Workout program for size.

[BeBuff]

Im looking for a workout program that is based on adding size.

 

[Celorza]

Got any real experience in working out? How many years I mean , and give us some max's...there are programs specialized for both hypertrophy and strength but you kinda need to know MORE about your body and already have an understanding of how to work out brosef , if not , may I recommend something very customizable like Wendler 5/3/1:

http://www.muscleandstrength.com/workouts/hardcore-look-at-jim-wendlers-5-3-1-powerlifting-system.html

You see it has many schemes and 2 of them for bodybuilding , so you add in the hypertrophy desired , Dave Tate's Periodization Bible and also "The bodybuilding Assistance" scheme , so you can focus on the main lifts (4 big compounds , dead lift , squat , OH press , BP) and get the strength and hormonal release they pose , and then go into assistance exercises (which I recommend to make compound too seriously) to get the hypertrophy desired so that nutrition can rebuild it into bigger muscles. Win-win scenario , put on size , add strength , and look like the bad-ass at the gym ! Looks quite cool to go and dip with 50lbs hanging from you and rep out 10-20 of them ! Or same with pull ups hehe.

Now another program (this one is trickier and requires for you to know a bit more terms and have more experience...a lot mroe I would say) is Layne Norton's Phat Training:
http://www.simplyshredded.com/mega-feature-layne-norton-training-series-full-powerhypertrophy-routine-updated-2011.html

Explains it real nice there , it will have its power and its hypertrophy days , again it is a more advanced program with HIGH volume and good stuff.

If neither are of your taste...well there's always Westside for Skinny Bastards...hm...and yeah stick to those , DoggCrapp is way too much and you really need at least some 3 years of serious training and good strength to go in there...BUT if you have managed to get some decent numbers on the compounds , look up what ELECT Sets mean , or Perfect Rep , and throw it in in any of the programs , good stuff for putting on size and strength bro.

 

[BeBuff]

Thanks, i have been working out for around 9 months, but i really ****ed up my first starting months by eating **** and use a 5 day split, so my stats sucks.

Bench Press: 187 pounds
Squat: 220 pounds
Deadlift: 242
Never really been doing OH Presses

At the moment i aim most for size and hypertrophy, but i really wanna get my strength up too, so i mix beetwen hypertorphy and strengt

 

[Celorza]

Yeah , you need to first take up on 5/3/1 , I mean you already throw those lifts in , so no need for 5x5 or stuff like that , look into the 5/3/1 , you got good upper body strength , but that deadlift is lagging behind a bit bro (and don't worry...most of us struggle with the squat , I used to be able to do 225 and then got told: "YOU ARE NOT GOING BELOW PARALLEL , YOU ARE JUST AT PARALLEL , IT DOESN'T COUNT!" so now it went down a bit haha xD but yeah , 5/3/1 gets yah up FAST! My deadlift (when I started) went up from like 205x1 to like 225x5 in the first 5/3/1 wave ;p try it! good stuff , I actually gotta do 245 monday ! or if I feel like it just 250 to get my max up

 

[Celorza]

great reply Celorza.

Thx buddy :3 , haven't seen you around much lately

 

[BeBuff]

Gonna try out 5/3/1, but i dident really understand the setup and how it works.

 

[Celorza]

Hm , you should read it through again , and also this will help yah layout the whole month cycle if you train 4 days a week (better for size , 3 days a week is more for cutting since you throw in more cardio and more deficit days in calories) :

http://www.strstd.com/

 

[BeBuff]

Thanks.

 

[Celorza]

Yea, I've been doing more reading then posting. Trying to learn more.

Good stuff , it helps ;p

 

[BeBuff]

Putting togheter the routine now, will post later so you guys can look at it and see if i did it right.

 

[BeBuff]

Example this:

Overhead Press - 5/3/1 (Does that mean 3 sets with 5 reps?)

