Deadlifts?

  1. New Member
    dmax79's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2012
    Posts
    25
    Rep Power
    43
    Level
    5
    Lv. Percent
    9.63%

    Deadlifts?


    Is the trap bar as effective for dead lifts as the barbell?

  2. New Member
    Mr.Beats's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2012
    Posts
    41
    Rep Power
    1449
    Level
    6
    Lv. Percent
    21.07%

    Maybe one of the more experienced guys on here can correct me if I'm wrong, but it's my understanding that using the trap bar makes it more of a knee centric exercise. Almost like a squat, except holding the weight at the sides. Whereas a normal barbell deadlift is a hip centric exercise. Incorporate both!
  3. Professional Member
    pyrobatt's Avatar
    Stats
    6'5"  241 lbs.
    Join Date
    Nov 2011
    Posts
    3,485
    Rep Power
    1214964
    Level
    59
    Lv. Percent
    18.19%
    Achievements Activity ProActivity AuthorityPosting Pro

    Quote Originally Posted by dmax79
    Is the trap bar as effective for dead lifts as the barbell?
    What ever your comfortable with honestly.
    Representative of Chaos and Pain, LLC
    https://www.facebook.com/ChaosAndPain Like us on facebook!
    http://www.chaosandpain.com/
    •   
       

  4. Senior Member
    asooneyeonig's Avatar
    Stats
    5'10"  200 lbs.
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
    Age
    40
    Posts
    1,253
    Rep Power
    106510
    Level
    30
    Lv. Percent
    32.08%
    Achievements Activity ProPosting Pro

    depends. do you want to compete in something that has the deadlift as an event? if not, they are different lifts that will give slightly different results but for the layman it doesnt matter.
    you can call me "ozzie" for short.
  5. Professional Member
    Torobestia's Avatar
    Stats
    6'3"  250 lbs.
    Join Date
    Dec 2010
    Posts
    3,199
    Rep Power
    141053
    Level
    45
    Lv. Percent
    0.27%
    Achievements Activity ProPosting Pro

    Quote Originally Posted by Mr.Beats View Post
    Maybe one of the more experienced guys on here can correct me if I'm wrong, but it's my understanding that using the trap bar makes it more of a knee centric exercise. Almost like a squat, except holding the weight at the sides. Whereas a normal barbell deadlift is a hip centric exercise. Incorporate both!
    Quote Originally Posted by asooneyeonig View Post
    depends. do you want to compete in something that has the deadlift as an event? if not, they are different lifts that will give slightly different results but for the layman it doesnt matter.
    Agreed with both posts.
    Check your form: http://anabolicminds.com/forum/exercise-science/190675-proper-techniques.html
    Log: http://anabolicminds.com/forum/workout-logs/235436-tossing-weight-torobestia.html
  6. Board Sponsor
    Rodja's Avatar
    Stats
    5'10"  230 lbs.
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Age
    30
    Posts
    23,712
    Rep Power
    1317317
    Level
    94
    Lv. Percent
    28.15%
    Achievements Activity RoyaltyActivity VeteranActivity ProActivity AuthorityPosting Pro

    No. Trap is more for the quads and BB is for the hips, which is the purpose of a deadlift.
    M.Ed. Ex Phys
    Performax Labs Product Specialist

  7. New Member
    rw357's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
    Posts
    75
    Rep Power
    2618
    Level
    8
    Lv. Percent
    47.42%

    Quote Originally Posted by Rodja View Post
    No. Trap is more for the quads and BB is for the hips, which is the purpose of a deadlift.
    Not saying you are wrong, but when I do them with a neutral grip, I still feel it in my hams, glutes, erectors, and back. It also feels more comfortable for my shoulders that way. Unless I use do deficits, I don't feel them in my quads.
  8. Professional Member
    hardknock's Avatar
    Stats
    5'10"  185 lbs.
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Posts
    3,210
    Rep Power
    18672
    Level
    40
    Lv. Percent
    35.69%
    Achievements Activity ProPosting Pro

    Quote Originally Posted by rw357 View Post
    Not saying you are wrong, but when I do them with a neutral grip, I still feel it in my hams, glutes, erectors, and back. It also feels more comfortable for my shoulders that way. Unless I use do deficits, I don't feel them in my quads.
    That could be due to your anatomy which i hear many agree with you.

