Review my weight training routine..

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  1. Review my weight training routine..


    Hi,

    I currently 204/205 LB... Approx 15% BF... Eating 1k Cal above maint.

    I wanna stop doing splits to save time and build over all mass better... Splits really dont do much for me.


    I planned my new routine as below. 3x a week.

    Bent over rows - 8x4
    Bench Press - 8x4
    Upright Rows - 8x4
    Curl / Hammer Curl - 10x3
    Skull Crusher - 10 x 3

    I know to obviously vary it up a little but thats my general plan.

    Some days will replace some exercises with Arnold press, Dips, Lat pulldown.... but main routine is above.

    Let me know what you think please (havent included legs as I will still be having a leg day... Now and then :P)


  2. Quote Originally Posted by benjwg View Post
    Hi,

    I currently 204/205 LB... Approx 15% BF... Eating 1k Cal above maint.

    I wanna stop doing splits to save time and build over all mass better... Splits really dont do much for me.


    I planned my new routine as below. 3x a week.

    Bent over rows - 8x4
    Bench Press - 8x4
    Upright Rows - 8x4
    Curl / Hammer Curl - 10x3
    Skull Crusher - 10 x 3

    I know to obviously vary it up a little but thats my general plan.

    Some days will replace some exercises with Arnold press, Dips, Lat pulldown.... but main routine is above.

    Let me know what you think please (havent included legs as I will still be having a leg day... Now and then :P)

    Do legs more than "now and then" if you really want to build mass.
    •   
       


  3. Quote Originally Posted by boogyman

    Do legs more than "now and then" if you really want to build mass.
    correct
    OLYMPUS UK REP

  4. ive had better luck doing a four day routine
    monday-upper body,bench, bent rows,incline db's,pullups and some bicep and triceps
    tuesday-squat,stiff legged dl,curls and extensions,calves
    thursday-upperbody repeat
    friday- lowerbody repeat
    thats just a rough sketch of mine, of course i do abs and other things etc...change it up after 4 or 5 weeks
    if you want to save time i have had really good results with supersets. so super set bench with bent rows etc. im never in the gym longer than 45min-1hour

  5. Quote Originally Posted by boogyman View Post
    Do legs more than "now and then" if you really want to build mass.
    Quote Originally Posted by boogyman View Post
    Do legs more than "now and then" if you really want to build mass.
    Nah, my legs are huge due to rugby... I get a hardcore leg workout during training/matches ... probably twice a week. I get better pumps during that than after a session in the gym.

    As for the upper body - does the routine look OK?

    I want more upper body mass, i'm fine with legs as it stands... (No pun intended)

  6. Quote Originally Posted by jlpurkey View Post
    ive had better luck doing a four day routine
    monday-upper body,bench, bent rows,incline db's,pullups and some bicep and triceps
    tuesday-squat,stiff legged dl,curls and extensions,calves
    thursday-upperbody repeat
    friday- lowerbody repeat
    thats just a rough sketch of mine, of course i do abs and other things etc...change it up after 4 or 5 weeks
    if you want to save time i have had really good results with supersets. so super set bench with bent rows etc. im never in the gym longer than 45min-1hour
    Sounds good to me but will be doing upper 3x lower maybe 1x

    Thanks for ideas.

  7. its terrible. please, for your own sake get on a proven program. do it for at least 6 months. then try another one if you want. but follow whichever one you want exactly as written. if what you are posting is any sign of your capacity to design a program then there is a lot to learn. and there is no shame in that. even the greats are still learning.

    if you really want to be a bodybuilder try this:
    http://tnation.t-nation.com/free_onl..._that_dumb_one
    there are plenty of great routines.

    if you to train as an athlete and get bigger try a 5x5 program (madcow, texas method, bill star) or 5/3/1 with the boring but big accessories.
    you can call me "ozzie" for short.

  8. Quote Originally Posted by benjwg View Post
    Nah, my legs are huge due to rugby... I get a hardcore leg workout during training/matches ... probably twice a week. I get better pumps during that than after a session in the gym.

    As for the upper body - does the routine look OK?

    I want more upper body mass, i'm fine with legs as it stands... (No pun intended)
    Upper body will grow better if you do lower body movements. Good chance a bunch of people come in this thread and probably tell you the same thing, because its just the way it is.