 

[BeBuff]

Would it work to just do something like this:


Monday: Chest/Biceps
4 sets of Incline Dumbbell Press, 8-10 reps
3 sets of Bench Press 8-10 reps
3 sets of Incline Cable Flyes 8-10 reps
3 sets of Chest Dips until failure
3 sets of EZ-Bar Curls 8-10 reps
3 sets of Preacher Curls 8-10 reps
2 sets of Hammer Curls 8-10 reps

Tuesday: Legs/Calves
4 sets of Squats 8-10 reps
3 sets of Lunges 8-10 reps
3 sets of Leg Extensions till failure
3 sets of Leg Curls 8-10 reps
3 sets of Standing Calf Raises 8-10 reps
2 sets of Donkey Calf Raises 8-10 reps

Wednesday: Back
4 sets of Deadlifts 8-10 reps
3 sets of Lat Pulldowns 8-10 reps (Pulls ups når jeg klarer 8 reps med dem)
3 sets of Bent Over Rows 8-10 reps
3 sets of One-Arm Dumbbell Row 8-10 reps
3 Sets of Pullovers 8-10 reps
4 sets of Leverage Shrug 8-10 reps

Thursday: Shoulders/Triceps
4 sets of Shoulder Press 8-10 reps (Dumbbell og barbell, bytter på vær uke)
3 sets of Lateral Raises 8-10 reps
3 sets of Rear Delt Machine 8-10 reps
2 sets of Dips - Triceps Version 8-10 reps
3 sets of Close-Grip Bench Press 8-10 reps
3 sets of Skullcrushers 8-10 reps

 

[Celorza]

No that doesn't look at all like 5/3/1 , looks like bro-science retarded training...

 

[Celorza]

a 5/3/1 Program means this:

Example for Deadlift:

DAY 1 (Of the wave 1, so this is like this all week for the rest of the workouts too):
Warm up sets:
3-5 sets building up to the weight you have to start WITH the first set of today , around 10-15lbs LESS than the weight for the first WORKOUT SET.

Then workout sets for DEADLIFT DAY 1 WEEK 1

75% (NOW THIS MEANS 75% OF YOUR MAX WEIGHT YOU CAN DO FOR 1 TIME) x 5 REPS
NEXT SET
80% x 5
85% x 5

And there you go that is DAY 1 week 1 for deadlift OK!? Then you add ASSISTANCE WORK. It can either be a scheme called BORING BUT BIG, which means you do THE MAIN LIFT (WHAT I JUST EXPLAINED TO YOU) and then THAT SAME LIFT (so deadlift) for another FIVE SETS OF 10 REPS at your 50% max weight!!!.
There are other schemes , if you want hipertrophy that bad do the "Bodybuilders assistance work" it says RIGHT THERE what to do , how many sets and all , if not go for DAVE TATE'S PERIODIZATION BIBLE , 3 assistance exercises (compounds for best results) for 5 sets each exercise from 10-20 reps each , you control weight and number of reps, just keep them at 5 sets and 10-20 reps...


Now all this I explained looks NOTHING LIKE THE STUFF YOU POSTED BEFORE...stop training like a bro and train like a powerlifter and like a bodybuilder for christ sake please...READ IT AGAIN , if you don't get it again then i'll explain some more , you apply this scheme TO ALL THE 4 MAIN LIFTS.

NO YOU CAN NOT CHANGE BARBELL FOR DUMBBELLS
NO YOU CAN NOT DO SITTING OVERHEAD PRESS IT HAS TO BE STANDING
NO IT CAN'T BE DUMBBELLS AT ALL ON THE OH PRESS EITHER UNLESS YOU THROW IT IN THE ASSISTANCE WORK AGAIN
DO CHIN UPS , PULL UPS , HAMMER UPS , DIPS , PUSHUPS , ALL WEIGHTED FOR BEST RESULTS
PRACTICE PROPER FORM

Make me explain all this again or bring another bro-sh*t workout like the past one and I'll neg you to red >:3!!! I had a bad day today at the gym!! AAAAAH! And yet I am here explaining to you what came so easily explained in the guide and in the calculator IT EVEN SAYS IT THERE IN THE 5/3/1 CALCULATOR WTF TO DO! DO IT AGAIN!

READ IT AGAIN
http://www.muscleandstrength.com/workouts/hardcore-look-at-jim-wendlers-5-3-1-powerlifting-system.html
DO IT AGAIN
http://www.strstd.com/

 

[napalm]

Cel, you nailed it. Good advice as always...

