New Split is dumb and over training?

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    New Split is dumb and over training?


    Mon: Chest/Tri
    Tue: Cardio
    Wed: Back/Bi's
    Thrs: Legs/Calves
    Fri: Shoulders/Chest
    Sat: Cardio
    Sun: Back and Bi's

    This is the split, im considering the cardio days rest days cuse i do cardio more for fun

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    looking for size and strength
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    So I presume you want bigger Bi's and a bigger back?
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    Too... Much
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    Quote Originally Posted by rricketts View Post
    Too... Much
    Let alone that lol its the usual Curl Bro scheme for "Big Bi's" hehe , im surprised not to see a second chest day , dear OP learn from basic programs first like Starting Strength , Meat and Potatoes , 5x5 Then when you lean out a bit , have good strength , and have some years here , then we talk about splits , for now , focus on whole body workouts !
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    dude, i see ur super swole urself any inside on your split so i can make sum major gains?
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    Quote Originally Posted by Borispili View Post
    dude, i see ur super swole urself any inside on your split so i can make sum major gains?
    I don't do a split thank you very much , I do Wendler 5/3/1 with Dave Tate's Periodization bible for assistance work lifting 4 days a week with 3 days of cardio/rest days...Oh and my avatar pic is old , I was 125.6 lbs back then lol...I'm 13lbs up and lazy to set up a new one xD
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    Do SS for a while, at least 2-3 resets. Then do A 5x5 of some sort. Eat a lot of food, don't be afraid of fat if your trying to get bigger, especially if your young and on the small side. Get good sleep. 3 days lifting (4 max, but I would stick with 3. Most of the novice routines are prgrammed for 3 anyhow) with 2 days cardio is plenty of training if your pushing yourself in the gym.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Borispili View Post
    dude, i see ur super swole urself any inside on your split so i can make sum major gains?
    Easy tiger.... he is giving you SOLID advice... your routine is garbage, so its clear you NEED his help. A Thank you is on order.
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    Quote Originally Posted by boogyman View Post
    Do SS for a while, at least 2-3 resets. Then do A 5x5 of some sort. Eat a lot of food, don't be afraid of fat if your trying to get bigger, especially if your young and on the small side. Get good sleep. 3 days lifting (4 max, but I would stick with 3. Most of the novice routines are prgrammed for 3 anyhow) with 2 days cardio is plenty of training if your pushing yourself in the gym.
    "But but but!! I don't see curling in all that!! We gotta have big biceps for the ladies!! And those things include things that can make me have a big waist!! Squats are bad for knees!! Deadlifts!!!!??? OMG I'm gonna herniate myself! ARNOLD SAYS I HAVE TO CURL!" Hahahaha...it just crossed my mind what lurker curl bros would think...I know plenty of kids that think that way xD they are a dime a dozen i tell yah
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    dude chill i'm not an isolation exercise bitch
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    Quote Originally Posted by Borispili View Post
    dude chill i'm not an isolation exercise bitch
    No i didn't say my last post for you , I saw some posts earlier today and last night about that , but if you are not that...then look into a real training program, I have yet to see someone not growing from SS or 5x5...Seriously I have NOT seen one single dude who did not improve strength and size with those programs and a solid diet...and perhaps thats where the problem lies , training is just a small % , you need a solid diet to make progress bro , no shortcuts or alternatives for that :3
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    Quote Originally Posted by Celorza View Post
    "But but but!! I don't see curling in all that!! We gotta have big biceps for the ladies!! And those things include things that can make me have a big waist!! Squats are bad for knees!! Deadlifts!!!!??? OMG I'm gonna herniate myself! ARNOLD SAYS I HAVE TO CURL!" Hahahaha...it just crossed my mind what lurker curl bros would think...I know plenty of kids that think that way xD they are a dime a dozen i tell yah
    I was that way when I was a kid. I did not even know what SS was. I went to a golds gym with real bodybuilders, steriods were rampant. One guy was in *** commercials, and ther was a centerfold in Playgirl lol. I used to do the same routines as them, and wasted a ton of time on dropsets, supersets, bicep curls. All the while I never really got any stronger,or bigger. I wish I knew then what I know now, this was before everyone had the internet and information was not so easy to find.

