I need more arm mass!

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    I need more arm mass!


    Im 19 years old, 185lbs, 5'7, 12bf%
    I have over all good mass. I'm short and thick with a good chest, back and legs. My arms aren't small but they aren't as proportioned to the rest of my body. Any exercises or advice?

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    Heavy straight bar curls, close grip bench, and dips. Arnold was a big believer in cheat curls but be careful with them.

    I have also found that super setting biceps and triceps really works well for me...incredible pump!

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    I've always believed in good form and slow concentrated reps and it's been working great with everything but my arms. What other bicep exercises are good for mass cause my tris are the more dominant
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    Quote Originally Posted by bobbymac
    Heavy straight bar curls, close grip bench, and dips. Arnold was a big believer in cheat curls but be careful with them.

    I have also found that super setting biceps and triceps really works well for me...incredible pump!

    Sent from my DROID RAZR using Tapatalk 2
    I second super sets!
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    Kill them bro. Change ur routine split. Make an arms day with a day or two gap from chest and back. Do compounds on chest and back then on arms day go ballistic. DB curl, reverse grip straight bar, hammercurls. Seated curls with ur arms raising to ur side.

    Tri's also make up a huge part. Distroy them.

    Don't know what level ur on. But try 4 weeks 70% of ur Max for 8-12 reps. Raise the weight every week.
    Then do 3 weeks heavy as fuk. 6-8 reps 4-5 sets.
    Take a week off and start over.

    I think that should help
    Good luck, any one else have suggestions.

    And a good pump/NO pruduct. Ur skin will burst!
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    Quote Originally Posted by murk01
    Kill them bro. Change ur routine split. Make an arms day with a day or two gap from chest and back. Do compounds on chest and back then on arms day go ballistic. DB curl, reverse grip straight bar, hammercurls. Seated curls with ur arms raising to ur side.

    Tri's also make up a huge part. Distroy them.

    Don't know what level ur on. But try 4 weeks 70% of ur Max for 8-12 reps. Raise the weight every week.
    Then do 3 weeks heavy as fuk. 6-8 reps 4-5 sets.
    Take a week off and start over.

    I think that should help
    Good luck, any one else have suggestions.
    Reverse barbell curls are the sht, definitely fit those in to your routine OP.
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    I broke through a plateau with my triceps by simply adding 4 sets of 20 diamond pushups to the end of my chest/tri day workout. By the end I'm doin cobras instead of pushups and can't use my arms for the rest of the day but the pump is so great my wife says it looks like aliens are gonna rip through.
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    Quote Originally Posted by joshbking View Post
    I've always believed in good form and slow concentrated reps and it's been working great with everything but my arms. What other bicep exercises are good for mass cause my tris are the more dominant
    Of course your triceps are bigger then your biceps, they make up the majority of muscle mass of the upper arm. In fact, the most powerful flexor is not your bicep, it's your brachialis muscle located deep to the biceps. I find that supersets and monster sets are great for arms. The key things are fatigue and changing things up due to the stress-strain-recovery-adaptation cycle.
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    Supersetting and drop sets will not only force blood into your muscles but should also release growth factors that will help add mass and thickness.
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    im a big believer in the close grip/ dips and weighted pushups, but as mentioned above, just change it up, and keeps the reps high for mass of course
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    Yep. Change routines every couple of months....
    Here a nother question. What can you do to target the outside of the biceps. I know there are 3 muscles that make up the biceps. I would like more definition and bulk on the outside.
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    Quote Originally Posted by joshbking View Post
    Any exercises or advice?
    get stronger. if you notice really strong guys have big.... well, everything. bench hard and heavy, and supplement with volume for traps, lats and triceps. deadlift hard and heavy and supplement with volume for biceps. overhead press and supplement with volume for core and triceps.
    you can call me "ozzie" for short.
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    Quote Originally Posted by murk01 View Post
    Yep. Change routines every couple of months....
    Here a nother question. What can you do to target the outside of the biceps. I know there are 3 muscles that make up the biceps. I would like more definition and bulk on the outside.
    Not quite, there are two different heads (origins) to the bicep muscle. What I think you're referring to is three main muscles for flexion, such as the bicep, brachialis, and coracobrachialis? Changing grip position or amount of forearm supination can affect these, for example hammer curls will focus primarily on the brachialis muscle. I think that is what you're asking?
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    Quote Originally Posted by kingjameskjf