 

[BeBuff]

a 5/3/1 Program means this:

Example for Deadlift:

DAY 1 (Of the wave 1, so this is like this all week for the rest of the workouts too):
Warm up sets:
3-5 sets building up to the weight you have to start WITH the first set of today , around 10-15lbs LESS than the weight for the first WORKOUT SET.

Then workout sets for DEADLIFT DAY 1 WEEK 1

75% (NOW THIS MEANS 75% OF YOUR MAX WEIGHT YOU CAN DO FOR 1 TIME) x 5 REPS
NEXT SET
80% x 5
85% x 5

And there you go that is DAY 1 week 1 for deadlift OK!? Then you add ASSISTANCE WORK. It can either be a scheme called BORING BUT BIG, which means you do THE MAIN LIFT (WHAT I JUST EXPLAINED TO YOU) and then THAT SAME LIFT (so deadlift) for another FIVE SETS OF 10 REPS at your 50% max weight!!!.
There are other schemes , if you want hipertrophy that bad do the "Bodybuilders assistance work" it says RIGHT THERE what to do , how many sets and all , if not go for DAVE TATE'S PERIODIZATION BIBLE , 3 assistance exercises (compounds for best results) for 5 sets each exercise from 10-20 reps each , you control weight and number of reps, just keep them at 5 sets and 10-20 reps...


Now all this I explained looks NOTHING LIKE THE STUFF YOU POSTED BEFORE...stop training like a bro and train like a powerlifter and like a bodybuilder for christ sake please...READ IT AGAIN , if you don't get it again then i'll explain some more , you apply this scheme TO ALL THE 4 MAIN LIFTS.

NO YOU CAN NOT CHANGE BARBELL FOR DUMBBELLS
NO YOU CAN NOT DO SITTING OVERHEAD PRESS IT HAS TO BE STANDING
NO IT CAN'T BE DUMBBELLS AT ALL ON THE OH PRESS EITHER UNLESS YOU THROW IT IN THE ASSISTANCE WORK AGAIN
DO CHIN UPS , PULL UPS , HAMMER UPS , DIPS , PUSHUPS , ALL WEIGHTED FOR BEST RESULTS
PRACTICE PROPER FORM

Make me explain all this again or bring another bro-sh*t workout like the past one and I'll neg you to red >:3!!! I had a bad day today at the gym!! AAAAAH! And yet I am here explaining to you what came so easily explained in the guide and in the calculator IT EVEN SAYS IT THERE IN THE 5/3/1 CALCULATOR WTF TO DO! DO IT AGAIN!

READ IT AGAIN

Thank you so ****ing much mate, i understand it all now.

I should have understanded it at your first post, sorry, my english is not so good xD, but you explained easy enough to understand it this time. i added the Dave Tates Periodiztation Bible as assistance.

Will rep you when im able to.

 

[MuscleGauge1]

Man he really helped you out a lot. I love when people are able to give full descriptions of exercises and techniques to help others. That's really what the forums are all about

 

[kingk0ng]

Im looking for a workout program that is based on adding size.

Workout programs are not what determines size. Size is determined by calories, more than anything. You can have any effective workout program, but if you aren't giving your body enough calories to grow you won't grow, but on the other hand, if you give your body enough calories to grow, then any program will add size as long as the overload principle is met.

The best advice for a balanced overall routine is this: train every muscle fiber type and not just one. Do low reps, high reps and speed reps. Train your lower body both dynamically and maximally. Train your upper body with both high reps and low reps. Stick with compound movements and train antagonistically training each movement twice per week.

 

[Celorza]

Workout programs are not what determines size. Size is determined by calories, more than anything. You can have any effective workout program, but if you aren't giving your body enough calories to grow you won't grow, but on the other hand, if you give your body enough calories to grow, then any program will add size as long as the overload principle is met.

The best advice for a balanced overall routine is this: train every muscle fiber type and not just one. Do low reps, high reps and speed reps. Train your lower body both dynamically and maximally. Train your upper body with both high reps and low reps. Stick with compound movements and train antagonistically training each movement twice per week.