    For me, the trap bar does nothing really for my glutes, hams, or lower back but the bb kills them.

    the trap bar kills my thighs though.
  9. Board Sponsor
    Rodja's Avatar
    Stats
    5'10"  230 lbs.
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Age
    30
    Posts
    23,712
    Rep Power
    1317317
    Level
    94
    Lv. Percent
    28.15%
    Achievements Activity RoyaltyActivity VeteranActivity ProActivity AuthorityPosting Pro

    Quote Originally Posted by rw357 View Post
    Not saying you are wrong, but when I do them with a neutral grip, I still feel it in my hams, glutes, erectors, and back. It also feels more comfortable for my shoulders that way. Unless I use do deficits, I don't feel them in my quads.
    The grip shouldn't make much of a difference as it is the stance that really changes the lift and the weight is closer to the person compared to a BB.
    M.Ed. Ex Phys
    Performax Labs Product Specialist

  10. New Member
    rw357's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
    Posts
    75
    Rep Power
    2618
    Level
    8
    Lv. Percent
    47.42%

    The other aspect, at least for me is, that a very head deadlift kinda "pinches" your shoulders when you do them with a barbell (I am not sure why, but thats what my sports medicine doctor told me when I went to him for shoulder/neck/upper back problems)...that is how I got into neutral deadlifts.
  11. Board Sponsor
    Rodja's Avatar
    Stats
    5'10"  230 lbs.
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Age
    30
    Posts
    23,712
    Rep Power
    1317317
    Level
    94
    Lv. Percent
    28.15%
    Achievements Activity RoyaltyActivity VeteranActivity ProActivity AuthorityPosting Pro

    Quote Originally Posted by rw357 View Post
    The other aspect, at least for me is, that a very head deadlift kinda "pinches" your shoulders when you do them with a barbell (I am not sure why, but thats what my sports medicine doctor told me when I went to him for shoulder/neck/upper back problems)...that is how I got into neutral deadlifts.
    I'm waving the BS flag on this. Isolating chronic issues to a single lift is far-fetched, at best. This sound like more of a postural issue to me.
    M.Ed. Ex Phys
    Performax Labs Product Specialist

  12. Professional Member
    pyrobatt's Avatar
    Stats
    6'5"  241 lbs.
    Join Date
    Nov 2011
    Posts
    3,485
    Rep Power
    1214964
    Level
    59
    Lv. Percent
    18.19%
    Achievements Activity ProActivity AuthorityPosting Pro

    Quote Originally Posted by Rodja
    I'm waving the BS flag on this. Isolating chronic issues to a single lift is far-fetched, at best. This sound like more of a postural issue to me.
    This. Kind of like those guys who bench heavy as hell and develop shoulder issues due to them never hitting rear delts .
    Representative of Chaos and Pain, LLC
    https://www.facebook.com/ChaosAndPain Like us on facebook!
    http://www.chaosandpain.com/
  13. New Member
    rw357's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
    Posts
    75
    Rep Power
    2618
    Level
    8
    Lv. Percent
    47.42%

    Quote Originally Posted by Rodja View Post
    I'm waving the BS flag on this. Isolating chronic issues to a single lift is far-fetched, at best. This sound like more of a postural issue to me.
    Show me where I said that chronic shoulder issues are cause by deadlifts?

    I wasn't doing them at the time, I had stopped all weightlifting. Actually hadn't lifted in years and when I went to the doctor and I told him I wanted to get back into lifting, he had me list out the exercises that I wanted to do and that is what he said. He also told me to avoid lateral raises (never really did them anyway) and upright rows.

    I never said that it was solely based on me doing deadlifts, either, that was your interpretation. My shoulder/back problems where definitely done because a variety of things, including genetic predisposition, untreated sport injuries that happened many years prior, a mild muscle imbalance between upper back and chest, and 15 years of sitting at a desk 16 hours a day at work.

    I have had much better shoulder/back health since seeing the doctor, and I do believe him when he says that barbell deadlifts cause more shoulder stress than trap bar deadlifts. If you want to call that BS, feel free.
  14. Board Sponsor
    Rodja's Avatar
    Stats
    5'10"  230 lbs.
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Age
    30
    Posts
    23,712
    Rep Power
    1317317
    Level
    94
    Lv. Percent
    28.15%
    Achievements Activity RoyaltyActivity VeteranActivity ProActivity AuthorityPosting Pro

    Quote Originally Posted by rw357 View Post
    Show me where I said that chronic shoulder issues are cause by deadlifts?

    I wasn't doing them at the time, I had stopped all weightlifting. Actually hadn't lifted in years and when I went to the doctor and I told him I wanted to get back into lifting, he had me list out the exercises that I wanted to do and that is what he said. He also told me to avoid lateral raises (never really did them anyway) and upright rows.