    Not quite, there are two different heads (origins) to the bicep muscle. What I think you're referring to is three main muscles for flexion, such as the bicep, brachialis, and coracobrachialis? Changing grip position or amount of forearm supination can affect these, for example hammer curls will focus primarily on the brachialis muscle. I think that is what you're asking?
    Do you know any links to articles or studies about that? The effect of different grips and angles is somethin I've been lookin into a lot lately. Since my equipment is limited I'm tryin to get the most out of what I have by utilizing different positions.
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    Quote Originally Posted by bomcgraw View Post
    Do you know any links to articles or studies about that? The effect of different grips and angles is somethin I've been lookin into a lot lately. Since my equipment is limited I'm tryin to get the most out of what I have by utilizing different positions.
    http://www.t-nation.com/free_online_...ceps_exercises
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    Quote Originally Posted by bomcgraw View Post
    Do you know any links to articles or studies about that? The effect of different grips and angles is somethin I've been lookin into a lot lately. Since my equipment is limited I'm tryin to get the most out of what I have by utilizing different positions.
    Nope, but haven't looked. Not due to lack of caring but just because strength and conditioning is the emphasis of my major so it's been covered a few times. I really hope I'm not coming off conceited, I'm not trying to be a tool, just sharing what I've learned in conjunction with my own training. For instance, we talked about this in my Exercise Physiology class as well as in Biomechanics. If you want I could try to find the specific passages in the text books and I can give you that reference if it would help?
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    Quote Originally Posted by bomcgraw View Post
    Do you know any links to articles or studies about that? The effect of different grips and angles is somethin I've been lookin into a lot lately. Since my equipment is limited I'm tryin to get the most out of what I have by utilizing different positions.
    musculographics . com /pdf/variation.pdf

    good read on what your looking for

    add in nessasary http: // and www as lack of posts wont allow me to post full links
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    Cool article. Looks like I'm covering many bases just doing rack pulls, lol. Almost better than chinups for lats, who woulda known (and 405 is a warmup set for me so I imagine I get even more out of them).
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    this question always seems to get an arguemnt started about whether you can isolate portions of a muscle with the same insertion point, like the age old argument about the upper/lower chest. I however think that you can recruit more fibers in the long head of the biceps (outer head) using a close grip on barbell curls. it always seems to put more stress on my outer bicep. add those into your routine along with incline db curls, concentration curls, preacher curls, and hammer curls...o and to reiterate whats been said already dropsets and supersets
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    Quote Originally Posted by kingjameskjf

    Nope, but haven't looked. Not due to lack of caring but just because strength and conditioning is the emphasis of my major so it's been covered a few times. I really hope I'm not coming off conceited, I'm not trying to be a tool, just sharing what I've learned in conjunction with my own training. For instance, we talked about this in my Exercise Physiology class as well as in Biomechanics. If you want I could try to find the specific passages in the text books and I can give you that reference if it would help?
    I hear ya. I have a couple Exercise Physiology and Human Anatomy textbooks downloaded on my computer. I can look myself. Thanks tho.
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    Quote Originally Posted by MattyMac View Post
    this question always seems to get an arguemnt started about whether you can isolate portions of a muscle with the same insertion point, like the age old argument about the upper/lower chest. I however think that you can recruit more fibers in the long head of the biceps (outer head) using a close grip on barbell curls. it always seems to put more stress on my outer bicep. add those into your routine along with incline db curls, concentration curls, preacher curls, and hammer curls...o and to reiterate whats been said already dropsets and supersets
    Isolate, no, but you can emphasize (to an extent).
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    I've just started drop sets and they r the bomb my friend. Gains had stopped so started drop sets and now getting huge gains. Very painful but worth it
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    I'll try the drop sets. Do you work you way up and then come down like 6 sets total? And should I be doing heavy with low reps or high reps lighter weight
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rodja

    Isolate, no, but you can emphasize (to an extent).
    Agreed
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    Quote Originally Posted by bobbymac View Post
    Heavy straight bar curls, close grip bench, and dips. Arnold was a big believer in cheat curls but be careful with them.

