Hit a plateau

[Last Stand]

So i'm new to the forum, not sure if this is the right spot on this forum to post this but i'm wondering if i can get some opinions

so for about 8 months now i've been going on this routine and this is where i'm at with the weight

Chest
Flat Dumbbell press- 3x8 90lbs
Decline Dumbbell press- 3x8 85lbs
Incline Dumbbell press- 3x8 60lbs
Machine Flys- 3x10 150lbs

Back
weighted pullups- about 29 in total at 10lbs(though i was doing 26 reps at 25lbs in the middle of my cut, but suddenly that started decreasing so i'm trying to build back up)
weighted chinups- about 20 reps at 10lbs (same issue i was at 24 reps at 25lbs but lost that, bad cut i guess)
rack pulls- 1x12 90lbs, 1x9 120lbs, 1x8 140lbs. didn't add the 35lbs bar into the weight so i guess add that to it.
Superset Dumbbell Shrugs- 3x12 55lbs
Single Arm Cable Rows-- 3x9 70lbs

Core
Machine Ab crunch
weighted twist
leg raise
Side Lean
Lower back extensions

Shoulders and Triceps
Machine Shoulder Press- 3x12 130lbs
Dumbbell Lateral Raises- 3x12 17.5lbs
Tricep cable pushdowns underhand-- 3x12 50lbs
Overhead cable Tricep Extensions-- 3x8 100lbs

Legs and Biceps
Leg Press- 3x10 180lbs
Dumbbell Curls- 3x8 30lbs
Leg Press Calf Raises- 3x20 90lbs
Preacher Curls- 3x10 25lbs
Machine Squats- 3x12 180lbs
Overhead Cable Curls- 3x9 60lbs

this was my workout. i made some strong gains. about an inch each arm and i got my bench strength from 55lbs to 90lbs and my pull ups went up quite a bit until recently.

i'm feeling like i hit a plateau so i was wondering if people can critique my original workout and this new one i came up with. it consists of alternating weeks, 2 of them basically an ABA and BAB type thing but with a leg workout in there. its technically 3 day upper body split 1 day leg thing.

so

Week 1

Chest/Triceps/Shoulders
Legs/ Core
Rest
Back/ Biceps
Chest/ Triceps/ Shoulders
Rest
Rest

Week 2

Back/ Biceps
Legs/ Core
rest
Chest/ Triceps/ Shoulders
Back/ Biceps
rest
rest

now these would obviously alternate every other week so some weeks it'll be 2 chest and the next week would be 2 back. i haven't really ironed out specific exercises yet for each day because i assume i can't go full intensity each day because there probably isn't enough time to recover in between each workout.

trying to get the growth going again

[Jiigzz]

Just some advice, you need more hamstring work, maybe something like good mornings or the like to sort that out. I'd also recommend adding in some unilateral leg work. In all honesty i'd also add in Squats (not machine, just free) and deadlifts. Just too me it seems like that routine is going to leave you top heavy and unbalanced in the legs.

Also interesting that you do not do Barbell for the chest. I would add this in too imo.

Why so many machine assisted lifts? Id drop machine shoulder press for Military press and also you dont do much, if any rear delt work. You def need to hit your rear delts. As you dont do compound bench, perhaps even hitting front delts might be advised as long as you hit the rear delts just as hard. But meh, as long as you hit the rear delts which are not utilised much at all in lat raises or Military press, and if forms not very good, then your anterior delts will be taking most of the strain

Id also add in external/internal rotation work just to help even out any imbalances that may develop and to strengthn up the rotator cuffs.

