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    Quote Originally Posted by Last Stand View Post
    My issue with those strength programs is people keep saying they arent good for Hypertrophy which is what I want. I only care about getting bigger. Strength is only a means to an end for me. Im more interested in finding great Hypertrophy workouts
    Those are also the people whose advice you should ignore. A stronger muscle will become a bigger muscle.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Last Stand View Post
    My issue with those strength programs is people keep saying they arent good for Hypertrophy which is what I want. I only care about getting bigger. Strength is only a means to an end for me. Im more interested in finding great Hypertrophy workouts
    They're not different goals. Some people paint them that way but it's not true. Someone said recently, if you can bench 300 lb for reps you won't be complaining about the size of your arms & chest. Conversely, if you bench 135 over and over again expecting your arms & chest to grow you'll be disappointed. Getting bigger and getting stronger go hand in hand. Try it for yourself and you'll see.
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    Quote Originally Posted by compudog

    They're not different goals. Some people paint them that way but it's not true. Someone said recently, if you can bench 300 lb for reps you won't be complaining about the size of your arms & chest. Conversely, if you bench 135 over and over again expecting your arms & chest to grow you'll be disappointed. Getting bigger and getting stronger go hand in hand. Try it for yourself and you'll see.
    It isn't that simple. There are most definitely considerable differences in training for strength and training for aesthetic. The two are also very different goals. Look at your strength athletes and look at bodybuilders natural and enhanced, alike. They are most often pretty different in a variety of ways. As you climb the ranks into elite levels the differences become increasingly apparent.

    The reasoning behind your statement is that a stronger muscle will be able handle larger loads while training to stimulate hypertrophy and as a result will increase potential for growth. In that you are correct but to put the two on a parallel and say they are one in the same doesn't make any sense. Strength is extremely useful as a bodybuilder, but it is not the main concern just a means to a goal, as stated by the OP.

    As in anything there will be exception and there are genetic freaks that cross over between the boundaries. They posses incredible strength along with aesthetically pleasing physique but in the majority this doesn't happen. Show me a bodybuilder who can squat 1000+, you'll be hard pressed to do so. On the other hand show me a powerlifter with lower lat striations and quad separation, it won't happen.
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    Quote Originally Posted by NYiron View Post
    It isn't that simple. There are most definitely considerable differences in training for strength and training for aesthetic. The two are also very different goals. Look at your strength athletes and look at bodybuilders natural and enhanced, alike. They are most often pretty different in a variety of ways. As you climb the ranks into elite levels the differences become increasingly apparent.

    The reasoning behind your statement is that a stronger muscle will be able handle larger loads while training to stimulate hypertrophy and as a result will increase potential for growth. In that you are correct but to put the two on a parallel and say they are one in the same doesn't make any sense. Strength is extremely useful as a bodybuilder, but it is not the main concern just a means to a goal, as stated by the OP.

    As in anything there will be exception and there are genetic freaks that cross over between the boundaries. They posses incredible strength along with aesthetically pleasing physique but in the majority this doesn't happen. Show me a bodybuilder who can squat 1000+, you'll be hard pressed to do so. On the other hand show me a powerlifter with lower lat striations and quad separation, it won't happen.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rodja

    Sam Byrd.
    Quote Originally Posted by NYiron
    As in anything there will be exception and there are genetic freaks that cross over between the boundaries. They posses incredible strength along with aesthetically pleasing physique but in the majority this doesn't happen.
    I knew someone was going to post up some one that was a successful powerlifter and bodybuilder. In most cases this does not happen and the training does differ significantly. To say they are one in the same isn't the best way to put it.
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    Quote Originally Posted by NYiron View Post
    I knew someone was going to post up some one that was a successful powerlifter and bodybuilder. In most cases this does not happen and the training does differ significantly. To say they are one in the same isn't the best way to put it.
    I agree, but I think you're going to extremes with going form pure BB'ing to pure PL'ing. Fact is that when you're just building your foundation, using an amalgam of both of them is a great idea. Not so much implementing something as conjugate periodization, which can add a significant amount of mass thanks to the RE and supplemental work, but something that has an eye on both a la PHAT.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rodja

    I agree, but I think you're going to extremes with going form pure BB'ing to pure PL'ing. Fact is that when you're just building your foundation, using an amalgam of both of them is a great idea. Not so much implementing something as conjugate periodization, which can add a significant amount of mass thanks to the RE and supplemental work, but something that has an eye on both a la PHAT.
    I agree with you as well. I may have been going to the extremes on either end but it was in attempts to define the differences. My thought process was as such due to the post that attempted to blend the two seamlessly as one in the same. But at any rate, both athletes can benefit from a little crossover into the varying training approaches. I myself identify as a bodybuilder but still love me a good ol' ME and DE day.
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    so i looked at some of those programs that stress making each day about a compound movement. and i basically tried to mold the previous workout i was on around it.

    attempting in someway to get the best of both worlds. essentially the same exercises just moved it to a 4-day split as opposed to 3-day

    shoulders/triceps
    back/ biceps
    off
    legs
    chest
    off
    off

    the legs and back/biceps days would remain the same

    but the difference is obviously in splitting up the 2 push days.

    i was thinking something along these lines.

    chest
    bench
    incline
    close-grip bench
    chest dips
    DB fly

    shoulders/ tris
    military press
    side raise
    rear delt raise
    overhead tricep extension
    skull crushers

    i'm not sure if anyone thinks this is better, or if it is worse. just assuming this may allow for a better shoulder workout. the only thing that i'm on the fence about is the amount of tricep work.

    CGBP, dips, overhead extension, skull crushers in one week seems like a lot. now they are separated by a couple days each, but just wondering if thats too much tricep volume for 1 week
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    tried the 4 day split, thought it would be a good idea to do military press for 4 sets and then 2 sets of dumbbell presses at a lighter weight. 40lbs.

    well that was a mistake because my left shoulder just couldn't make it through the lateral raises exercises, so obviously i need to take away the 2 dumbbell sets and just stick with the 4 sets of military.

    especially since my tricep part of the workout suffered a little with the extra presses.

    trial and error i guess.

    also my lats are slightly sore. not sure if thats normal with military presses
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    Quote Originally Posted by Last Stand View Post
    tried the 4 day split, thought it would be a good idea to do military press for 4 sets and then 2 sets of dumbbell presses at a lighter weight. 40lbs.

    well that was a mistake because my left shoulder just couldn't make it through the lateral raises exercises, so obviously i need to take away the 2 dumbbell sets and just stick with the 4 sets of military.

    especially since my tricep part of the workout suffered a little with the extra presses.

    trial and error i guess.

    also my lats are slightly sore. not sure if thats normal with military presses
    Sounds like you're on the right track, I think you'll find your plateau is history in a short while.
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    supersets and dropsets. Be creative
  

  
 

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