We had already covered his caloric surplus in other posts and he has a semi-good diet on a surplus, but thanks for trying to sound cool. And I beg to differ, not only is caloric surplus needed but proper hypertrophy and rest which he needs to learn through a proper building program now his diet is kind of in check.

 

[kingk0ng]

We had already covered his caloric surplus in other posts and he has a semi-good diet on a surplus, but thanks for trying to sound cool. And I beg to differ, not only is caloric surplus needed but proper hypertrophy and rest which he needs to learn through a proper building program now his diet is kind of in check.

My statements covered the ladder. Training each movement two days per week gives plenty of rest and training antagonistically to assure balance. Not sure what your point was in quoting my post but if I wrote something you want to contradict feel free to do so and feel free to back it up.

And which "hypertrophy" are we in reference to? Sarcoplasmic? Myofibrillar? Both? Etc?

 

[mattys4]

Hm , you should read it through again , and also this will help yah layout the whole month cycle if you train 4 days a week (better for size , 3 days a week is more for cutting since you throw in more cardio and more deficit days in calories) :

http://www.strstd.com/

Thanks for posting this link i have been looking into 5/3/1 and this lays it all out for you

 

[Celorza]

My statements covered the ladder. Training each movement two days per week gives plenty of rest and training antagonistically to assure balance. Not sure what your point was in quoting my post but if I wrote something you want to contradict feel free to do so and feel free to back it up.

And which "hypertrophy" are we in reference to? Sarcoplasmic? Myofibrillar? Both? Etc?

To both, so he gets to enhance pump in one, while also encouraging and tearing both muscle fiber kinds with a pairing of high volume , low volume and explosive workouts which he can adapt into 5/3/1 however I merely laugh and enjoy the wish for you to debate me when you began with a pretty bold statement: "workout programs are not what determines size" certainly not only being or surplus is, he needs to work for it, and he is a beginner , now you mr pro, would you recommend him to jump straight into the hm and have him know what the function of a rest pause, a drop set, hyper stretching of the fascia, add sets, perfect and elect reps are without him even mastering first the main compound lifts and proper assistance work to build strength so he can know his body before engaging in this practices? I mean whole point of what I told him is so he learns this things step by step and doesn't hurt himself. Please keep trying to debate in this...I would enjoy more bold statements as the aforementioned kind.

 

[Celorza]

Thanks for posting this link i have been looking into 5/3/1 and this lays it all out for you

You're welcome , its pretty useful indeed, saves you the time to calculate it all by yourself.

 

[kingk0ng]

To both, so he gets to enhance pump in one, while also encouraging and tearing both muscle fiber kinds with a pairing of high volume , low volume and explosive workouts which he can adapt into 5/3/1 however I merely laugh and enjoy the wish for you to debate me when you began with a pretty bold statement: "workout programs are not what determines size"

Yes. I recommend all three fiber types being worked. What you need to realize young kid is that there are MULTIPLE forms of growth. There's myofibrillar hypertrophy, which is the thickest form and comes with low reps and there is sarcoplasmic hypertrophy, which is also important for growth and comes from high reps. THIS alone shows that for optimal growth we need to stimulate both fiber types and not just one.

And yes, I'll debate with you. I probably have more years of training and research under my belt than the amount of time you've been broke from diapers.

Do you not agree with Dr. Squat "Fred Hatfield" in his tests that muscular development depends on the amount of slow twitch and fast twitch fibers, all relative to the individual and muscle group?

I stand by my "bold statement". If you don't EAT to gain mass, then gaining mass is simply not going to happen. Have you ever heard of catabolism? It's what occurs when the body fails to meet its demand of nutrients. It's when the body starts stealing nutrients that it doesn't receive, and amino acids are stole from the muscle, resulting in muscular atrophy.

certainly not only being or surplus is, he needs to work for it, and he is a beginner , now you mr pro, would you recommend him to jump straight into the hm and have him know what the function of a rest pause, a drop set, hyper stretching of the fascia, add sets, perfect and elect reps are without him even mastering first the main compound lifts and proper assistance work to build strength so he can know his body before engaging in this practices?