[Last Stand]

thanks for the reply. i plan on graduating to squats. my problem is i have weak muscles around my knees, and i just want them a little more stable before i get onto squats, but i probably will just do very light squats.

also the reason i don't do barbell bench and do dumbbell is more of an OCD thing where i want to make sure my right side isn't favored. i like to make sure both arms are getting even work.

i've been planning on switching to military press, actually was going to do them today, but my front delts were still sore from my incline dumbbell. for rear delts what do you recommend. i know there are reverse flys but i'm trying to avoid hitting my traps. i hit my traps a ton with rack pulls and shrugs. i am trying to avoid over-training them


what do you think about my split switchup. is hitting chest and back twice a week every other week a good idea? i'm somewhat happy with my current split, but i haven't been able to get past 90lbs bench with the dumbbells.

[Jiigzz]

thanks for the reply. i plan on graduating to squats. my problem is i have weak muscles around my knees, and i just want them a little more stable before i get onto squats, but i probably will just do very light squats.

also the reason i don't do barbell bench and do dumbbell is more of an OCD thing where i want to make sure my right side isn't favored. i like to make sure both arms are getting even work.

i've been planning on switching to military press, actually was going to do them today, but my front delts were still sore from my incline dumbbell. for rear delts what do you recommend. i know there are reverse flys but i'm trying to avoid hitting my traps. i hit my traps a ton with rack pulls and shrugs. i am trying to avoid over-training them


what do you think about my split switchup. is hitting chest and back twice a week every other week a good idea? i'm somewhat happy with my current split, but i haven't been able to get past 90lbs bench with the dumbbells.

For one, you wont over train traps through doing rear delt rows or reverse flys etc. over training has nothing to do with the muscles, it is caused by CNS burnout and isnt as common as you think. Reverse flys wouldnt really activate the traps anyway considering that in order to build the traps, you have to shrug upward or scapula elevation, not extend at the shoulders.

Back to chest though, if you want to get stronger on bench, you will have to start doing compound bench. It simply works all the muscles used to develop bench power, whereas dumbell doesnt. You can also do Flat bench then dumbell press, but dont expect to get over plateaus fast with just dumbells.
Theres more to a bench press that just the chest; strong triceps, a powerful back also have a role to play.
That also being said, bulking will help increase your lifts.

And im just trying to be helpful but the one of the most common things i hear when it comes to skipping squats is weak knee muscles or joints etc. so people skip these in favour of something else, or just dont do them altogether. Weak knees (for the most part, unless diagnosed) is an excuse. If you have to start light, then start light with spotters or in a power rack (all 3 perhaps if nervous about it, id usually always suggest use a power rack in any case). Weak muscles can only be made stronger through training. When you started bench your chest muscles would havebeen weak too, but you started somewhere.

If your anterior deltoids stop you from military pressing, then put shoulders on a different day; but OHP (overhead press) shouldnt tax the anterior deltoid too much unless your form is a little off. ZiR RED posted earlier on another thread about making sure you stand tall and dont lean back, if that means dropping weight to push properly then do so. The further you lean back, then less shoulder activation and more chest and anterior deltoid activation instead of middle deltoid.

And yes Id say you can follow that split but maybe drop the total number of sets while increasing intensity. Ill let someone else speculate on that one.

[Last Stand]

For one, you wont over train traps through doing rear delt rows or reverse flys etc. over training has nothing to do with the muscles, it is caused by CNS burnout and isnt as common as you think. Reverse flys wouldnt really activate the traps anyway considering that in order to build the traps, you have to shrug upward or scapula elevation, not extend at the shoulders.

Back to chest though, if you want to get stronger on bench, you will have to start doing compound bench. It simply works all the muscles used to develop bench power, whereas dumbell doesnt. You can also do Flat bench then dumbell press, but dont expect to get over plateaus fast with just dumbells.
Theres more to a bench press that just the chest; strong triceps, a powerful back also have a role to play.
That also being said, bulking will help increase your lifts.

And im just trying to be helpful but the one of the most common things i hear when it comes to skipping squats is weak knee muscles or joints etc. so people skip these in favour of something else, or just dont do them altogether. Weak knees (for the most part, unless diagnosed) is an excuse. If you have to start light, then start light with spotters or in a power rack (all 3 perhaps if nervous about it, id usually always suggest use a power rack in any case). Weak muscles can only be made stronger through training. When you started bench your chest muscles would havebeen weak too, but you started somewhere.

