Serious DOMS (no training changes; so what's the cause?)

  1. Diamond Member
    MidwestBeast's Avatar
    Stats
    6'1"  228 lbs.
    Join Date
    May 2010
    Age
    29
    Posts
    10,043
    Rep Power
    3092067
    Level
    79
    Lv. Percent
    85.87%
    Achievements Posting ProPosting AuthorityActivity AuthorityActivity ProActivity Veteran

    Serious DOMS (no training changes; so what's the cause?)


    Title says it all. For the last few months, I've been getting really, really bad DOMS. I've had this happen in the past if say I took a few weeks off from lifting for one reason or another, but it's gone after the first or second time back in. This has been months and my training style hasn't changed. I did a Max-OT arm session on Friday and they're still as sore today as they were yesterday. On top of that, somehow my abs are feeling it, too. Now if that were following a deadlift or squat day, I might understand, but arms?! These tend to last 4-5 days and keep me out of the gym an extra day or two in between, because there's no way I'd be able to get the quality of workout in that I want, so I just wait (instead of going in and lifting half the weight I should be able to). I've tried upping BCAAs, adding in some extra glutamine pre-bed, no real dietary changes. No idea what the cause is, so I was just curious if anyone else has ever dealt with this or if anyone has suggestions. Thanks in advance.
    Psalm 34:10 - "The lions may grow weak and hungry, but those who seek the Lord lack no good thing."
    EvoMuse Rep | This is what we've been workin on... | Inspire to Evolve

  2. Elite Member
    TheSwanks's Avatar
    Stats
    5'10"  230 lbs.
    Join Date
    Feb 2012
    Age
    30
    Posts
    8,903
    Rep Power
    7167049
    Level
    96
    Lv. Percent
    42.47%
    Achievements Activity ProActivity AuthorityActivity VeteranActivity RoyaltyPosting Pro

    Quote Originally Posted by MidwestBeast
    Title says it all. For the last few months, I've been getting really, really bad DOMS. I've had this happen in the past if say I took a few weeks off from lifting for one reason or another, but it's gone after the first or second time back in. This has been months and my training style hasn't changed. I did a Max-OT arm session on Friday and they're still as sore today as they were yesterday. On top of that, somehow my abs are feeling it, too. Now if that were following a deadlift or squat day, I might understand, but arms?! These tend to last 4-5 days and keep me out of the gym an extra day or two in between, because there's no way I'd be able to get the quality of workout in that I want, so I just wait (instead of going in and lifting half the weight I should be able to). I've tried upping BCAAs, adding in some extra glutamine pre-bed, no real dietary changes. No idea what the cause is, so I was just curious if anyone else has ever dealt with this or if anyone has suggestions. Thanks in advance.
    Spend more time stretching after your workout. That usually helps for me
    Formutech Nutrition Rep----------------Check out my CONQU3R log!:
    www.formutechnutrition.com------------- http://goo.gl/G8a4Ss
    www.facebook.com/fnutrition
  3. Senior Member
    gregg1494's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2012
    Posts
    1,517
    Rep Power
    103039
    Level
    32
    Lv. Percent
    38.14%
    Achievements Activity ProPosting Pro

    sleeping enough?


    take 2g of ginger daily should help alot
    •   
       

  4. Diamond Member
    MidwestBeast's Avatar
    Stats
    6'1"  228 lbs.
    Join Date
    May 2010
    Age
    29
    Posts
    10,043
    Rep Power
    3092067
    Level
    79
    Lv. Percent
    85.87%
    Achievements Posting ProPosting AuthorityActivity AuthorityActivity ProActivity Veteran

    Quote Originally Posted by cswalczakny View Post
    Spend more time stretching after your workout. That usually helps for me
    Good advice. I've been meaning to focus more on that (and actually wanted to research the DC stretching and incorporate it, too), but have been neglecting it. I'll make sure to be very proactive about that this week and see what difference it makes. Thanks!

    Quote Originally Posted by gregg1494 View Post
    sleeping enough?


    take 2g of ginger daily should help alot
    Generally getting enough sleep. I usually get about 8 hours, though sometimes it can be about 7. Overall, I feel like I do better than most, though (if 7 is "low" then that's not bad). I'll look into the ginger. Thank you.
    Psalm 34:10 - "The lions may grow weak and hungry, but those who seek the Lord lack no good thing."
    EvoMuse Rep | This is what we've been workin on... | Inspire to Evolve
  5. Senior Member
    uvawahoowa's Avatar
    Stats
    6'2"  190 lbs.
    Join Date
    May 2012
    Posts
    1,482
    Rep Power
    31242
    Level
    29
    Lv. Percent
    98%
    Achievements Activity ProPosting Pro

    Quote Originally Posted by MidwestBeast

    Good advice. I've been meaning to focus more on that (and actually wanted to research the DC stretching and incorporate it, too), but have been neglecting it. I'll make sure to be very proactive about that this week and see what difference it makes. Thanks!