    I have also found that super setting biceps and triceps really works well for me...incredible pump!

    Sent from my DROID RAZR using Tapatalk 2
    I am also a big believer in cheat curls, I don't think there is any better exercise for bicep mass. The key is to not cheat until you have to -- i.e., above 5 reps. If you're cheating from the first rep, it's too much weight. Concentration curls on the incline bench are another good one.
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    Gotta agree with supersets. This one swole ass dude at my gym said he does legs and biceps on the same day... because the leg workout releases so much testosterone that it gives your arms an insane pump. I think he does a set of legs then immediately does curls. Anyone else have experience with this workout?
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    Quote Originally Posted by kingjameskjf

    Not quite, there are two different heads (origins) to the bicep muscle. What I think you're referring to is three main muscles for flexion, such as the bicep, brachialis, and coracobrachialis? Changing grip position or amount of forearm supination can affect these, for example hammer curls will focus primarily on the brachialis muscle. I think that is what you're asking?
    Thanks for clearing that up
    I will put more focus on hammers
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    Quote Originally Posted by pistol345 View Post
    Gotta agree with supersets. This one swole ass dude at my gym said he does legs and biceps on the same day... because the leg workout releases so much testosterone that it gives your arms an insane pump. I think he does a set of legs then immediately does curls. Anyone else have experience with this workout?
    Would not recommend this under any circumstances. If your doing legs, your doing legs, you should not have enough energy to do anything but legs other wise your not training to your full potential. By doing this your losing out on the necessary stimulation of these very large muscle groups (quads, hams, glutes, etc.). You are also cutting down on your ability, due to overall fatigue, to train your biceps to their max potential. Supersets generally refer to the sequencing of agonist or antagonist focused exercise, legs and biceps are completely different and have no agonist or antagonist action. Also, the same muscle group can be trained from a different angle, in a superset. For example, cambered bar skull crushers and rope pushdowns done in sequence.

    "Testosterone concentrations have been shown to increase AFTER an acute bout of resistance or endurance exercise.
    In response to prolonged endurance exercise (e.g., a marathon), testosterone levels will typically decline. Others have reported no change in testosterone after resistance exercise (Tremblay, Copeland & Van Helder, 2003)."

    Generally testosterone increases will not occur during a bout of exercise but will be observed once the exercised has ceased. In fact an increase in the production of cortisol a catabolic hormone, will be observed during the exercise bout in response to the training especially during a day as stressful on the body as legs. The post anaerobic exercise spike in testosterone will come as the body begins its repair (anabolism/protein synthesis) on whatever muscle group was trained.

    Tremblay, M., Copeland, J., & Van Helder, W. (2003). Effect of training status and exercise mode on endogenous steriod hormones in men. Journal of Applied Physiology, Retrieved from ww w . jappl.or g/ content /96/2/531.full

    minus spaces in link to reference
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    Quote Originally Posted by NYiron View Post
    Would not recommend this under any circumstances. If your doing legs, your doing legs, you should not have enough energy to do anything but legs other wise your not training to your full potential. By doing this your losing out on the necessary stimulation of these very large muscle groups (quads, hams, glutes, etc.). You are also cutting down on your ability, due to overall fatigue, to train your biceps to their max potential. Supersets generally refer to the sequencing of agonist or antagonist focused exercise, legs and biceps are completely different and have no agonist or antagonist action. Also, the same muscle group can be trained from a different angle, in a superset. For example, cambered bar skull crushers and rope pushdowns done in sequence.

