Hit a plateau

Page 2 of 2 First 12

  1. Quote Originally Posted by Jiigzz View Post
    Chances are you just can't push as much weight; because you've pre fatigued anterior delts and triceps. But I still don't get why he would recommend not doing them.

    OHP does use the front delt, but it also works the middle delt when performed correctly; i.e. avoiding leaning back when pressing. Leaning back will cause your middle delts to become less activated and puts more strain on your anterior delts. Yeah well I do rotators twice per week, usually on shoulder and leg day. At the end.

    There are a few exercises I myself would do in the place of others, such as close grip bench and dips are probably the BEST tricep excerises (alongside skullcrushers) for building overall mass.
    Ive recently decided i want to do close-grip bench, but because he didn't put it in there I assumed there was reasoning behind it

    With all of the presses I'm doing in that workout would it hurt to replace one tricep exercise with close grip bench?

    Also should I alternate which goes 2nd between shoulder press and incline bench every week so I can push more weight for shoulders every other week?

    Also he gave the option of barbell or dumbbell curls? I did barbell the first time I did the back day. I'm wondering which is a better exercise?


  2. Quote Originally Posted by Last Stand View Post
    Ive recently decided i want to do close-grip bench, but because he didn't put it in there I assumed there was reasoning behind it

    With all of the presses I'm doing in that workout would it hurt to replace one tricep exercise with close grip bench?

    Also should I alternate which goes 2nd between shoulder press and incline bench every week so I can push more weight for shoulders every other week?

    Also he gave the option of barbell or dumbbell curls? I did barbell the first time I did the back day. I'm wondering which is a better exercise?
    Close-grip or JM presses should be the cornerstone of tricep training. Without one of those, you're wasting time if you're trying to build mass. Incline and shoulder press are not interchangeable and you should not view them that way. If you want, switch between seated DB and standing BB for shoulders. Bicep training is not complicated and don't overthink it. Just do 8-12 sets per week on them with enough TUT and weight to stimulate growth.
    M.Ed. Ex Phys

    •   
       


  3. Quote Originally Posted by Rodja View Post
    Close-grip or JM presses should be the cornerstone of tricep training. Without one of those, you're wasting time if you're trying to build mass. Incline and shoulder press are not interchangeable and you should not view them that way. If you want, switch between seated DB and standing BB for shoulders. Bicep training is not complicated and don't overthink it. Just do 8-12 sets per week on them with enough TUT and weight to stimulate growth.
    Ok so I'm assuming incline press is the more important of the two and I should leave it 2nd?

    Just wondered if alternating would allow me to use more weight for either exercise every other week.

    So despite my tricep workout being at the end of a press heavy workout I should be fine replacing a tricep workout with close-grip

    Sounds good. I'll keep that in mind about biceps

  4. Quote Originally Posted by Last Stand View Post
    Ok so I'm assuming incline press is the more important of the two and I should leave it 2nd?

    Just wondered if alternating would allow me to use more weight for either exercise every other week.

    So despite my tricep workout being at the end of a press heavy workout I should be fine replacing a tricep workout with close-grip

    Sounds good. I'll keep that in mind about biceps
    Why would you assume that?
    M.Ed. Ex Phys


  5. Quote Originally Posted by Rodja View Post
    Why would you assume that?
    well i assumed because you said i shouldn't rotate which is second so i just assumed you were telling me to keep incline 2nd. obviously i assumed wrong. does it effect my shoulder growth having overhead presses 3rd on that day

    what would be your order of those 3 exercises
    •   
       


  6. Quote Originally Posted by Last Stand View Post
    well i assumed because you said i shouldn't rotate which is second so i just assumed you were telling me to keep incline 2nd. obviously i assumed wrong. does it effect my shoulder growth having overhead presses 3rd on that day

    what would be your order of those 3 exercises
    I really wouldn't have all three of them in the same day as the 2nd and 3rd will obviously suffer to some degree. IMO, it would be better to increase the frequency, but decrease the volume for each muscle group/movement.
    M.Ed. Ex Phys


  7. will it significantly alter my gains in any way by keeping it the way it is. or would splitting up the shoulder and chest day really enhance it.

  8. Quote Originally Posted by Last Stand View Post
    will it significantly alter my gains in any way by keeping it the way it is. or would splitting up the shoulder and chest day really enhance it.
    You're starting to overthink it again. Try not to micromanage every aspect and focus more on getting a stronger base.