  9. Quote Originally Posted by benjwg View Post
    Nah, my legs are huge due to rugby... I get a hardcore leg workout during training/matches ... probably twice a week. I get better pumps during that than after a session in the gym.

    As for the upper body - does the routine look OK?

    I want more upper body mass, i'm fine with legs as it stands... (No pun intended)
    Every athlete will still benefit from leg training as it helps to correct imbalances and increase both dynamic and maximal strength.

    Quote Originally Posted by boogyman View Post
    Upper body will grow better if you do lower body movements. Good chance a bunch of people come in this thread and probably tell you the same thing, because its just the way it is.
    While I agree with the sentiment of training legs, this saying is annoying and based on nothing.
    M.Ed. Ex Phys


  10. Quote Originally Posted by Rodja View Post
    Every athlete will still benefit from leg training as it helps to correct imbalances and increase both dynamic and maximal strength.



    While I agree with the sentiment of training legs, this saying is annoying and based on nothing.
    I was under the assumption that the working bigger muscle groups will cause more growth hormone release. Maybe this is outdated thinking and if its wrong I appologize. I still think there is something to this, as I get my best strength increases and mass gains if I am working my lower body. When I was younger I rarely worked legs and my upper body strength would stagnate. Now that I work my lower body equally my strength and mass gains are greater and consistant, even on upper body movements.
    •   
       


  11. Quote Originally Posted by boogyman View Post
    I was under the assumption that the working bigger muscle groups will cause more growth hormone release. Maybe this is outdated thinking and if its wrong I appologize. I still think there is something to this, as I get my best strength increases and mass gains if I am working my lower body. When I was younger I rarely worked legs and my upper body strength would stagnate. Now that I work my lower body equally my strength and mass gains are greater and consistant, even on upper body movements.
    The whole GH/test increase is overblown. While there is an acute increase, it is far too short to make any difference.
    M.Ed. Ex Phys


  12. Any data or articles with that?

  13. Quote Originally Posted by asooneyeonig View Post
    its terrible. please, for your own sake get on a proven program. do it for at least 6 months. then try another one if you want. but follow whichever one you want exactly as written. if what you are posting is any sign of your capacity to design a program then there is a lot to learn. and there is no shame in that. even the greats are still learning.

    if you really want to be a bodybuilder try this:
    tnation.t-nation.com/free_online_forum/sports_body_training_performan ce_bodybuilding/do_this_routine_instead_of_tha t_dumb_one
    there are plenty of great routines.

    if you to train as an athlete and get bigger try a 5x5 program (madcow, texas method, bill star) or 5/3/1 with the boring but big accessories.
    If i want to be a bodybuilder ? I am.

    I did say I dont want to do splits any more.... so not doing the routine on the post you linked me.

    I want 3x sessions a week full upper body workouts.

    Your telling me to learn but only tell me my planned routine is terrible without any reason... Why is it terrible? How could it be improved? What does it not do that I will want it to do?

    I do like the 5x5 program but it leaves me feeling like I havent done enough which is why I aim for 8.

    I cant do 5,3,1 unless I have a spotter which isn't too often.

    My logic for my plan was bench, skulls, curls for my tri's
    Bench, Upright rows, bent over rows for chest, shoulders, back and slightly biceps.
    Curls - more for biceps.
    Arnold Press - More for shoulders

    Please explain why this isnt a full upper body workout and why it wont do what I want it to?

    I figured hitting the same muscle groups twice in a session with mainly compound lifts would be fine, why wouldnt it be?

    Browsing the internet the routine I planned looked similar to Peters on sixpackfactory.com/killer-full-upper-body-workout-chest-back-triceps-shoulders-biceps/

    Only difference is he is doing side lateral raise where I am suggesting upright row and the bent over tricep extension he does I replaced with skull crushers.

    Exercises that seem to work very similar muscle groups.

    Thanks for any more input.

  14. Quote Originally Posted by benjwg View Post
    If i want to be a bodybuilder ? I am.

    I did say I dont want to do splits any more.... so not doing the routine on the post you linked me.

    I want 3x sessions a week full upper body workouts.

    Your telling me to learn but only tell me my planned routine is terrible without any reason... Why is it terrible? How could it be improved? What does it not do that I will want it to do?