    "Testosterone concentrations have been shown to increase AFTER an acute bout of resistance or endurance exercise.
    In response to prolonged endurance exercise (e.g., a marathon), testosterone levels will typically decline. Others have reported no change in testosterone after resistance exercise (Tremblay, Copeland & Van Helder, 2003)."

    Generally testosterone increases will not occur during a bout of exercise but will be observed once the exercised has ceased. In fact an increase in the production of cortisol a catabolic hormone, will be observed during the exercise bout in response to the training especially during a day as stressful on the body as legs. The post anaerobic exercise spike in testosterone will come as the body begins its repair (anabolism/protein synthesis) on whatever muscle group was trained.

    Tremblay, M., Copeland, J., & Van Helder, W. (2003). Effect of training status and exercise mode on endogenous steriod hormones in men. Journal of Applied Physiology, Retrieved from ww w . jappl.or g/ content /96/2/531.full

    minus spaces in link to reference
    Good post. I like doing supersets, compounds sets, and drop sets for certain body parts but I wouldn't do legs and arms together on the same day unless it was a full body routine. My personal preference is a split routine.
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    Quote Originally Posted by joshbking View Post
    I'll try the drop sets. Do you work you way up and then come down like 6 sets total? And should I be doing heavy with low reps or high reps lighter weight
    No bro I do a warm up first and then do 3 sets of heavy. For instance my first set I have 5 tens on each side of a 25 pound preacher bar. 125 pounds I can do about 3 reps and then drop. Its best when having a partner to help u gett thosse u can't lol feel the burn. In all my first set looks like 3,4,8,and 10. Very crusial to having big gains is a spotter to help gradualy lift those you couldn't do alone. Good luck. Hey man everyone else has great advice too and I'm. No pro but you will c results
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    Quote Originally Posted by NYiron View Post
    Would not recommend this under any circumstances.

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    have you ever heard of charles poliquin? he is a big promoter of PHA style workouts which are just what you are arguing against. i first saw that type of workout referenced in a book from the 60's. so its nothing new and has been shown to work rather well. it does not minimize results at all. you just have to know how to program with it. the big failure people do when trying it to use split training methodologies. that will not work at all.
    you can call me "ozzie" for short.
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    I have not heard of him, but i do believe any workout program when done correctly with proper scientific backing will yield desired results. If possible could you pm me with a link or article/book name, etc. so i could read up on PHA style workouts. Thank you for raising this point as i am always looking to broaden my horizons and take in more information a big reason i enjoy sourcing my information is due to that fact while reading studies i often stumble upon new information.

    My response was directed particularly at the fact that his post and proposed goal were indicative of a split training. He also referenced a "swole dude" and doing legs followed by curls I couldnt help but have the first image come to mind of a guy doing quarter squats with way too much weight racking the weight and then curling in the squat rack. Also, the rational behind why this "swole dude" paired the two muscle groups together was due to the super-compensation effect, as a result of intense anaerobic training, on testosterone while engaged in exercise is false.
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    Quote Originally Posted by NYiron
    I have not heard of him, but i do believe any workout program when done correctly with proper scientific backing will yield desired results. If possible could you pm me with a link or article/book name, etc. so i could read up on PHA style workouts. Thank you for raising this point as i am always looking to broaden my horizons and take in more information a big reason i enjoy sourcing my information is due to that fact while reading studies i often stumble upon new information.