    I'd recommend looking into a more organized training template such as 5/3/1 or DeFranco's Westside system. They have everything laid out with enough variability to not get bored. Once you get a better base, look into something like DC or PHAT.
    M.Ed. Ex Phys


  9. Quote Originally Posted by Rodja View Post
    You're starting to overthink it again. Try not to micromanage every aspect and focus more on getting a stronger base.

    I'd recommend looking into a more organized training template such as 5/3/1 or DeFranco's Westside system. They have everything laid out with enough variability to not get bored. Once you get a better base, look into something like DC or PHAT.
    What he said. I have a pal who works out with me sometimes, he's 70 and he got a PR in standing overhead press last week @ 105 lb. He never started lifting weights until he was 68 and I don't think he did an overhead press until a year ago. He's smart about it though; he knows to warm up without getting too tired before hitting your max, and he knows to pyramid back down after that in order to build muscle. Granted he's not going to build a ton of muscle at 70, but he's certainly in better shape than a lot of guys his age. IMO your workout plans are too busy to help you build strength. In order to do that you should focus on one strength move (compound lift) per workout, which you do as fresh as you can in order to hit your max, then do assistance work after that to build muscle.

  10. My issue with those strength programs is people keep saying they arent good for Hypertrophy which is what I want. I only care about getting bigger. Strength is only a means to an end for me. Im more interested in finding great Hypertrophy workouts

  11. Quote Originally Posted by Last Stand View Post
    My issue with those strength programs is people keep saying they arent good for Hypertrophy which is what I want. I only care about getting bigger. Strength is only a means to an end for me. Im more interested in finding great Hypertrophy workouts
    Those are also the people whose advice you should ignore. A stronger muscle will become a bigger muscle.
    M.Ed. Ex Phys


  12. Quote Originally Posted by Last Stand View Post
    My issue with those strength programs is people keep saying they arent good for Hypertrophy which is what I want. I only care about getting bigger. Strength is only a means to an end for me. Im more interested in finding great Hypertrophy workouts
    They're not different goals. Some people paint them that way but it's not true. Someone said recently, if you can bench 300 lb for reps you won't be complaining about the size of your arms & chest. Conversely, if you bench 135 over and over again expecting your arms & chest to grow you'll be disappointed. Getting bigger and getting stronger go hand in hand. Try it for yourself and you'll see.

  13. Quote Originally Posted by compudog

    They're not different goals. Some people paint them that way but it's not true. Someone said recently, if you can bench 300 lb for reps you won't be complaining about the size of your arms & chest. Conversely, if you bench 135 over and over again expecting your arms & chest to grow you'll be disappointed. Getting bigger and getting stronger go hand in hand. Try it for yourself and you'll see.
    It isn't that simple. There are most definitely considerable differences in training for strength and training for aesthetic. The two are also very different goals. Look at your strength athletes and look at bodybuilders natural and enhanced, alike. They are most often pretty different in a variety of ways. As you climb the ranks into elite levels the differences become increasingly apparent.

    The reasoning behind your statement is that a stronger muscle will be able handle larger loads while training to stimulate hypertrophy and as a result will increase potential for growth. In that you are correct but to put the two on a parallel and say they are one in the same doesn't make any sense. Strength is extremely useful as a bodybuilder, but it is not the main concern just a means to a goal, as stated by the OP.

    As in anything there will be exception and there are genetic freaks that cross over between the boundaries. They posses incredible strength along with aesthetically pleasing physique but in the majority this doesn't happen. Show me a bodybuilder who can squat 1000+, you'll be hard pressed to do so. On the other hand show me a powerlifter with lower lat striations and quad separation, it won't happen.

  14. Quote Originally Posted by NYiron View Post
    It isn't that simple. There are most definitely considerable differences in training for strength and training for aesthetic. The two are also very different goals. Look at your strength athletes and look at bodybuilders natural and enhanced, alike. They are most often pretty different in a variety of ways. As you climb the ranks into elite levels the differences become increasingly apparent.

    The reasoning behind your statement is that a stronger muscle will be able handle larger loads while training to stimulate hypertrophy and as a result will increase potential for growth. In that you are correct but to put the two on a parallel and say they are one in the same doesn't make any sense. Strength is extremely useful as a bodybuilder, but it is not the main concern just a means to a goal, as stated by the OP.

    As in anything there will be exception and there are genetic freaks that cross over between the boundaries. They posses incredible strength along with aesthetically pleasing physique but in the majority this doesn't happen. Show me a bodybuilder who can squat 1000+, you'll be hard pressed to do so. On the other hand show me a powerlifter with lower lat striations and quad separation, it won't happen.
    Sam Byrd.
    M.Ed. Ex Phys


  15. Quote Originally Posted by Rodja

    Sam Byrd.
    Quote Originally Posted by NYiron
    As in anything there will be exception and there are genetic freaks that cross over between the boundaries. They posses incredible strength along with aesthetically pleasing physique but in the majority this doesn't happen.
    I knew someone was going to post up some one that was a successful powerlifter and bodybuilder. In most cases this does not happen and the training does differ significantly. To say they are one in the same isn't the best way to put it.