    Generally getting enough sleep. I usually get about 8 hours, though sometimes it can be about 7. Overall, I feel like I do better than most, though (if 7 is "low" then that's not bad). I'll look into the ginger. Thank you.
    Lclt helps with doms I believe, if you're not already taking it
  6. Banned
    bmftisftw's Avatar
    Stats
    5'10"  183 lbs.
    Join Date
    Apr 2012
    Age
    22
    Posts
    2,561
    Rep Power
    0
    Level
    46
    Lv. Percent
    36.25%
    Achievements Activity ProPosting Pro

    Quote Originally Posted by uvawahoowa
    Lclt helps with doms I believe, if you're not already taking it
    I'm going to look into this
  7. Diamond Member
    FL3X MAGNUM's Avatar
    Stats
    6'5"  220 lbs.
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Age
    28
    Posts
    11,411
    Rep Power
    4255266
    Level
    86
    Lv. Percent
    68.32%
    Achievements Activity ProActivity AuthorityActivity VeteranPosting ProPosting Authority

    Take 8g citrulline malate and 3g LCLT preworkout. Both are PROVEN to reduce soreness
    Genomyx Rep
    www.genomyx.com
  8. Senior Member
    uvawahoowa's Avatar
    Stats
    6'2"  190 lbs.
    Join Date
    May 2012
    Posts
    1,482
    Rep Power
    31242
    Level
    29
    Lv. Percent
    98%
    Achievements Activity ProPosting Pro

    Quote Originally Posted by FL3X MAGNUM
    Take 8g citrulline malate and 3g LCLT preworkout. Both are PROVEN to reduce soreness
    Citmal huh? Had not read this...is it the citrulline or the malate?
  9. Diamond Member
    FL3X MAGNUM's Avatar
    Stats
    6'5"  220 lbs.
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Age
    28
    Posts
    11,411
    Rep Power
    4255266
    Level
    86
    Lv. Percent
    68.32%
    Achievements Activity ProActivity AuthorityActivity VeteranPosting ProPosting Authority

    Both.
    The malate helps more in preventing lactic acid buildup, and the citrulline helps more in preventing muscle fatigue.
    Genomyx Rep
    www.genomyx.com
  10. Diamond Member
    MidwestBeast's Avatar
    Stats
    6'1"  228 lbs.
    Join Date
    May 2010
    Age
    29
    Posts
    10,043
    Rep Power
    3092067
    Level
    79
    Lv. Percent
    85.87%
    Achievements Posting ProPosting AuthorityActivity AuthorityActivity ProActivity Veteran

    I already dose 7g cit mal pre-workout (and get another 1g intra-workout from Compete + some LCLT via that method, too, but not that much). I'll add the LCLT into pre-workout.
    Psalm 34:10 - "The lions may grow weak and hungry, but those who seek the Lord lack no good thing."
    EvoMuse Rep | This is what we've been workin on... | Inspire to Evolve
  11. Elite Member
    Jiigzz's Avatar
    Stats
    5'10"  205 lbs.
    Join Date
    Mar 2012
    Posts
    5,385
    Rep Power
    4092216
    Level
    79
    Lv. Percent
    57.02%
    Achievements Activity ProActivity AuthorityActivity VeteranPosting ProPosting Authority

    You sure its DOMS thats is the cause? Especially if its in a muscle group that you havent used id be rather sceptical about calling it that. I can undrstand the arms still being sore, DOMS can last a while depending on the level and TUT of eccentric training and/or lack of rest or food for recovery.
  12. Board Sponsor
    Distilled Water's Avatar
    Stats
    5'9"  191 lbs.
    Join Date
    Oct 2006
    Posts
    9,750
    Rep Power
    2154357
    Level
    75
    Lv. Percent
    17.98%
    Achievements Activity VeteranActivity ProActivity AuthorityPosting ProPosting Authority

    Eat more protein or take some time off.

    Don't do DC stretching, that'll make it worse! DOMS is way worse, for me, on DC training. I usually don't get it unless I suddenly add a lot of volume to my training and don't eat enough calories, mostly protein.