    Once I became an adult, and did lots of reading and research, I started training much better. Strength came on quickly, and it was real world strength. I can now pick things up most people can't. I can push people around that are considerably larger than I am.
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    so you recommend the starting strength program
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    Quote Originally Posted by boogyman View Post
    I was that way when I was a kid. I did not even know what SS was. I went to a golds gym with real bodybuilders, steriods were rampant. One guy was in *** commercials, and ther was a centerfold in Playgirl lol. I used to do the same routines as them, and wasted a ton of time on dropsets, supersets, bicep curls. All the while I never really got any stronger,or bigger. I wish I knew then what I know now, this was before everyone had the internet and information was not so easy to find.

    Once I became an adult, and did lots of reading and research, I started training much better. Strength came on quickly, and it was real world strength. I can now pick things up most people can't. I can push people around that are considerably larger than I am.
    Thats how it is hehe , people think we are meat heads and stupid folk because we focus on perfecting our bodies, but theres a buttload of science and research behind it. One that if you do not do and comprehend you will never get that physique you desire hehe. I dare say good amateur bodybuilders have a better understanding of their body chemistry and nutrition than the vast majority of the population of the world , and we should ALL be aware of our bodies , it's after all, our most valuable possession ;p
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    Quote Originally Posted by Borispili View Post
    so you recommend the starting strength program
    Yup , milk it out a bit so you learn the basics , nuts and bolts of bodybuilding and compounds , then you jump into 5x5 ;D! , Once you are more adept there are many venues , but before all this...TUNE IN YOUR DIET!...no program is worth SH*T if you do not have a perfect diet to meet your goals , which by your stats , should be cut out a bit , I'm your size and I used to be 180lbs at 30% lazy body fat , cut out to 125.6lbs in no time and got to 7% bf , good sixpack and all , but lacked size mass and strenght , hence I'm bulking up now :3
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    Quote Originally Posted by Borispili View Post
    so you recommend the starting strength program
    I do for sure. Start about 30lbs below your 5 rep max for squats, and maybe 20 below for everything else. Add 5lbs each time you do each workout. Since you squat 3 times a week, this means the end of your second week you will hit your max. Don't worry, if sleep and diet are good, you should blow right past it (assuming you don't squat 350lbs already lol). Milk this program for all its worth, there is really no reason most young, healthy and dedicated people should not get at least a 300lb squat and deadlift, and 200lb or more bench from SS.
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    ight im bulking now to bro and def not 30% bf
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    Quote Originally Posted by boogyman View Post
    I do for sure. Start about 30lbs below your 5 rep max for squats, and maybe 20 below for everything else. Add 5lbs each time you do each workout. Since you squat 3 times a week, this means the end of your second week you will hit your max. Don't worry, if sleep and diet are good, you should blow right past it (assuming you don't squat 350lbs already lol). Milk this program for all its worth, there is really no reason most young, healthy and dedicated people should not get at least a 300lb squat and deadlift, and 200lb or more bench from SS.
    Lol...I can vouch for that deadlift and for PARALLEL squat...but DEEP olympic squat and proper BP...damn those are tough for many of us ;D! But I do love my deadlifts hehe. I recently started training with record-holding powerlifters that either use 5/3/1 or still 5x5 variations...damn those f*ckers pointed me out that I had not the best squat form and I polished it >> well yeah weight went down a bit , but with proper form now , it should skyrocket in some months with the calories im eating hehe.