    My response was directed particularly at the fact that his post and proposed goal were indicative of a split training. He also referenced a "swole dude" and doing legs followed by curls I couldnt help but have the first image come to mind of a guy doing quarter squats with way too much weight racking the weight and then curling in the squat rack. Also, the rational behind why this "swole dude" paired the two muscle groups together was due to the super-compensation effect, as a result of intense anaerobic training, on testosterone while engaged in exercise is false.
    I read an article in one of my magazines (I'm tryin to find which one now) that said workouts like that could work. Something about how the heavy compound leg exercises causes a massive release of hormones and following with an isolation exercise to a single muscle group, such as biceps or triceps, can produce gains. I don't really know much about it tho, that's just what I read. I'm tryin to find the article to reference.
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    The acute hormonal responses from resistance training won't be large enough to cause noticable growth like exogenous hormones would. I believe there was an article on this site outlining this recently, actually
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    Okay... I'm far from being a fitness expert, but this guy I'm talking about works at my gym. He has a degree in sports training and nutrition or whatever. And more importantly, he works for the gym's owner, former Mr. Olympia contestant Johnny Stewart. Johnny is personally training this guy to compete in a local body building comp, and that's the workout he recommended. The dude said he gained an inch on his arms in 2 weeks.
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    Quote Originally Posted by pistol345
    Okay... I'm far from being a fitness expert, but this guy I'm talking about works at my gym. He has a degree in sports training and nutrition or whatever. And more importantly, he works for the gym's owner, former Mr. Olympia contestant Johnny Stewart. Johnny is personally training this guy to compete in a local body building comp, and that's the workout he recommended. The dude said he gained an inch on his arms in 2 weeks.
    Maybe. But probably from his diet not just his work out. And also what did he start at. He will not be able to add an inch every two weeks. Only initial inch. If u have been training for a while his program may not help unless its radicaly different from urs.
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    Quote Originally Posted by NYiron View Post
    I have not heard of him, but i do believe any workout program when done correctly with proper scientific backing will yield desired results. If possible could you pm me with a link or article/book name, etc. so i could read up on PHA style workouts. Thank you for raising this point as i am always looking to broaden my horizons and take in more information a big reason i enjoy sourcing my information is due to that fact while reading studies i often stumble upon new information.
    here are some links:
    http://www.charlespoliquin.com/
    http://journals.lww.com/nsca-scj/Citation/1997/06000/Peripheral_Heart_Action_Traini ng.4.aspx
    http://www.amazon.com/Manly-Weight-Loss-Carrot-Stick-Weight-Loss/dp/0966275217/ref=sr_1_10?s=books&ie=UTF8&qi d=1340890056&sr=1-10&keywords=charles+poliquin

    the above link was the second book i ever found referencing PHA. i first read about it in some reprints of bruce lee's workouts. go figure.

    at first all i found was PHA workouts to shed fat. i still read charles's blog and some articles i run across from him and he really seems to push it even for strength. the programs are built differently for fat loss and strength gain, subtle but different.

    i have seen some of my training partners that train for strongman doing some PHA stuff without even knowing it. like when they are training for medleys for a specific event they will do an upper body based movement with a lower body based movement. that is really the key to doing PHA, to train 2-4 body parts that are as far away as possible.

    i do believe even when using it for strength that there can be a great GPP benefit involved. so it would not be good for a peaking program.
    you can call me "ozzie" for short.
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    Quote Originally Posted by pistol345 View Post
    Okay... I'm far from being a fitness expert, but this guy I'm talking about works at my gym. He has a degree in sports training and nutrition or whatever. And more importantly, he works for the gym's owner, former Mr. Olympia contestant Johnny Stewart. Johnny is personally training this guy to compete in a local body building comp, and that's the workout he recommended. The dude said he gained an inch on his arms in 2 weeks.
    This may be wholly possible, under a specific given controlled exogenous circumstance, but the rational, he or they are using, for why this would occur just is not there. I am too a bodybuilder and i would never dream of sacrificing even the smallest amount of energy on leg day to do anything other then legs. To each's own but to me it just makes no sense. Immediately after a set of a high intensity anaerobic exercise the body has a list of things it has to take care of some even before it deals with the elevated heart rate. First and always first is the immediate replenishment of creatine phosphate to fuel the phosphagen system. Then the body needs to go on and deal will the occlusion of blood vessels and the build up of metabolic waste products within the plasma and intra/extra cellular fluids. It needs to stabilize heart rate utilizing a variety of hormonal factors also it needs to stabilize breathing rates and due to the anaerobic nature of the exercise something called EPOC will occur. EPOC is excess post-excercise oxygen consumption which is an increased vo2 immediately following exercise and can be prolonged until o2 saturations return to normal. These are among a few priorities post exercise while the body readies itself for the next set/exercise to begin. At our core we are primal and the body deals with any external stress in the same manner whether it be a person chasing you with a knife or a heavy set of squats there are a few things that will happen in order to deal with the stress and ensure survival. Anabolism with regards to an acute stressor is low as a survival priority. While the HPGA and super-compensation stimulation/reaction to high intensity anaerobic exercise these individuals speak of does exist it primarily will not occur in the time frame which they are telling you it does, between sets of legs and arms. It has also been proven that the super-compenstation effect is rather difficult to elicit and requires specific intensities.