    You may be dehydrated also.
    Serious Nutrition Solutions Representative
  13. Senior Member
    asooneyeonig's Avatar
    Stats
    5'10"  200 lbs.
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
    Age
    40
    Posts
    1,213
    Rep Power
    103754
    Level
    29
    Lv. Percent
    30.98%
    Achievements Posting Pro

    have you tried an active recovery workout? just something to flush the muscles with blood.
    you can call me "ozzie" for short.
  14. Senior Member
    ZiR RED's Avatar
    Stats
    6'1"  215 lbs.
    Join Date
    Aug 2010
    Posts
    2,529
    Rep Power
    297849
    Level
    43
    Lv. Percent
    42.18%
    Achievements Activity ProPosting Pro

    Quote Originally Posted by FL3X MAGNUM View Post
    Take 8g citrulline malate and 3g LCLT preworkout. Both are PROVEN to reduce soreness
    Interesting, I have not heard this. I am not doubting you, but can you post ome references, I'm interested in seeing the physiological mechanisms.

    As for lactate, lactic acid DOES NOT cause DOMS. The acid part might cause a burning sensation during metabolic work as it can trigger local muscular nerves, but it does not damage muscle cells and is generally metabolized with 1-4 hours after working out.

    Br
  15. Banned
    bmftisftw's Avatar
    Stats
    5'10"  183 lbs.
    Join Date
    Apr 2012
    Age
    22
    Posts
    2,561
    Rep Power
    0
    Level
    46
    Lv. Percent
    36.25%
    Achievements Activity ProPosting Pro

    Quote Originally Posted by ZiR RED

    Interesting, I have not heard this. I am not doubting you, but can you post ome references, I'm interested in seeing the physiological mechanisms.

    As for lactate, lactic acid DOES NOT cause DOMS. The acid part might cause a burning sensation during metabolic work as it can trigger local muscular nerves, but it does not damage muscle cells and is generally metabolized with 1-4 hours after working out.

    Br
    Zir, can you explain what causes doms? Is it normal or is it from training issues like over training or wrong form... I have always wondered. Or just something that happens to everyone?
  16. Senior Member
    ZiR RED's Avatar
    Stats
    6'1"  215 lbs.
    Join Date
    Aug 2010
    Posts
    2,529
    Rep Power
    297849
    Level
    43
    Lv. Percent
    42.18%
    Achievements Activity ProPosting Pro

    Quote Originally Posted by bmftisftw View Post
    Zir, can you explain what causes doms? Is it normal or is it from training issues like over training or wrong form... I have always wondered. Or just something that happens to everyone?
    You know, we (the scientific community) are still learning about DOMS. The most acceptable explanation (in my opinion) is muscle trauma. Both the sarcolemma (membrane) and myofillaments (contractile proteins) are damaged, as a result, DOMS ensues to send a signal and hopefully prevent further damage or disruption as repair is occuring. Somewhere in there is inflammation as well...which is a double edged sword. Some inflammation is necessary for repair, too much reduces repair and may increase the sensation of DOMS.

    Why causes the muscle damage? Unfamiliar stimulus (like doing a new exercise for the first time hard), excessive volume, and eccentric loading. In a lot of studies, when we want to test recovery, we'll eccentrically load the muscles to cause muscle damage and DOMS.

    Br
  17. Diamond Member
    MidwestBeast's Avatar
    Stats
    6'1"  228 lbs.
    Join Date
    May 2010
    Age
    29
    Posts
    10,043
    Rep Power
    3092067
    Level
    79
    Lv. Percent
    85.87%
    Achievements Posting ProPosting AuthorityActivity AuthorityActivity ProActivity Veteran

    It must mostly be the volume from my HVT stuff and the fact that on Max-OT days, I'm still regularly adding more weight on a weekly basis.

    I haven't really done any active recovery workouts, but my workload (days/week) has gone down over the past few weeks because of this and I'm resting 2-3 days between lifts on occasion, because of it.

    And I deduced later that my abs likely have DOMS because I had them flexed (in effort to keep my gut sucked in) for almost the entire day Saturday at a wedding/reception.
    Psalm 34:10 - "The lions may grow weak and hungry, but those who seek the Lord lack no good thing."
    EvoMuse Rep | This is what we've been workin on... | Inspire to Evolve
  18. Diamond Member
    mattrag's Avatar
    Stats
    5'10"  190 lbs.
    Join Date
    Jul 2011
    Age
    30
    Posts
    10,027
    Rep Power
    335100
    Level
    64
    Lv. Percent
    9.68%
    Achievements Activity ProActivity AuthorityPosting ProPosting AuthorityPosting Veteran

    Quote Originally Posted by MidwestBeast View Post
    It must mostly be the volume from my HVT stuff and the fact that on Max-OT days, I'm still regularly adding more weight on a weekly basis.

    I haven't really done any active recovery workouts, but my workload (days/week) has gone down over the past few weeks because of this and I'm resting 2-3 days between lifts on occasion, because of it.

    And I deduced later that my abs likely have DOMS because I had them flexed (in effort to keep my gut sucked in) for almost the entire day Saturday at a wedding/reception.
    Sounds like you had a rough time at the wedding....


