21s for huge growth or just a pump?

[napalm]

Man, did this thread turn into one big piece of s.hit

[VS91588]

Where's your evidence for the first part? Why don't you read again...

Well here is an article that explains a lil bit of both... FST7 is a new training principle from Hany Rambod so you can take it any way you like it. It's a routine based on ppl who like high volume training.. He also explains about the "pump"... I read up on FST7 and gave it a shot and have been doing it for a year now and has seen great improvements.. Sometimes it's ok to go outside the box and try something new. You never know unless you try it out and not be ignorant

[tyga tyga]

DC training. Nuff said lol

Seriously, why so serious?

[AaronJP1]

As heavy as you can (not maxxing) for as many reps as you can.

[napalm]

And anyone who uses the term 'pump' in reference to training is by definition a douche

[Rodja]

Well here is an article that explains a lil bit of both... FST7 is a new training principle from Hany Rambod so you can take it any way you like it. It's a routine based on ppl who like high volume training.. He also explains about the "pump"... I read up on FST7 and gave it a shot and have been doing it for a year now and has seen great improvements.. Sometimes it's ok to go outside the box and try something new. You never know unless you try it out and not be ignorant

Pumps do not mean a thing to growth. To borrow from a friend on the topic (Zir):

"The pump is due to increased pressure in the vessels forcing fluid out into the interstitial space (the area outside of the muscle cells and blood vessels). As a result of this high pressure, some capillaries may actually be compressed and a lack of blood flow will be delivered. In addition, the high pressure reduces nutrient exchange and waste product removal. Which, in terms of signalling hypertrophy, is not an overall bad thing (see KATSU training). The pump, can however, reduce recovery due to fluid not reentering the system and a build up of inflammatory chemicals, which is one of the main reasons for performing a warm down and even cryotherapy (icing, ice baths, contrast showers, etc.) post workout."

Another thing to consider is this: in order to send more blood to one area, you have to reduce the amount in another and it's usually from the digestive tract. This results not only in the aforementioned scenario, but in also slowing down the digestive process and delivering nutrients.

[soopamyko]

i say both!

[VS91588]

And anyone who uses the term 'pump' in reference to training is by definition a douche

I guess Arnold Schwarzenegger is riding on the douche train

[napalm]

I guess Arnold Schwarzenegger is riding on the douche train

I think the strength and conditioning world has learned a little about the training process since the 70's.

[VS91588]

I think the strength and conditioning world has learned a little about the training process since the 70's.

Yes it did but his physique is timeless and ppl still strive to look like him... He was ahead of his time and if he was taking the amount of gear these new guys are taking I bet he would tower over all of them

[Rodja]

So you devalue Tate's opinion because you disagree, but value Arnold's opinion because you agree? A little consistency in your argument would help.

[VS91588]

So you devalue Tate's opinion because you disagree, but value Arnold's opinion because you agree? A little consistency in your argument would help.

I never said that but in terms that 21s are for "wussys" I will devalue that opinion since he provided no educated reason other than sounding like an average joe on the forums with bro-science. My argument issssss we should always try out new exercises and there isn't anything wrong with doing 21s once and a while just to switch things up from normal traditional sets. Tate is obviously all about strength and conditioning and not much on bodybuilding and believe me I do stick to basic movements such as barbell curls, bench press, shoulder press, dead lifts and squats because the basic movements work. But it does not hurt to throw in different movements once and a while

[Rodja]

I never said that. My argument issssss we should always try out new exercises and there isn't anything wrong with doing 21s once and a while just to switch things up from normal traditional sets. Tate is obviously all about strength and conditioning and not much on bodybuilding and believe me I do stick to basic movements such as barbell curls, bench press, shoulder press, dead lifts and squats because the basic movements work. But it does not hurt to throw in different movements once and a while

You insulted Tate and defended Arnold. How is that not what you said and you really need to stop talking about Tate since you obviously have no clue about him. In fact, you really should just stop posting altogether and spend more time learning.

[VS91588]

You insulted Tate and defended Arnold. How is that not what you said and you really need to stop talking about Tate since you obviously have no clue about him. In fact, you really should just stop posting altogether and spend more time learning.