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    I do a below parellel (not quite ATG, but pretty close) squat. A little wider that shoulder width, I believe its sometimes refered to as the "athletic squat?". Anyhow, I did SS for the first time at the age of 30 and got to about 310lbs or so, and I was not very big, maybe 170lbs. Even now at 35, revisiting weights and SS my squat is up to 235lbs. Everyone is different. And Celorza, I bet if you started doing squats with better form and deeper from the get go (notice I say better and not perfect form, I personally believe perfect form for the average non coached, non athlete is not likely to happen. But you can get very close and thats probably good enough for the majority of people), your squat would be much better now and you would be a lot stronger. It seems to be from watching others that fixing the squat and starting over is harder for some reason. I am lucky in that I seem to have very good form from the get go and I don't loss it too much as the weights get heavier. I even have trainers ask me if there clients can watch me squat for a few sets lol.
    Last edited by boogyman; 06-10-2012 at 11:18 AM. Reason: changed wording
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    Quote Originally Posted by boogyman View Post
    I do a below parellel (not quite ATG, but pretty close) squat. A little wider that shoulder width, I believe its sometimes refered to as the "athletic squat?". Anyhow, I did SS for the first time at the age of 30 and got to about 310lbs or so, and I was not very big, maybe 170lbs. Even now at 35, revisiting weights and SS I am up to 235lbs. Everyone is different. And Celorza, I bet if you started doing squats with better form and deeper from the get go (notice I say better and not perfect form, I personally believe perfect form for the average non coached, non athlete is not likely to happen. But you can get very close and thats probably good enough for the majority of people), your squat would be much better now and you would be a lot stronger. It seems to be from watching others that fixing the squat and starting over is harder for some reason. I am lucky in that I seem to have very good form from the get go and I don't loss it too much as the weights get heavier. I even have trainers ask me if there clients can watch me squat for a few sets lol.
    Yeah haha i hope it WILL get stronger , I am sure of it since now my hammies/glutes and hip abductors feel a new kind of sore that they had not experienced from squats , my main problem is that I had not being going below parallel because I was doing toes OUT and WIDER than shoulder width , which would throw in my knees a bit , good thing they coached me up and their trainer helped too without charge haha , they have taken a like of me xD I'm sorta their pet now haha since they say my deadlift lift up from 185 to 235lbs in like 2-3 weeks they kinda respected me for being a tike of 125.6 getting close to my 2x body weight at the time hehehe.
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    Those are good numbers for your weight. Its nice to have people around you who know what your doing. I wish I had powerlifters around me when I was younger lol. My present gym has a bunch of "bros" in it, but at least I know what I am doing now.
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    Quote Originally Posted by boogyman View Post
    Those are good numbers for your weight. Its nice to have people around you who know what your doing. I wish I had powerlifters around me when I was younger lol. My present gym has a bunch of "bros" in it, but at least I know what I am doing now.
    Lol this guys are the best haha , they y are always in the only 2 squat racks we got , but no one else uses them...sad...since its a college gym most of what we got are curl bros and juicy frat boys haha when they are on cycle they get ****y and throw weights around , but they do such lousy PCTs that then they just lose everything haha , well their cycles are ridiculous too , they'll do high dosed SD and quit it at week 2 for sides , or standalone dianabol xD oh god its so funny...I seriously think I'm lucky this guys took me in haha , they are not annoying or mean , and they are not conceited , pretty chill and nice , but they always go do their work and nothing else, so the fact I can jump in with them and get good advice is perfct for me , all I do is the same , walk in , workout , walk out! haha
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    wait wht did u say u say u squat? and DL 235 bro i do shoulder shrugs wit tht weight
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    well I believe your the guy who we convinced to do a low dose superdrol cycle so why don't you train 4-5 days a week.