    "There appears to be a relative intensity and volume threshold (total work performed; see section 3.1.3 below) that must be reached in order to induce a testosterone response. Comparing protocols with the same volume but different loads (4 sets of 6 repetitions at 52.5% of

    lRM vs 3 sets of 6 repetitions at 40% of lRM during concentric actions and 100% of 1 RM dur- ing eccentric actions) for the bench press and squat exercises. Yarrow et al.'^^ found that neither pro- tocol produced an increase in testosterone. The intensity used in that study, with the exception of the eccentric action, was very low and this likely explains the lack of a testosterone response. Kraemer et al.'^'' examined the effect of altering the intensity while keeping total work constant and found that when intensity was reduced, the testos- terone response was attenuated. When the number of repetitions is kept constant, higher intensity and thus higher volume induces a greater testosterone response. Raastad et al.') showed that 3 sets of 6 repetitions for three lower-body exercises at 100% of 6RM but not at 70-76% of 6RM induced a signif- icant increase in testosterone. Similarly, 5 sets of 10 repetitions with lORM has been found to induce a significant testosterone increase; whereas, 5 sets of 10 repetitions with either 70% or 40% of lORM did not affect testosterone concentrations (Vingren, Kraemer, Ratamess, Anderson, Volek & Maresh, 2010)."

    For these reasons the acute response reaction will generally occur, if at all, after exercise has ceased for a given period of time and will have no bearing on the dramatically increased muscle growth of a smaller muscle group when paired with a larger group in split style training. In fact the acute increase is short lived and will generally drop off to baseline measures or lower rather quickly over the span of the recovery. My personal opinion would be to no longer listen to either of these individuals unless they can provide you with proper scientific evidence for their rational. For the most part there are generally no secrets to growing other then to train hard, overload your muscles, ensure full ROM on every exercise, develop solid "mind muscle connection", follow training with perfect nutrition and repeat. Consistency is the secret.

    Vingren, J., Kraemer, W., Ratamess, N., Anderson, J., Volek, J., & Maresh, C. (2010). Testosterone physiology in resistance exercise and training. Retrieved from http : // web.ebscohost.com.ezproxy.hofs tra.e du/ehost/pdfviewer/pdfviewer?sid =b8e88e49-2561-4b6f-9fbb-5f0f7d007cc1@sessionmgr104&vid =4&hid=111

    remove spaces for reference
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    Its possible
    If ur carb'd up and with a gym swell. But its temporary . After u lose the work out pump
    GAME ON! MOVAH FUKAZ!
    http://anabolicminds.com/forum/supplement-reviews-logs/231867-man-sports-gameday.html#post4047619
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    Quote Originally Posted by asooneyeonig View Post
    here are some links:
    the above link was the second book i ever found referencing PHA. i first read about it in some reprints of bruce lee's workouts. go figure.

    at first all i found was PHA workouts to shed fat. i still read charles's blog and some articles i run across from him and he really seems to push it even for strength. the programs are built differently for fat loss and strength gain, subtle but different.

    i have seen some of my training partners that train for strongman doing some PHA stuff without even knowing it. like when they are training for medleys for a specific event they will do an upper body based movement with a lower body based movement. that is really the key to doing PHA, to train 2-4 body parts that are as far away as possible.

    i do believe even when using it for strength that there can be a great GPP benefit involved. so it would not be good for a peaking program.
    Thank you i appreciate it ill do some reading, i could not get the second link to load though, and maybe some point along the line we could have a conversation on it.
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