Did you not read my post? I said master compound movements training antagonistically. The antagonist of each motion needs to be worked to assure appropriate balance to that conditions like lordosis, protracted shoulders, internal rotation of the humerus, and so forth does not occur. You mentioned nothing about barbell rows, pullups and assistance movements like weighted dips, power cleans and front squats do not HINDER performance.

One of the sole purposes of compound movement training in beginners is increasing muscular coordination, since muscles were designed to perform as a unit, so the body grows as a whole and no muscular imbalances shall develop.

Nobody recommended rest pauses or drop sets, that is just you assuming things because you didn't pay attention to a quarter of my post. I said I recommend him to work high reps, low reps and speed training. Speed training allows fibers that are not regularly worked to be worked, and once again, that does not hinder any type of performance. You mention Joe DeFranco in your earlier post, yet you are suddenly against form of speed training in novice trainees? That doesn't make any sense.

I mean whole point of what I told him is so he learns this things step by step and doesn't hurt himself. Please keep trying to debate in this...I would enjoy more bold statements as the aforementioned kind.

I stand by my bold statement. Please don't eat for a week and continue on your magical program and lets see what type of gains you experience. Without calories, muscular growth cannot occur.

I also found some more flaws in your posts earlier. You need at least 3 years experience to train DC? BS. If you're the guru you make yourself out to be you'd know that years experience isn't what determines whether someone is a novice or intermediate lifter. The amount of appropriate training far out weighs the ladder.

You're recommending 5/3/1 to a beginner? You should know that linear progressive resistance is the best principle for a novice weight lifter. Something like starting strength would have been much better recommended. 5/3/1 is a much slower form of progression for later down the line.

 

[Celorza]

OH GOD! This made me laugh so hard!!! hahahahahaha i clearly poked a man ego there I did not say it is a magic program , I watch my diet with OCD (diagnosed) so believe me it is even better than most here , and wouldn't surprise me that yours too since I measure to even the slightest detail posible, again OCD...so now when did I say DON'T eat and keep working out? hahahahahahaha xD OMFG lay of the juice and please learn some rhetoric and critical writing , I would seriously answer in a more straight and composed manner to this pose but it just cracked me up specially the part where you try to impose again the big ego! and the bold statement of pure food is all you need!! hahahahahahahahaha you need to train! , food is 90% , training is 5% and resting is 5% in my books mr juice xD but seriously he needs to train anyway omg...I can't keep laughing as I recall the boldness and highly lacking of the principles of "Building of Meaning in Critical Reading and Writing"- College is good believe me...now just let me enjoy this a bit more and finish work I got pending atm and i'll answer in a more proper and enjoyable (to my own extent of keep pressing on your juice-ego and seeing your reaction again) manner . This is the kind of thing that makes me laugh and happy sometimes ^^ thanks I had a horrible morning today and this cheered me up!

 

[kingk0ng]

OH GOD! This made me laugh so hard!!! hahahahahaha i clearly poked a man ego there I did not say it is a magic program , I watch my diet with OCD (diagnosed) so believe me it is even better than most here , and wouldn't surprise me that yours too since I measure to even the slightest detail posible, again OCD...so now when did I say DON'T eat and keep working out? hahahahahahaha xD OMFG lay of the juice and please learn some rhetoric and critical writing , I would seriously answer in a more straight and composed manner to this pose but it just cracked me up specially the part where you try to impose again the big ego! and the bold statement of pure food is all you need!! hahahahahahahahaha you need to train! , food is 90% , training is 5% and resting is 5% in my books mr juice xD but seriously he needs to train anyway omg...I can't keep laughing as I recall the boldness and highly lacking of the principles of "Building of Meaning in Critical Reading and Writing"- College is good believe me...now just let me enjoy this a bit more and finish work I got pending atm and i'll answer in a more proper and enjoyable (to my own extent of keep pressing on your juice-ego and seeing your reaction again) manner . This is the kind of thing that makes me laugh and happy sometimes ^^ thanks I had a horrible morning today and this cheered me up!

Once again, if you have grow up and learn a little bit about training that you can actually have a discussion about it without making a fool of yourself, feel free to do so.