  16. Quote Originally Posted by NYiron View Post
    I knew someone was going to post up some one that was a successful powerlifter and bodybuilder. In most cases this does not happen and the training does differ significantly. To say they are one in the same isn't the best way to put it.
    I agree, but I think you're going to extremes with going form pure BB'ing to pure PL'ing. Fact is that when you're just building your foundation, using an amalgam of both of them is a great idea. Not so much implementing something as conjugate periodization, which can add a significant amount of mass thanks to the RE and supplemental work, but something that has an eye on both a la PHAT.
    M.Ed. Ex Phys


  17. Quote Originally Posted by Rodja

    I agree, but I think you're going to extremes with going form pure BB'ing to pure PL'ing. Fact is that when you're just building your foundation, using an amalgam of both of them is a great idea. Not so much implementing something as conjugate periodization, which can add a significant amount of mass thanks to the RE and supplemental work, but something that has an eye on both a la PHAT.
    I agree with you as well. I may have been going to the extremes on either end but it was in attempts to define the differences. My thought process was as such due to the post that attempted to blend the two seamlessly as one in the same. But at any rate, both athletes can benefit from a little crossover into the varying training approaches. I myself identify as a bodybuilder but still love me a good ol' ME and DE day.

  18. so i looked at some of those programs that stress making each day about a compound movement. and i basically tried to mold the previous workout i was on around it.

    attempting in someway to get the best of both worlds. essentially the same exercises just moved it to a 4-day split as opposed to 3-day

    shoulders/triceps
    back/ biceps
    off
    legs
    chest
    off
    off

    the legs and back/biceps days would remain the same

    but the difference is obviously in splitting up the 2 push days.

    i was thinking something along these lines.

    chest
    bench
    incline
    close-grip bench
    chest dips
    DB fly

    shoulders/ tris
    military press
    side raise
    rear delt raise
    overhead tricep extension
    skull crushers

    i'm not sure if anyone thinks this is better, or if it is worse. just assuming this may allow for a better shoulder workout. the only thing that i'm on the fence about is the amount of tricep work.

    CGBP, dips, overhead extension, skull crushers in one week seems like a lot. now they are separated by a couple days each, but just wondering if thats too much tricep volume for 1 week

  19. tried the 4 day split, thought it would be a good idea to do military press for 4 sets and then 2 sets of dumbbell presses at a lighter weight. 40lbs.

    well that was a mistake because my left shoulder just couldn't make it through the lateral raises exercises, so obviously i need to take away the 2 dumbbell sets and just stick with the 4 sets of military.

    especially since my tricep part of the workout suffered a little with the extra presses.

    trial and error i guess.

    also my lats are slightly sore. not sure if thats normal with military presses

  20. Quote Originally Posted by Last Stand View Post
    tried the 4 day split, thought it would be a good idea to do military press for 4 sets and then 2 sets of dumbbell presses at a lighter weight. 40lbs.

    well that was a mistake because my left shoulder just couldn't make it through the lateral raises exercises, so obviously i need to take away the 2 dumbbell sets and just stick with the 4 sets of military.

    especially since my tricep part of the workout suffered a little with the extra presses.

    trial and error i guess.

    also my lats are slightly sore. not sure if thats normal with military presses
    Sounds like you're on the right track, I think you'll find your plateau is history in a short while.

  21. supersets and dropsets. Be creative
  •   

      
     

Similar Forum Threads

  1. Hit a Plateau (Critique my diet and routine)
    By fatherenis in forum Bulking
    Replies: 80
    Last Post: 01-27-2010, 07:31 PM
  2. Hit a plateau
    By faceman35 in forum Weight Loss
    Replies: 44
    Last Post: 03-26-2009, 01:56 PM
  3. Hitting a Plateau..
    By mrdamo in forum Weight Loss
    Replies: 18
    Last Post: 10-26-2007, 01:52 PM
  4. desperate - hit a plateau
    By slava in forum Anabolics
    Replies: 11
    Last Post: 05-04-2005, 10:51 PM
  5. Hit a plateau in my fat-loss plan.
    By DieTrying in forum Weight Loss
    Replies: 15
    Last Post: 01-09-2004, 02:58 AM
Log in
Log in