    If I need to bring a muscle group up I'll give it more preference on cycle.
    It looks like your trying to bring up your back and bi's.

    So try

    Chest+Shoulders
    Back+Biceps+Traps (with deadlifts)
    OFF
    Legs+Calves
    Back+Biceps+Traps(no deadlifts)
    OFF

    something like that could work well if you train hard enough.You about to go on cycle makes all the difference man.
    a 5/3/1 on Superdrol ,if your joints begin to hurt,could lead to an injury.Focusing on getting stronger on cycle is a great goal but on my first cycle I paid the price and messed my knee up squatting.Haven't squatted since.

    Do a split that will focus on the areas you need to bring up.Doing isolation exercises definately works on cycle.If you stick to compounds and then move to isloations you'll grow and bring the muscle up the way you want them to look.
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    Well if the superdrol will helpmebringg up lagging pats that much, unfortunately my lagging parts are the main areas;back, bi, chest. I can squat 315 10 reps so I'm not so worried about leg strength and size, did u try taking any sumps for ur joints cause my knee joints hurt sometimes when I walk, currently I'm taking glucosamine hcl. Thanks!!
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    Quote Originally Posted by Borispili View Post
    wait wht did u say u say u squat? and DL 235 bro i do shoulder shrugs wit tht weight
    250 this morning now ;D! oh yeah I am lighter and leaner than you bro haha , and for shrugs , when I do shrugs like once in a million years I do 3 plates , shoulders are better for me than lower body stength
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    Quote Originally Posted by Celorza View Post
    250 this morning now ;D! oh yeah I am lighter and leaner than you bro haha , and for shrugs , when I do shrugs like once in a million years I do 3 plates , shoulders are better for me than lower body stength
    I have the complete opposite problem,my lower body is like 10 times stronger then my upper body.
    For example I sqaut and dead 405 pounds and leg press 880 pounds(no joke) walk over the bench press and I struggle to do 220
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    Whenever my lower body is engaged I suffer Johnny seriously haha, I can do seated military press down to the collarbone with 150lbs , now tell me to stand up and NOT jerk and use mere shoulder and core strength as I go all the way down to 105-115lbs range hahaha. And my leg press has been lagging around 400lbs for a while T_T aw well got my whole life to get better at this and more balanced :3
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    Quote Originally Posted by Celorza
    Whenever my lower body is engaged I suffer Johnny seriously haha, I can do seated military press down to the collarbone with 150lbs , now tell me to stand up and NOT jerk and use mere shoulder and core strength as I go all the way down to 105-115lbs range hahaha. And my leg press has been lagging around 400lbs for a while T_T aw well got my whole life to get better at this and more balanced :3
    Meant tonny but my damn phone spells out whatever it wants :/
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    Quote Originally Posted by ToNNNNyT View Post
    I have the complete opposite problem,my lower body is like 10 times stronger then my upper body.
    For example I sqaut and dead 405 pounds and leg press 880 pounds(no joke) walk over the bench press and I struggle to do 220
    Im right where you are.... I deadlift 405+ but struggle to put 220 up 1 time.
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    Quote Originally Posted by ToNNNNyT View Post
    I have the complete opposite problem,my lower body is like 10 times stronger then my upper body.
    For example I sqaut and dead 405 pounds and leg press 880 pounds(no joke) walk over the bench press and I struggle to do 220
    So ToNNNNyT - What's the secret to increasing the lbs on the legs? as I'm more like Celorza, good upper body and poor lower body, as I bench like 330lb x 4/6reps (should be pushing more but no spotter (spotters are important to increase the mass))...secret hint for upper body training IMO pyramid sets totally max out on the peak, so one single rep (purely for strength training and try to increase that every 2/3 weeks (so wot if you fail you tried it and it's all a mindset, so maybe next time)) - so first set 120lb x 12/14 reps, 140lb x 7/10, 150lb x 4/6, then peak with a spotter 1 rep another 5lb either side, then come down to 120lb x 7/10...but do this on a lower weight (just a guide from my chest day) but it's pushing that one rep out that pushes you on to increase the weight each time....I've always trained push movements one day then pull the next too - and I to do complex followed by a compound movement (high reps on the compound, i.e. flyers)....hope there's an idea in there that helps you out - anything you can give for leg advise would be great - thanks
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    Quote Originally Posted by u316245 View Post
    So ToNNNNyT - What's the secret to increasing the lbs on the legs? as I'm more like Celorza, good upper body and poor lower body, as I bench like 330lb x 4/6reps (should be pushing more but no spotter (spotters are important to increase the mass))...secret hint for upper body training IMO pyramid sets totally max out on the peak, so one single rep (purely for strength training and try to increase that every 2/3 weeks (so wot if you fail you tried it and it's all a mindset, so maybe next time)) - so first set 120lb x 12/14 reps, 140lb x 7/10, 150lb x 4/6, then peak with a spotter 1 rep another 5lb either side, then come down to 120lb x 7/10...but do this on a lower weight (just a guide from my chest day) but it's pushing that one rep out that pushes you on to increase the weight each time....I've always trained push movements one day then pull the next too - and I to do complex followed by a compound movement (high reps on the compound, i.e. flyers)....hope there's an idea in there that helps you out - anything you can give for leg advise would be great - thanks
    Train them more intensly.If oyu have ever done 20 rep squats you'll know how much muscle you can put on your legs.It is so tough but it works.The same for leg presses.I work within the 65-85 rep range with about 350lbs and it kills.Actually all of my leg workouts are high rep workouts.I just prefer it that way.Use less weight,more intensly and I get better results.