    I never said that it was solely based on me doing deadlifts, either, that was your interpretation. My shoulder/back problems where definitely done because a variety of things, including genetic predisposition, untreated sport injuries that happened many years prior, a mild muscle imbalance between upper back and chest, and 15 years of sitting at a desk 16 hours a day at work.

    I have had much better shoulder/back health since seeing the doctor, and I do believe him when he says that barbell deadlifts cause more shoulder stress than trap bar deadlifts. If you want to call that BS, feel free.
    Calm down and open up your ears.

    First, let's start here. As demonstrated by the analysis, the hex bar shifts emphasis from the hips/erectors to the knees (e.g. quads), thus showing the efficacy on the standard BB as a whole-body lift. Somewhat analogous to this would be the difference between the front squat and the back squat and the difference in the distribution of loads. Although there are several key errors in the study (e.g. power output), the values show the loads upon the joints.

    Second, I waved the BS flag on your doctor's assertion about the BB deadlift and the "pinching" that you are referring to is a postural issue caused by tightness in the mid/upper traps and general weakness in the area. Watching 99% of people attempt to deadlift is always hilarious because technique is so freaking bad, especially with a standard BB. I have very little faith in sports medicine docs because they seldom actually spend enough time under the bar to know what to do and what not to do and why that is.
    M.Ed. Ex Phys
    Performax Labs Product Specialist

  15. New Member
    rw357's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
    Posts
    75
    Rep Power
    2618
    Level
    8
    Lv. Percent
    47.42%

    Quote Originally Posted by Rodja View Post
    Calm down and open up your ears.

    First, let's start here. As demonstrated by the analysis, the hex bar shifts emphasis from the hips/erectors to the knees (e.g. quads), thus showing the efficacy on the standard BB as a whole-body lift. Somewhat analogous to this would be the difference between the front squat and the back squat and the difference in the distribution of loads. Although there are several key errors in the study (e.g. power output), the values show the loads upon the joints.

    Second, I waved the BS flag on your doctor's assertion about the BB deadlift and the "pinching" that you are referring to is a postural issue caused by tightness in the mid/upper traps and general weakness in the area. Watching 99% of people attempt to deadlift is always hilarious because technique is so freaking bad, especially with a standard BB. I have very little faith in sports medicine docs because they seldom actually spend enough time under the bar to know what to do and what not to do and why that is.
    Sigh. I am calm. If you reread what you said "Isolating chronic issues to a single lift" means that you thought I was saying that bb deadlifts caused this. What I said, and I stand by that trap bar relieves some pressure from the shoulders. If you have problems like I have/had this could be beneficial. I have good form when I deadlift. I learned the hardway. I feel it in my glutes, hams, and erectors. If you don't believe me, fine.
  16. Board Sponsor
    Rodja's Avatar
    Stats
    5'10"  230 lbs.
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Age
    30
    Posts
    23,712
    Rep Power
    1317317
    Level
    94
    Lv. Percent
    28.15%
    Achievements Activity RoyaltyActivity VeteranActivity ProActivity AuthorityPosting Pro

    There's a major problem with your position and that is that you shouldn't "feel" any specific group in the deadlift or squat or bench, etc. These are compound movements (notice how I said movement and not muscle builder) and it is foolish to hope to "feel" these in a specific area. More often than not, that indicates improper biomechanics and/or muscular imbalances. Think whatever you want, but that doesn't make it an educated position.
    M.Ed. Ex Phys
    Performax Labs Product Specialist

  17. New Member
    rw357's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
    Posts
    75
    Rep Power
    2618
    Level
    8
    Lv. Percent
    47.42%

    So, if I do a set of 20 reps of bench, I shouldnt feel it in my chest, anterior delts, and triceps? I honestly don't understand what you mean by that.
  18. Senior Member
    thegodfather's Avatar
    Stats
    5'11"  213 lbs.
    Join Date
    Nov 2008
    Age
    36
    Posts
    1,045
    Rep Power
    113184
    Level
    29
    Lv. Percent
    19.88%
    Achievements Posting Pro

    Quote Originally Posted by rw357 View Post
    So, if I do a set of 20 reps of bench, I shouldnt feel it in my chest, anterior delts, and triceps? I honestly don't understand what you mean by that.
    I think what he means is you shouldnt be able to isolate "one" particular group over the others, you should feel it in all of those muscles equally yet relatively.
  19. Board Sponsor
    Rodja's Avatar
    Stats
    5'10"  230 lbs.
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Age
    30
    Posts
    23,712
    Rep Power
    1317317
    Level
    94
    Lv. Percent
    28.15%
    Achievements Activity RoyaltyActivity VeteranActivity ProActivity AuthorityPosting Pro

