Hit a plateau

[tigerdb2]

You circled the entire traps; upper, middle and lower

[Last Stand]

Ya it was a horrible job of circling. I was in a rush. I'm talking about the bottom half of the circle.

I have this as a back routine

Weighted pull ups: 4xMR
-alternate chin ups-
Weighted chin ups: 4xMR

Rack pulls: 4x5 80lbs each side
Bentover rows: 4x10
DB shrug: 4x10 55lbs

DB curls: 3x10-12
Incline curl: 3x10-12
Hammer curl: 3x10-12

Will I hit that area or do I have to add something else like face pulls / rear delt rows

[Rodja]

i eat pretty clean, about 2,600 calories. 230+ g of protein.

what would be the difference. with strength training i'm guessing people go balls out with their diet while aesthetic they keep it regulated.

It's a bit more complicated than just diet. I touched upon the factors in my previous post.

[Last Stand]

ok so i was wondering. i was given 2 workout plans by two different experienced bodybuilders each sharing different philosophies. one being made around strength and the other being made around hypertrophy. I've said it before, strength is only a means to an end. i'm not lifting to be able to hit certain numbers, i'm lifting for aesthetics. so with those goals in mind which one fits my goals better

this is the strength one ABA BAB format obviously

Workout A
Squat 5x5
Bench Press 5x5
Barbell Row 5x5
Barbell Shrug 3x8
Overhead Triceps extensions 3x8
Chins 3x5-8
or Striaght Bar/Incline Curl 3x8
Hyperextention 2x10
Kneeling Cable Crunch 3x10-20
oblique twist 3x20

Workout B
Squat 5x5
Rack Pulls 5x5
Standing Press 5x5
Barbell Row 5x5 -10%
CGBP 3x8
Straight Bar or Incline Curl 3x8
Kneeling Cable Crunch 3x10-20
oblique twist 3x20

this is the hypertrophy one

MON: QUADS, HAMS, CALVES, ABS
Squat or Front squat (4x6-8)
Lunge or Step up (2x8)
Leg press (3x8)
-
Romanian deadlift (3x6-8)
Leg curl (3x6-8)
-
Standing calf raise (4x8-15)
-
Decline situp (3x8-12)
Hanging leg raise (3x8-12)

WED: CHEST, SHOULDERS, TRICEPS
DB/BB Bench press (4x8)
DB/BB Incline bench press (4x8)
DB flye or cable crossover (2x10-15)
-
DB seated press (3x8)
Cable/DB Rear delt raise or reverse pec deck (3x10-15)
Cable/DB Side raise (3x10-15)
-
Skullcrusher (3x10-12)
DB overhead (3x10-12)

FRI: BACK, BICEPS, FOREARMS
Deadlift (2x5) or rack pull (4x5)
Pullup or chinup (4xMR)
Bentover row (4x10)
BB/DB shrug (4x10)
-
BB/DB curl (3x10-12)
Incline DB curl (3x10-12)
Hammer curl (3x10-12)

[NYiron]

For aesthetic, with goals of hypertrophy and bodybuilding the second workout is much better suited. The first one is a full body program, while it will yield results it isn't an optimal program for your goals. The potential for growth/stimulation in workout 1 especially regarding sarcoplasmic hypertrophy can not be fully realized.

[Last Stand]

For aesthetic, with goals of hypertrophy and bodybuilding the second workout is much better suited. The first one is a full body program, while it will yield results it isn't an optimal program for your goals. The potential for growth/stimulation in workout 1 especially regarding sarcoplasmic hypertrophy can not be fully realized.

Thank you for the reply. So as a whole does the 2nd workout look good, does it hit every muscle well

[loganchristop]

also i was wondering what exercises would hit these areas of the traps i circled in this picture

Attachment 66470

Barbell rows all the way

[Jiigzz]

Why DB seated press over Standing Overhead press?

Also, you'll find that in years to come you might develop very weak rotator cuff muscles from lack of strengthing them but meh.

Saw an article on Anabolic minds home page that demonstartes my point Best Rotator Cuff Exercises then you can follow the menshealth link at the bottom

[Last Stand]

Why DB seated press over Standing Overhead press?

Also, you'll find that in years to come you might develop very weak rotator cuff muscles from lack of strengthing them but meh.

Saw an article on Anabolic minds home page that demonstartes my point then you can follow the menshealth link at the bottom

don't know? i'm assuming he figured i would be unable to perform those correctly after benching and incline benching. i did this workout the other day by the way.

do you think i should rotate the shoulder presses and incline bench every other week or something because when i got to shoulder presses i was pretty much unable to get anywhere close to normal weight. i usually do about 60lbs but was at 40lbs because of the 4 sets of bench and 4 sets of incline

or will the incline hit my shoulders enough that the shoulder presses become a nice add on. ideally i'd like to hit my side delts just as much as my front delts.

also outside of the DB over standing overhead press and rotator cuffs what did you think of the overall workout? also if i were to add rotator cuff workouts would i just leave them at the end of the workout.

[Jiigzz]

Chances are you just can't push as much weight; because you've pre fatigued anterior delts and triceps. But I still don't get why he would recommend not doing them.

OHP does use the front delt, but it also works the middle delt when performed correctly; i.e. avoiding leaning back when pressing. Leaning back will cause your middle delts to become less activated and puts more strain on your anterior delts. Yeah well I do rotators twice per week, usually on shoulder and leg day. At the end.