    Intensity rules.Try it out and see what you think.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Roniboney View Post
    Train them more intensly.If oyu have ever done 20 rep squats you'll know how much muscle you can put on your legs.It is so tough but it works.The same for leg presses.I work within the 65-85 rep range with about 350lbs and it kills.Actually all of my leg workouts are high rep workouts.I just prefer it that way.Use less weight,more intensly and I get better results.

    Intensity rules.Try it out and see what you think.
    Many thanks Roniboney - never tried high reps on my lower body
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    Quote Originally Posted by Borispili View Post
    Mon: Chest/Tri
    Tue: Cardio
    Wed: Back/Bi's
    Thrs: Legs/Calves
    Fri: Shoulders/Chest
    Sat: Cardio
    Sun: Back and Bi's

    This is the split, im considering the cardio days rest days cuse i do cardio more for fun
    First of all, you seem to have a lack of understanding in what overtraining refers to. Overtraining doesn't refer to muscles, but systems of the body. The most highly recognized form of overtraining is CNS fatigue, and deals entirely with the nervous system and I can assure you you are NOT overtraining.

    Secondly, your split doesn't involve training legs, which is your biggest mistake. Squats and deadlifts place the entire kinetic chain as well as the endocrine system under the greatest amount of stress, resulting in more anabolic hormone production that further stimulates overall hypertrophy throughout the entire body.

    If I were you, I'd switch to an upper/lower split.

    Mon: Upper, heavy horizontal, light vertical
    Tues: Lower, dynamic effort lower body
    Thurs: Upper, heavy vertical, light horizontal
    Fri: Lower, maximum effort lower body
    Former Marine, UT-BSN, NSCA-CPT, NASM-CPT, CSCS
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    rricketts's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kingk0ng

    First of all, you seem to have a lack of understanding in what overtraining refers to. Overtraining doesn't refer to muscles, but systems of the body. The most highly recognized form of overtraining is CNS fatigue, and deals entirely with the nervous system and I can assure you you are NOT overtraining.

    Secondly, your split doesn't involve training legs, which is your biggest mistake. Squats and deadlifts place the entire kinetic chain as well as the endocrine system under the greatest amount of stress, resulting in more anabolic hormone production that further stimulates overall hypertrophy throughout the entire body.

    If I were you, I'd switch to an upper/lower split.

    Mon: Upper, heavy horizontal, light vertical
    Tues: Lower, dynamic effort lower body
    Thurs: Upper, heavy vertical, light horizontal
    Fri: Lower, maximum effort lower body
    Very well said!
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    i'm new to this and i saw that SS and 5x5 were recommended for newbies. where can i find a good outline of these programs?
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    Quote Originally Posted by jaj211 View Post
    i'm new to this and i saw that SS and 5x5 were recommended for newbies. where can i find a good outline of these programs?
    depends on what your looking for.Some people,despite getting strong won't see a lot of hypertrophy with SS or stronglifts.
    As long as oyu include the big lifts in your programme and have a strength set or two you can get big and strong and have both.

    Though I know that getting stronger means your gonna usually get a lot bigger and than theres a lot of huge,proportioned powerlifters I believe that if aesthetics are your goal something like a very low volume power-hypertrophy programme would work wonders.
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    Quote Originally Posted by kingk0ng View Post
    First of all, you seem to have a lack of understanding in what overtraining refers to. Overtraining doesn't refer to muscles, but systems of the body. The most highly recognized form of overtraining is CNS fatigue, and deals entirely with the nervous system and I can assure you you are NOT overtraining.

    Secondly, your split doesn't involve training legs, which is your biggest mistake. Squats and deadlifts place the entire kinetic chain as well as the endocrine system under the greatest amount of stress, resulting in more anabolic hormone production that further stimulates overall hypertrophy throughout the entire body.

    If I were you, I'd switch to an upper/lower split.

    Mon: Upper, heavy horizontal, light vertical
    Tues: Lower, dynamic effort lower body
    Thurs: Upper, heavy vertical, light horizontal
    Fri: Lower, maximum effort lower body
    He does legs on thursday...
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