    I do like the 5x5 program but it leaves me feeling like I havent done enough which is why I aim for 8.

    I cant do 5,3,1 unless I have a spotter which isn't too often.

    My logic for my plan was bench, skulls, curls for my tri's
    Bench, Upright rows, bent over rows for chest, shoulders, back and slightly biceps.
    Curls - more for biceps.
    Arnold Press - More for shoulders

    Please explain why this isnt a full upper body workout and why it wont do what I want it to?

    I figured hitting the same muscle groups twice in a session with mainly compound lifts would be fine, why wouldnt it be?

    Browsing the internet the routine I planned looked similar to Peters on sixpackfactory.com/killer-full-upper-body-workout-chest-back-triceps-shoulders-biceps/

    Only difference is he is doing side lateral raise where I am suggesting upright row and the bent over tricep extension he does I replaced with skull crushers.

    Exercises that seem to work very similar muscle groups.

    Thanks for any more input.
    A lot of people have had good results following the madcow 5x5, but using 4x8 set/rep scheme.

  15. Quote Originally Posted by benjwg View Post
    If i want to be a bodybuilder ? I am.

    I did say I dont want to do splits any more.... so not doing the routine on the post you linked me.

    I want 3x sessions a week full upper body workouts.

    Your telling me to learn but only tell me my planned routine is terrible without any reason... Why is it terrible? How could it be improved? What does it not do that I will want it to do?

    I do like the 5x5 program but it leaves me feeling like I havent done enough which is why I aim for 8.

    I cant do 5,3,1 unless I have a spotter which isn't too often.

    My logic for my plan was bench, skulls, curls for my tri's
    Bench, Upright rows, bent over rows for chest, shoulders, back and slightly biceps.
    Curls - more for biceps.
    Arnold Press - More for shoulders

    Please explain why this isnt a full upper body workout and why it wont do what I want it to?

    I figured hitting the same muscle groups twice in a session with mainly compound lifts would be fine, why wouldnt it be?

    Browsing the internet the routine I planned looked similar to Peters on sixpackfactory.com/killer-full-upper-body-workout-chest-back-triceps-shoulders-biceps/

    Only difference is he is doing side lateral raise where I am suggesting upright row and the bent over tricep extension he does I replaced with skull crushers.

    Exercises that seem to work very similar muscle groups.

    Thanks for any more input.
    No, you're not a BB'er as your plan ignores legs and has no real rhyme or reason to it. You just threw a handful of lifts together and are hoping for the best.
    M.Ed. Ex Phys


  16. Quote Originally Posted by Rodja View Post
    No, you're not a BB'er as your plan ignores legs and has no real rhyme or reason to it. You just threw a handful of lifts together and are hoping for the best.
    I explained my reason to it... still no reason why it wouldnt work.... maybe give 1 reason why it wont please? you really arnt helping.

    Im not a BBer because Im trying to even my upper body out in comparison to my legs? yah that makes sense.

    I already stated I do legs once a week along with my sport using more power in my legs than any other... Why would i want to do this more when my leg muscles are practically out of proportion with my upper body as my lower is bigger/ stronger...

  17. Quote Originally Posted by boogyman View Post
    A lot of people have had good results following the madcow 5x5, but using 4x8 set/rep scheme.
    I dont doubt you at all on this.

    My understanding is the 5x5 is

    Day 1 - squat, bench, row.

    Day 2 - Squat, Military press, Deadlifts

    Day 3 Squat, bench, row.

    Is that right?

    Thanks.

  18. Quote Originally Posted by benjwg View Post
    I explained my reason to it... still no reason why it wouldnt work.... maybe give 1 reason why it wont please? you really arnt helping.

    Im not a BBer because Im trying to even my upper body out in comparison to my legs? yah that makes sense.

    I already stated I do legs once a week along with my sport using more power in my legs than any other... Why would i want to do this more when my leg muscles are practically out of proportion with my upper body as my lower is bigger/ stronger...
    The reason it will have limited success is the lack of variety and that the "program" lacks any real sense of progression or overload. The body will adapt to relatively quickly to a very basic and lackluster routine like this.