There are a few exercises I myself would do in the place of others, such as close grip bench and dips are probably the BEST tricep excerises (alongside skullcrushers) for building overall mass.

[Last Stand]

Chances are you just can't push as much weight; because you've pre fatigued anterior delts and triceps. But I still don't get why he would recommend not doing them.

OHP does use the front delt, but it also works the middle delt when performed correctly; i.e. avoiding leaning back when pressing. Leaning back will cause your middle delts to become less activated and puts more strain on your anterior delts. Yeah well I do rotators twice per week, usually on shoulder and leg day. At the end.

There are a few exercises I myself would do in the place of others, such as close grip bench and dips are probably the BEST tricep excerises (alongside skullcrushers) for building overall mass.

Ive recently decided i want to do close-grip bench, but because he didn't put it in there I assumed there was reasoning behind it

With all of the presses I'm doing in that workout would it hurt to replace one tricep exercise with close grip bench?

Also should I alternate which goes 2nd between shoulder press and incline bench every week so I can push more weight for shoulders every other week?

Also he gave the option of barbell or dumbbell curls? I did barbell the first time I did the back day. I'm wondering which is a better exercise?

[Rodja]

Ive recently decided i want to do close-grip bench, but because he didn't put it in there I assumed there was reasoning behind it

With all of the presses I'm doing in that workout would it hurt to replace one tricep exercise with close grip bench?

Also should I alternate which goes 2nd between shoulder press and incline bench every week so I can push more weight for shoulders every other week?

Also he gave the option of barbell or dumbbell curls? I did barbell the first time I did the back day. I'm wondering which is a better exercise?

Close-grip or JM presses should be the cornerstone of tricep training. Without one of those, you're wasting time if you're trying to build mass. Incline and shoulder press are not interchangeable and you should not view them that way. If you want, switch between seated DB and standing BB for shoulders. Bicep training is not complicated and don't overthink it. Just do 8-12 sets per week on them with enough TUT and weight to stimulate growth.

[Last Stand]

Close-grip or JM presses should be the cornerstone of tricep training. Without one of those, you're wasting time if you're trying to build mass. Incline and shoulder press are not interchangeable and you should not view them that way. If you want, switch between seated DB and standing BB for shoulders. Bicep training is not complicated and don't overthink it. Just do 8-12 sets per week on them with enough TUT and weight to stimulate growth.

Ok so I'm assuming incline press is the more important of the two and I should leave it 2nd?

Just wondered if alternating would allow me to use more weight for either exercise every other week.

So despite my tricep workout being at the end of a press heavy workout I should be fine replacing a tricep workout with close-grip

Sounds good. I'll keep that in mind about biceps

[Rodja]

Ok so I'm assuming incline press is the more important of the two and I should leave it 2nd?

Just wondered if alternating would allow me to use more weight for either exercise every other week.

So despite my tricep workout being at the end of a press heavy workout I should be fine replacing a tricep workout with close-grip

Sounds good. I'll keep that in mind about biceps

Why would you assume that?

[Last Stand]

Why would you assume that?

well i assumed because you said i shouldn't rotate which is second so i just assumed you were telling me to keep incline 2nd. obviously i assumed wrong. does it effect my shoulder growth having overhead presses 3rd on that day

what would be your order of those 3 exercises

[Rodja]

well i assumed because you said i shouldn't rotate which is second so i just assumed you were telling me to keep incline 2nd. obviously i assumed wrong. does it effect my shoulder growth having overhead presses 3rd on that day

what would be your order of those 3 exercises

I really wouldn't have all three of them in the same day as the 2nd and 3rd will obviously suffer to some degree. IMO, it would be better to increase the frequency, but decrease the volume for each muscle group/movement.

[Last Stand]

will it significantly alter my gains in any way by keeping it the way it is. or would splitting up the shoulder and chest day really enhance it.

[Rodja]

will it significantly alter my gains in any way by keeping it the way it is. or would splitting up the shoulder and chest day really enhance it.

You're starting to overthink it again. Try not to micromanage every aspect and focus more on getting a stronger base.

I'd recommend looking into a more organized training template such as 5/3/1 or DeFranco's Westside system. They have everything laid out with enough variability to not get bored. Once you get a better base, look into something like DC or PHAT.

[compudog]

You're starting to overthink it again. Try not to micromanage every aspect and focus more on getting a stronger base.

I'd recommend looking into a more organized training template such as 5/3/1 or DeFranco's Westside system. They have everything laid out with enough variability to not get bored. Once you get a better base, look into something like DC or PHAT.

What he said. I have a pal who works out with me sometimes, he's 70 and he got a PR in standing overhead press last week @ 105 lb. He never started lifting weights until he was 68 and I don't think he did an overhead press until a year ago. He's smart about it though; he knows to warm up without getting too tired before hitting your max, and he knows to pyramid back down after that in order to build muscle. Granted he's not going to build a ton of muscle at 70, but he's certainly in better shape than a lot of guys his age. IMO your workout plans are too busy to help you build strength. In order to do that you should focus on one strength move (compound lift) per workout, which you do as fresh as you can in order to hit your max, then do assistance work after that to build muscle.

[Last Stand]

My issue with those strength programs is people keep saying they arent good for Hypertrophy which is what I want. I only care about getting bigger. Strength is only a means to an end for me. Im more interested in finding great Hypertrophy workouts