    Quote Originally Posted by thegodfather View Post
    I think what he means is you shouldnt be able to isolate "one" particular group over the others, you should feel it in all of those muscles equally yet relatively.
    Bingo.
    M.Ed. Ex Phys
    Performax Labs Product Specialist

  20. New Member
    67nova's Avatar
    Stats
    5'11"  170 lbs.
    Join Date
    Jul 2012
    Age
    39
    Posts
    166
    Rep Power
    14327
    Level
    14
    Lv. Percent
    45.52%

    Trap bars are good to get the hang of deadlifting.You can lift more weight with the trap so dont think you'll be lifting the same weight as a barbell.I noticed my weight goes down by almost 10lbs from the 2.Its a nice change using the trap bar sometimes for a change of pace.I myself like them but stick to the barbell.
  21. New Member
    rw357's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
    Posts
    75
    Rep Power
    2618
    Level
    8
    Lv. Percent
    47.42%

    Now I am more confused, because I said I feel it it in my back, glutes, hams...
  22. Senior Member
    thegodfather's Avatar
    Stats
    5'11"  213 lbs.
    Join Date
    Nov 2008
    Age
    36
    Posts
    1,045
    Rep Power
    113184
    Level
    29
    Lv. Percent
    19.88%
    Achievements Posting Pro

    Quote Originally Posted by rw357
    Now I am more confused, because I said I feel it it in my back, glutes, hams...
    Which is where you should feel it. Variations in lifts can change your center of gravity thus emphasizing on certain muscle groups, however you're still imposing significant tension on all of your body with compound lift so it's hard to "isolate" certain muscles.

    Sent from my iPhone
    Remember why you started.
  23. Elite Member
    CountryLiftin's Avatar
    Stats
    5'9"  195 lbs.
    Join Date
    Sep 2010
    Posts
    5,408
    Rep Power
    814190
    Level
    58
    Lv. Percent
    20.76%
    Achievements Activity AuthorityActivity ProPosting ProPosting Authority

    I have to step out and say that I agree about the differences in the muscles hit with the two types of deads. I can do a lot more weight, and more comfortably with a trap bar. The deadlift truly works the whole body. I think its good to mix them up so you don't over work deads with the bb.

    As far as the pinching of the shoulders with the barbell, I don't know how to address that. I can imagine that the barbel would be harder on your shoulders because of the the grip, lateral versus vertical, and the way it affects the shoulder and what muscles/structures are bearing the weight between the shoulders and the ground, specifically in your upper back. I would imagine it would require a pre existing issue or injury to have any real distress as a result, however.
    Log: http://anabolicminds.com/forum/workout-logs/226478-country-gets-huge.html#post3905023
  24. New Member
    wrathchild281's Avatar
    Stats
    6'1"  195 lbs.
    Join Date
    Aug 2012
    Posts
    289
    Rep Power
    1997
    Level
    14
    Lv. Percent
    55.01%

    Quote Originally Posted by Mr.Beats View Post
    Maybe one of the more experienced guys on here can correct me if I'm wrong, but it's my understanding that using the trap bar makes it more of a knee centric exercise. Almost like a squat, except holding the weight at the sides. Whereas a normal barbell deadlift is a hip centric exercise. Incorporate both!
    Yep one is not Better than the other. If you have sore lower back from heavy squats on back day i would throw in trap bar lifts instead of bb or even try some heavy rack pulls
  

  
 

Similar Forum Threads

  1. Deadlift Question
    By tatortodd in forum Exercise Science
    Replies: 0
    Last Post: 10-07-2003, 02:09 AM
  2. Deadlifts
    By spike1205 in forum Exercise Science
    Replies: 42
    Last Post: 06-16-2003, 03:40 PM
  3. New drug free personal deadlift record
    By phil216 in forum Exercise Science
    Replies: 9
    Last Post: 03-05-2003, 12:54 PM
  4. Deadlift bar ?
    By Van Zant '89' in forum Exercise Science
    Replies: 24
    Last Post: 03-04-2003, 10:29 AM
  5. Deadlift
    By sage in forum Exercise Science
    Replies: 5
    Last Post: 12-14-2002, 05:02 PM

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  
Log in
Log in