 

[Celorza]

And yes I do agree with the aforementioned knowledge of eating for mass , but merely what I was poking your ego about (and I will continue) is your horrible use of grammar and of falacies to an extent, while do watch out for those myself so no one can come and try to tell me I'm wrong in composing skills , your statement will keep being flawed as long as you make it sound as though the only thing you need for mass is eating , wrong...if you mean FAT mass , agreed , but we are talking muscle , food comes first , he set up his diet already , training comes next , without training and if he is on a surplus he will only turn into most americans...now debate that and keep telling me your statement isn't flawed god f*cking damn it xD hahahaha...Admit you need to change it , I do agree with you that both myofibrilar and sarcoplasmic movements are needed for christ sake read all we have written again , we both mention the importance of compound lifts , and we both come from research sources , but for christ sake CHANGE THE F*CKING statement already xD! NOT ONLY FOOD IS NEEDED! PROPER TRAINING TOO! OTHERWISE ITS JUST GETTING FAT!

GOOD LORD XD HAHAHA

 

[boogyman]

For a novice, I would do starting strength for at least 2-4 months before doing 5-3-1 for two reasons. One, doing all the compound lifts multiple times a week really helps to hammer down form, which is important as you get stronger. And two, you add weight faster to each lift so you build a base of strength faster. After 2-3 resets, then move on to the 5-3-1.

 

[Celorza]

Once again, if you have grow up and learn a little bit about training that you can actually have a discussion about it without making a fool of yourself, feel free to do so.

And believe me , I am merely laughing at your flaws in composing and attempt to deliver knowledge , while still standing like a brute oaf behind a statement that says:
"You only need food for mass" jesus christ XD I will keep pressing on this until someone teaches you not to write such bold statements which can be considered as falacies since its impossible that 1 and only arguement applies to all cases , hence I did say , "he needs this...AND this too, and so on and so forth" because you can NOT close something up and narrow mind it like that!! God...if he just buys it because you are mr pro and he doesnt read on he might just read: "you just need food to grow" and will eat and not train ;p (unlikely I know he is a smart sapient person) but watch it or you just might make another retarded statement like that in something more complex that someone might misunderstand and be responsible for something bigger hahaha

 

[kingk0ng]

And yes I do agree with the aforementioned knowledge of eating for mass , but merely what I was poking your ego about (and I will continue) is your horrible use of grammar and of falacies to an extent, while do watch out for those myself so no one can come and try to tell me I'm wrong in composing skills , your statement will keep being flawed as long as you make it sound as though the only thing you need for mass is eating , wrong...if you mean FAT mass , agreed , but we are talking muscle , food comes first , he set up his diet already , training comes next , without training and if he is on a surplus he will only turn into most americans...now debate that and keep telling me your statement isn't flawed god f*cking damn it xD hahahaha...Admit you need to change it , I do agree with you that both myofibrilar and sarcoplasmic movements are needed for christ sake read all we have written again , we both mention the importance of compound lifts , and we both come from research sources , but for christ sake CHANGE THE F*CKING statement already xD! NOT ONLY FOOD IS NEEDED! PROPER TRAINING TOO! OTHERWISE ITS JUST GETTING FAT!

GOOD LORD XD HAHAHA

You've demonstrated beyond belief you have no knowledge of training. There's no point in further arguing with you. It's funny how you recommend a college graduate to go back to school and take english classes, when your use of capitalization, run on sentences, grammar, punctuation and ellipsis usage are about a humerus as your views on training.

For the record, I said no matter what program you are on it won't work unless the nutrition is there. I never told anyone to overeat. That is just, once again, your lack of understanding of human communication. I recommended a specific form of training and explained why, and you found it necessary to respond telling me about your mental disorders and that you have a good diet, then embarrassed yourself by exploiting that you have the conduct of a 2nd grade kid at lunch time.

 

[boogyman]

Actually, even better, do a 5x5 after SS. One of the many Bill Starr variations. Then when thats exhausted itself move on to something else.

Reasoning is simple. SS adding weight every workout. Starr, adding weight every week. 5-3-1, adding weight every month.