    Also, the workout from a game of rugby is nowhere near a structured leg workout not to mention the fact that there is limited hamstring and glute involvement. Unless your vastus medialis is drooping over your patella, you still need to train your legs.
    M.Ed. Ex Phys


  19. Quote Originally Posted by Rodja View Post
    Every athlete will still benefit from leg training as it helps to correct imbalances and increase both dynamic and maximal strength.



    While I agree with the sentiment of training legs, this saying is annoying and based on nothing
    .
    There's a couple articles on JSCR that show increased upper body gains in full body training vs. upper body only. I've looked, can't find the ones I'm referencing, and am sick of looking.

    Granted, they were in subjects (IIRC) with very low training levels. So that may have some impact.

    As for the GH/Test response. Kraemer showed that the acute response declines after 6-8 weeks of training in trained subjects. I'm not sure how (or if) they periodized the program, but they concluded that the importance put on the response is overblown at least in trained subjects.

    As to how the lower body training benefits the upper. In the case of untrained who see a huge response in test, there are more androgen receptors in the upper body, and as such, that may lead to it. It could also be case of improved CNS function with compound lower body training.

    Or, more likely, the improvements in the core musculature with lower body training results in an improvement in force production by the upper.

    Br

  20. Quote Originally Posted by ZiR RED View Post
    There's a couple articles on JSCR that show increased upper body gains in full body training vs. upper body only. I've looked, can't find the ones I'm referencing, and am sick of looking.

    Granted, they were in subjects (IIRC) with very low training levels. So that may have some impact.

    As for the GH/Test response. Kraemer showed that the acute response declines after 6-8 weeks of training in trained subjects. I'm not sure how (or if) they periodized the program, but they concluded that the importance put on the response is overblown at least in trained subjects.

    As to how the lower body training benefits the upper. In the case of untrained who see a huge response in test, there are more androgen receptors in the upper body, and as such, that may lead to it. It could also be case of improved CNS function with compound lower body training.

    Or, more likely, the improvements in the core musculature with lower body training results in an improvement in force production by the upper.

    Br
    My main thing is that the idea of whole-body growth doesn't hold up with simple observation. It's far too common to see highly trained upper bodies with the lower body of a marathon runner.
    M.Ed. Ex Phys


  21. Quote Originally Posted by Rodja View Post
    The reason it will have limited success is the lack of variety and that the "program" lacks any real sense of progression or overload. The body will adapt to relatively quickly to a very basic and lackluster routine like this.

    Also, the workout from a game of rugby is nowhere near a structured leg workout not to mention the fact that there is limited hamstring and glute involvement. Unless your vastus medialis is drooping over your patella, you still need to train your legs.
    Did I say I dont train my legs? I do this once a week.
    either way, my legs are too big for my liking in comparison to the rest of me mk

    Thanks for a bit of constructive criticism about the workout though.

    I agree the variety does suck but still seems to me it will hit the muscles I would want it to as much as I would like. Its the only problem with home gyms... More variety needs more space

    I figured ramping the weight up every week would give me the benefits I was after.

    Think I will go with boogymans suggestion but 3 exercises a day 3x a week just seems lazy lol

  22. Quote Originally Posted by benjwg View Post
    Did I say I dont train my legs? I do this once a week.
    either way, my legs are too big for my liking in comparison to the rest of me mk

    Thanks for a bit of constructive criticism about the workout though.

    I agree the variety does suck but still seems to me it will hit the muscles I would want it to as much as I would like. Its the only problem with home gyms... More variety needs more space

    I figured ramping the weight up every week would give me the benefits I was after.

    Think I will go with boogymans suggestion but 3 exercises a day 3x a week just seems lazy lol
    Linear periodization doesn't work.
    M.Ed. Ex Phys


  23. Quote Originally Posted by Rodja View Post
    Linear periodization doesn't work.
    Saying it does not work is not really accurate. I would rephrase that to say it will not work for a long period of time. Thats why there are dual factor 5x5s (among a myriad of other programs) when one has progressed past the point a linear workout will work.

  24. Quote Originally Posted by benjwg View Post
    Did I say I dont train my legs? I do this once a week.
    either way, my legs are too big for my liking in comparison to the rest of me mk

    Thanks for a bit of constructive criticism about the workout though.

    I agree the variety does suck but still seems to me it will hit the muscles I would want it to as much as I would like. Its the only problem with home gyms... More variety needs more space

    I figured ramping the weight up every week would give me the benefits I was after.