If your anterior deltoids stop you from military pressing, then put shoulders on a different day; but OHP (overhead press) shouldnt tax the anterior deltoid too much unless your form is a little off. ZiR RED posted earlier on another thread about making sure you stand tall and dont lean back, if that means dropping weight to push properly then do so. The further you lean back, then less shoulder activation and more chest and anterior deltoid activation instead of middle deltoid.

And yes Id say you can follow that split but maybe drop the total number of sets while increasing intensity. Ill let someone else speculate on that one.

i'll input all of that into my workout. now another question i have is all over the internet you see a ton of people say you have to do certain beginners routines to gain muscle

i'm not just starting out. i've been lifting for about 8 months consistently, had lifted before that but never on a consistent program. some of what is said makes sense but also it leaves very little room for adding exercises. i'm just wondering what you and anyone else think about this?

i don't think i'm experienced enough to make my own routine but i don't want to have to be forced into some routine either.

[JoeySon]

For me honestly I had to settle on a routine. I had tried to freelance a few years ago when I first started lifting and my progress was pretty sad lol what are your goals? There's plenty of good beginner routines out there and some great ones for strength as well. I'm currently running stronglifts 5x5 and have seen great progress in strength and form.

[Rodja]

I see 4 GLARING problems with your template: bench press, squats, deads, and overhead presses. They're all missing from your training in addition to other great lifts like dips, close-grip, walking lunges, stiff-legged deads, etc.

[Jiigzz]

i'll input all of that into my workout. now another question i have is all over the internet you see a ton of people say you have to do certain beginners routines to gain muscle

i'm not just starting out. i've been lifting for about 8 months consistently, had lifted before that but never on a consistent program. some of what is said makes sense but also it leaves very little room for adding exercises. i'm just wondering what you and anyone else think about this?

i don't think i'm experienced enough to make my own routine but i don't want to have to be forced into some routine either.

Templates work well because they dont exclude important lifts (well the good ones dont). He can choose to take it or leave it but the exercises I suggested should be staple in ANY good training program. You cant claim to be training for strength if you exclude the very lifts of PL'ers. Bench, Squats, Deads on OHP should be staple as they are some of the most important compound lifts to use.

Also, things like internal/external rotation should also be staple; not to mention other exercises that include commonly missed muscle groups (mid traps, hamstrings and so on) as these help even out any muscular imbalances that will develop over time if neglected.

If you have the knowledge to create your own template then by all means, do so. But a good template and good programming will most likely include all the aforementioned exercises anyway with the exception of perhaps internal/external rotation.

[Last Stand]

i do rack pulls and shrugs is that good enough for mid traps

also i had 2 separate advanced lifters make two different 3-day splits. one based around hypertrophy and the other around strength

strength
Workout A
Squat 5x5
Bench Press 5x5
Barbell Row 5x5
Barbell Shrug 3x8
Overhead Triceps extensions 3x8
Chins 3x5-8
or Striaght Bar/Incline Curl 3x8
Hyperextention 2x10
Kneeling Cable Crunch 3x10-20
oblique twist 3x20

Workout B
Squat 5x5
Rack Pulls 5x5
Standing Press 5x5
Barbell Row 5x5 -10%
CGBP 3x8
Straight Bar or Incline Curl 3x8
Kneeling Cable Crunch 3x10-20
oblique twist 3x20

hypertrophy
MON: QUADS, HAMS, CALVES, ABS
Squat or Front squat (4x6-8)
Lunge or Step up (2x8)
Leg press (3x8)
-
Romanian deadlift (3x6-8)
Leg curl (3x6-8)
-
Standing calf raise (4x8-15)
-
Decline situp (3x8-12)
Hanging leg raise (3x8-12)