Whatever you believe in is fine with you. We are 2 different ppl who obviously believe in 2 different training styles. I respect your opinion so how about you respect mine. Are you mad because I dont agree with you or something? And are you really mad because I thought Tates post was not educated for a man of his stature? Are you a close personal friend of his that you arguing for about 2 days with me now? What is he in relation to you? I said nothing wrong other than you should not neglect exercises because it's good to change things up. Do you comprehend what I am saying? I don't have to train the way you do and you don't have to train the way I do. I'm concerned about my body and how I look and competing in NPC bodybuilding shows. I'm 5'8" 230lbs and I have nothing to prove to you or any1. I'm not a powerlifter I bodybuild and yes I have much respect for those guys but that's not my game.

[Rodja]

Whatever you believe in is fine with you. We are 2 different ppl who obviously believe in 2 different training styles. I respect your opinion so how about you respect mine. Are you mad because I dont agree with you or something? And are you really mad because I thought Tates post was not educated for a man of his stature? Are you a close personal friend of his that you arguing for about 2 days with me now? What is he in relation to you? I said nothing wrong other than you should not neglect exercises because it's good to change things up. Do you comprehend what I am saying? I don't have to train the way you do and you don't have to train the way I do. I'm concerned about my body and how I look and competing in NPC bodybuilding shows. I'm 5'8" 230lbs and I have nothing to prove to you or any1. I'm not a powerlifter I bodybuild and yes I have much respect for those guys but that's not my game.

You're avoiding again. You made a statement regarding the pump and have nothing to back up that claim. Meanwhile, you got all butthurt over a piece that was obviously tongue in cheek and insulted someone that I have great respect for and I have learned a great deal from in the past. I honestly could care less about your opinion as many of your posts are wrong (e.g. test injected with a slin pin will not be absorbed) and you've shown that you are not credible. Kinda ironic that you threw out the meathead label at Tate, yet you exhibit many of the classic traits of someone that most would classify as a "meathead."

[VS91588]

Dude I injected Test with a short needle and I got a bump for like a week. I would never try to use a slin pin.. Obviously the oil is going to be inside you but I would never inject with that short of a needle... And I would have to say if we look at that forum post majority agreed with me when it comes to size

[kingk0ng]

So I started doing 21s again recently and for couple weeks thought i was getting great growth. But recently I'm starting to doubt my renewed love them. I feel like I'm just kinda spinning my wheels and I need to go back to my traditional heavey straight bar curls in the 6-12 range. My current bicep routine goes

DB curl 3 x 10
Hammer DB 3 x 10
21s ez bar 3 sets

21's are effective mainly because of the TUT (time under tension). You can increase overload through increased TUT (tempo change), increase in intensity, volume, decrease in the rest between sets. 21's allow you to focus more on the TUT, which can be a great tool for hypertrophy enhancement but at the same time will give you a huge pump. I like to use them as a tool, but never a staple.

[Rodja]

Dude I injected Test with a short needle and I got a bump for like a week. I would never try to use a slin pin.. Obviously the oil is going to be inside you but I would never inject with that short of a needle... And I would have to say if we look at that forum post majority agreed with me when it comes to size

SubQ injections are used by many HRT doctors and has peer-reviewed data to support its use. I'd say that carries a bit more weight than the average forum "bro" and you have many people, such as yourself, that follow what has been repeated as gospel without any real reasoning behind it.

[kingk0ng]

SubQ injections are used by many HRT doctors and has peer-reviewed data to support its use. I'd say that carries a bit more weight than the average forum "bro" and you have many people, such as yourself, that follow what has been repeated as gospel without any real reasoning behind it.

I've been reading a little bit on this back and forth and I was a little confused until I saw his avatar, if he's from that Animal Pak forum, which is probably where he got his avatar from, there's no use in even arguing with him. They all think a pump should be the prime focus of everyones training and still think that "high reps tone".

[kingk0ng]

lol who would argue with Dave Tate? Do you even know who he is? He's one of, if not the smartest exercise guru on the planet.