    Think I will go with boogymans suggestion but 3 exercises a day 3x a week just seems lazy lol
    You don't have to do just three exercises. The correct placement of accessory movements will add a lot to a standard 5x5. These movements should be used to fix weak areas or address flaws.

  25. Quote Originally Posted by Rodja View Post
    My main thing is that the idea of whole-body growth doesn't hold up with simple observation. It's far too common to see highly trained upper bodies with the lower body of a marathon runner.
    Very true.... their is many of these guys at my gym. Just wanted to know if their had been any research done. I guess their is almost too many variables to prove it does make an overall difference working legs. But Im trying to build with proportion so ill keep squatting.

  26. Quote Originally Posted by boogyman View Post
    Saying it does not work is not really accurate. I would rephrase that to say it will not work for a long period of time. Thats why there are dual factor 5x5s (among a myriad of other programs) when one has progressed past the point a linear workout will work.
    I'll stick with that it doesn't work as progress is measured over years and not months.
    M.Ed. Ex Phys


  27. I think progress is progress. You add 50lbs of weight to a movement or 10lbs lean body mass to your body, in say 3-4 months, than whatever you did in that period of worked and you "progressed".

  28. Quote Originally Posted by boogyman View Post
    I think progress is progress. You add 50lbs of weight to a movement or 10lbs lean body mass to your body, in say 3-4 months, than whatever you did in that period of worked and you "progressed".
    I think you two may be on slightly different pages. I think your point is well taken that the gains one might experience on a 5x5 could be rapid (say if you're a beginner/intermediate lifter [not even a powerlifter just a lifter]), say for instance 50lbs of mass in 3-4 months. However, his point is that if you stuck to that routine for 3-5 years, even if you took into account resets and small adjustments to 5x5, you would stall fast, and only net another 10-15lbs on top of the 50 for a total of 70lbs after 3 years. This would be in contrast to something that nets you 5lbs a month, but allows for a more continuous period of growth, and at the end of 3 years you now have 180lbs of growth. Obviously you don't see that many 370-430lb people of muscle walking around, but you get the picture now I hope.

    The utility of 5x5 for a short term, rapid gains phase I don't think is highly disputed. However, it's greatest utility is just that- for short-term, fast gains. Once you plateau a number of times, switch to a routine with smart(er) periodization.
    Check your form: http://anabolicminds.com/forum/exercise-science/190675-proper-techniques.html
    Log: http://anabolicminds.com/forum/workout-logs/235436-tossing-weight-torobestia.html

  29. Quote Originally Posted by Torobestia View Post
    I think you two may be on slightly different pages. I think your point is well taken that the gains one might experience on a 5x5 could be rapid (say if you're a beginner/intermediate lifter [not even a powerlifter just a lifter]), say for instance 50lbs of mass in 3-4 months. However, his point is that if you stuck to that routine for 3-5 years, even if you took into account resets and small adjustments to 5x5, you would stall fast, and only net another 10-15lbs on top of the 50 for a total of 70lbs after 3 years. This would be in contrast to something that nets you 5lbs a month, but allows for a more continuous period of growth, and at the end of 3 years you now have 180lbs of growth. Obviously you don't see that many 370-430lb people of muscle walking around, but you get the picture now I hope.

    The utility of 5x5 for a short term, rapid gains phase I don't think is highly disputed. However, it's greatest utility is just that- for short-term, fast gains. Once you plateau a number of times, switch to a routine with smart(er) periodization.

    I agree with what you say and have said things along the same lines in a few posts like this. I said as much in post#23 (worded a little different, but the sentiment was the same). I think we disagree on programming for a new/intermediate lifter.

  30. Quote Originally Posted by boogyman View Post
    I think progress is progress. You add 50lbs of weight to a movement or 10lbs lean body mass to your body, in say 3-4 months, than whatever you did in that period of worked and you "progressed".
    Progress for a newbie is easy and can be done with practically any template provided intensity is present. 5x5 and/or SS, for all of their merits, have a very limited shelf life and efficacy to a trainee since linear and/or Western periodization are poor choices for long-term progress. Adding 50 lbs to a squat when your max is 225 isn't exactly something that is difficult to do.
    M.Ed. Ex Phys

  

  
 

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