term diet, it is a life long nutritional plan so it is worth that small amount to be leaner and stronger for the rest of your life.
    you can call me "ozzie" for short.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rush8780 View Post
    I'm a very experienced lifter been doing it for years and making great gains. Here lately I have hit a stump in my training. I'm currently in a bulking program taking it 4000 to 4200 calories a day. My workouts are intense and spot on, I train Monday Tuesday Thursday Friday- Wednesday, Saturday and Sunday are my cardio days, I do things like jog or box on a heavy bag. Like I Said I'm bulkin right now at 4200 calories a day, but recently I've been LOSING weight??? Wtf?? I eat very clean every 2-3 hours with only one cheat meal a week usually on Saturday night. Any advice or comments? Thanks
    How are you judging this weight loss? Has it been consistent on a week to week basis (i.e: about 1-2 pounds lost per week totalling 5-8 pounds down in a month or two), or has it just been an occurrence recently.

    If the answer is recently, your weight will fluctuate based on several factors.

    If its been consistent then you are either not eating enough or having digestive/absorptive issues.

    If its been consistent, and your foods have not changed (i.e.: are you trying to consume a gallon of milk per day out of nowhere), then increase food intake and reduce the DURATION of your cardio. You can maintain or even increase intensity, but reduce the duration. This will maintain cardiovascular/anaerobic conditioning while reducing overall caloric expenditure, and more importantly, reducing activation and expression of energy-conserving enzymes and genes (such as AMPK).

    Br
  

  
 

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