    New movements, lack of sleep, too low protein always have been my enemies in DOMs. And not keeping the muscle that is sore "active" not really stressing it but keeping away from "babying" the area and keeping it mobile instead.
    RecoverBro ELITE
  19. Banned
    bmftisftw's Avatar
    Stats
    5'10"  183 lbs.
    Join Date
    Apr 2012
    Age
    22
    Posts
    2,561
    Rep Power
    0
    Level
    46
    Lv. Percent
    36.25%
    Achievements Activity ProPosting Pro

    Quote Originally Posted by ZiR RED

    You know, we (the scientific community) are still learning about DOMS. The most acceptable explanation (in my opinion) is muscle trauma. Both the sarcolemma (membrane) and myofillaments (contractile proteins) are damaged, as a result, DOMS ensues to send a signal and hopefully prevent further damage or disruption as repair is occuring. Somewhere in there is inflammation as well...which is a double edged sword. Some inflammation is necessary for repair, too much reduces repair and may increase the sensation of DOMS.

    Why causes the muscle damage? Unfamiliar stimulus (like doing a new exercise for the first time hard), excessive volume, and eccentric loading. In a lot of studies, when we want to test recovery, we'll eccentrically load the muscles to cause muscle damage and DOMS.

    Br
    So is there a difference between just being sore and having doms? Or am I just a big ***** after deads / squat workouts?
  20. Diamond Member
    bdcc's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2009
    Posts
    10,246
    Rep Power
    10709852
    Level
    106
    Lv. Percent
    30.94%
    Achievements Activity AuthorityActivity ProActivity VeteranActivity RoyaltyPosting Pro

    I found this all on my own.

    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/17313301

    Responses of criterion variables to different supplemental doses of L-carnitine L-tartrate.

    Abstract

    L-carnitine L-tartrate (LCLT) supplementation beneficially affects markers of postexercise metabolic stress and muscle damage. However, to date, no study has determined the dose response of LCLT to elicit such responses. Therefore, the purpose of this study was to determine the effects of different doses of LCLT on criterion variables previously shown to be responsive to LCLT supplementation. Eight healthy men (22 +/- 3 y, 174 +/- 5 cm, 83.0 +/- 15.3 kg) were supplemented with 0 g, 1 g, and 2 g of LCLT for 3 weeks and then performed a bout of resistance exercise (5 sets of 15-20 repetition maximum with a 2-min rest between sets) with associated blood draws. This procedure was performed in a balanced, randomized, repeated measures design. Serum carnitine concentrations increased (p < or = 0.05) following the 1 g and 2 g doses, with the 2-g dose providing the highest carnitine concentrations. The 1- and 2-g doses reduced postexercise serum hypoxanthine, serum xanthine oxidase, serum myoglobin, and perceived muscle soreness. In conclusion, both the 1- and 2-g doses were effective in mediating various markers of metabolic stress and of muscle soreness. Use of LCLT appears to attenuate metabolic stress and the hypoxic chain of events leading to muscle damage after exercise.
    PES Representative
    http://pescience.com/insider
    http://selectprotein.com
  21. Diamond Member
    FL3X MAGNUM's Avatar
    Stats
    6'5"  220 lbs.
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Age
    28
    Posts
    11,411
    Rep Power
    4255266
    Level
    86
    Lv. Percent
    68.32%
    Achievements Activity ProActivity AuthorityActivity VeteranPosting ProPosting Authority
    Genomyx Rep
    www.genomyx.com
  22. Senior Member
    ZiR RED's Avatar
    Stats
    6'1"  215 lbs.
    Join Date
    Aug 2010
    Posts
    2,529
    Rep Power
    297849
    Level
    43
    Lv. Percent
    42.18%
    Achievements Activity ProPosting Pro

    Quote Originally Posted by FL3X MAGNUM View Post
    Interesting, especially for people who perform high volume moderate rep work (typical hypertrophy based workouts).
  

  
 

Similar Forum Threads

  1. So what's the deal with the 2012 coupon code?
    By Finwe in forum Nutraplanet
    Replies: 1
    Last Post: 02-22-2012, 06:12 PM
  2. Replies: 23
    Last Post: 06-20-2011, 11:20 AM
  3. So what was the bad batch? Mdrol
    By Rommel65 in forum Anabolics
    Replies: 0
    Last Post: 12-11-2009, 02:23 PM
  4. So what's the news on the FDA?
    By Brian5225 in forum Anabolics
    Replies: 0
    Last Post: 04-09-2008, 12:28 PM
  5. So what does the Retain 2.0 actually do?
    By bkoguy07 in forum Supplements
    Replies: 19
    Last Post: 04-13-2007, 10:58 AM

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  
Log in
Log in