WED: CHEST, SHOULDERS, TRICEPS
DB/BB Bench press (4x8)
DB/BB Incline bench press (4x8)
DB flye or cable crossover (2x10-15)
-
DB seated press (3x8)
Cable/DB Rear delt raise or reverse pec deck (3x10-15)
Cable/DB Side raise (3x10-15)
-
Skullcrusher (3x10-12)
DB overhead (3x10-12)

FRI: BACK, BICEPS, FOREARMS
Deadlift (2x5) or rack pull (4x5)
weighted Pullup or chinup (4xMR)
Bentover row (4x10)
BB/DB shrug (4x10)
-
BB/DB curl (3x10-12)
Incline DB curl (3x10-12)
-
Hammer curl (3x10-12)
Wrist curl (3x15)
Reverse wrist curl (3x15)

[Last Stand]

For me honestly I had to settle on a routine. I had tried to freelance a few years ago when I first started lifting and my progress was pretty sad lol what are your goals? There's plenty of good beginner routines out there and some great ones for strength as well. I'm currently running stronglifts 5x5 and have seen great progress in strength and form.

my goals are all aesthetic. people keep saying all over the internet that strength training is different from mass building. that was a little confusing to me. i would have thought they were the same.

[Rodja]

Rack pulls and shrugs hit the upper traps, not the mid traps.

[Last Stand]

I see 4 GLARING problems with your template: bench press, squats, deads, and overhead presses. They're all missing from your training in addition to other great lifts like dips, close-grip, walking lunges, stiff-legged deads, etc.

ya i found that out. they were added when people gave me new workouts. what do you believe is better. 3-day splits or 4-day splits

[Last Stand]

Rack pulls and shrugs hit the upper traps, not the mid traps.

what exercises hit the mid traps

[Rodja]

what exercises hit the mid traps

Things that retract the scapula (e.g. facepulls).

[asooneyeonig]

ya i found that out. they were added when people gave me new workouts. what do you believe is better. 3-day splits or 4-day splits

trick question as it involves interrelated variables like intensity and volume which effect frequency. throw in how many days you can workout, your nutritional intake quality, sleep hygiene, and it can be near impossible to say. and i at times will throw in beliefs in a program. the more you believe in the program the harder you may try which changes intensity which effects volume and frequency needed.

check out this link for all kinds of great mass based programs. pages and pages of them.

[Jiigzz]

my goals are all aesthetic. people keep saying all over the internet that strength training is different from mass building. that was a little confusing to me. i would have thought they were the same.

Yes, they are different.

[Rodja]

my goals are all aesthetic. people keep saying all over the internet that strength training is different from mass building. that was a little confusing to me. i would have thought they were the same.

They essentially are the same thing as they both involve resistance training. Where they differ is the amount of volume, frequency, and, most importantly, nutrition.

[jasonk202]

Jiigzz, joeyson, and rodja have given you the advice that will work best with any plateau and just overall training. I strongly recommend taking a look at joeskopec.com, If you take the time to really read into this website i guarantee you will never bring up hitting a plateau in your training. Keep in mind that a lot of these heavy compound movements require perfect form, these are definitely not exercises you should jump into and start stacking plates. there is a 5x5 routine in the joeskopec website that has plenty of 3 day splits (seemed like you were interested in 3's). Plateau's seem to happen to people who aren't eating right/enough and not getting enough rest, remember those 2 things are more important than what you do in the gym.

[Last Stand]

They essentially are the same thing as they both involve resistance training. Where they differ is the amount of volume, frequency, and, most importantly, nutrition.

i eat pretty clean, about 2,600 calories. 230+ g of protein.

what would be the difference. with strength training i'm guessing people go balls out with their diet while aesthetic they keep it regulated.

[Last Stand]

also i was wondering what exercises would hit these areas of the traps i circled in this picture