 

[mattys4]

i wanted to ask a few things about 5/3/1 but am enjoying this debate a lil too much

 

[Celorza]

You've demonstrated beyond belief you have no knowledge of training. There's no point in further arguing with you. It's funny how you recommend a college graduate to go back to school and take english classes, when your use of capitalization, run on sentences, grammar, punctuation and ellipsis usage are about a humerus as your views on training.

For the record, I said no matter what program you are on it won't work unless the nutrition is there. I never told anyone to overeat. That is just, once again, your lack of understanding of human communication. I recommended a specific form of training and explained why, and you found it necessary to respond telling me about your mental disorders and that you have a good diet, then embarrassed yourself by exploiting that you have the conduct of a 2nd grade kid at lunch time.

Yes you did explain it , but I will keep pressing, that standing behind (and furthermore declaring it in such words) an argument that literally says all you need is food, is quite contradictory to your arguments posted apriori and aposterori of such. Now as for my English skills, I am deeply sorry my enjoyment, and cynical way of laughing at this subject, gets in the way of you comprehending me or provides you with the weapons to (Properly, actually) criticize my way of writing. I am indeed 21 years old, and have always had this issue at hand. Thing is, my brain sometimes works faster than my Monitoring (super Ego if you may) skills allow me to control myself, and end up going berserk on the keyboard and writing in a manner not like my principles dictate. Though to be honest, I do not find anything wrong it sometimes, when I do remind myself (subconsciously of course) that it is just the internet, and being a conceited prick like I am, I am excluded of any of my demands for symbolism and proper etiquette in the writing department.

Is that better Mr College Graduate? For the record, I do not presume you would enjoy me bashing my academic conquests as you, as I do not think we should compare my lifts to yours. Point of this analogy being, I have dedicated more of my life to the polishing of my brain and manipulative skills in the sociopath-like aspect of my personality, rather than to Body Building , which I deeply regret. Lately I have found much more joy in the gym than in making use of amoral behaviors like the use of one's fluent tongue and innocent looking charm to get one's agenda fulfilled at the expense of others.

That said I do believe we have nothing further to discuss, as early stated I am an arrogant prick, and do not take respect in the likes of you, who clearly lack some kind of spark I look for people I seem to admire. You do however pose a great deal of physical strength and it is commendable indeed, but as far as the kind of person I would enjoy having a conversation...well lets just say I would just laugh at you and think nasty things of you inside of me and occasionally letting them slip my tongue . Good day to you sir !

 

[kingk0ng]

Yes you did explain it , but I will keep pressing, that standing behind (and furthermore declaring it in such words) an argument that literally says all you need is food, is quite contradictory to your arguments posted apriori and aposterori of such. Now as for my English skills, I am deeply sorry my enjoyment, and cynical way of laughing at this subject, gets in the way of you comprehending me or provides you with the weapons to (Properly, actually) criticize my way of writing. I am indeed 21 years old, and have always had this issue at hand. Thing is, my brain sometimes works faster than my Monitoring (super Ego if you may) skills allow me to control myself, and end up going berserk on the keyboard and writing in a manner not like my principles dictate. Though to be honest, I do not find anything wrong it sometimes, when I do remind myself (subconsciously of course) that it is just the internet, and being a conceited prick like I am, I am excluded of any of my demands for symbolism and proper etiquette in the writing department.

Is that better Mr College Graduate? For the record, I do not presume you would enjoy me bashing my academic conquests as you, as I do not think we should compare my lifts to yours. Point of this analogy being, I have dedicated more of my life to the polishing of my brain and manipulative skills in the sociopath-like aspect of my personality, rather than to Body Building , which I deeply regret. Lately I have found much more joy in the gym than in making use of amoral behaviors like the use of one's fluent tongue and innocent looking charm to get one's agenda fulfilled at the expense of others.

That said I do believe we have nothing further to discuss, as early stated I am an arrogant prick, and do not take respect in the likes of you, who clearly lack some kind of spark I look for people I seem to admire. You do however pose a great deal of physical strength and it is commendable indeed, but as far as the kind of person I would enjoy having a conversation...well lets just say I would just laugh at you and think nasty things of you inside of me and occasionally letting them slip my tongue . Good day to you sir !

No hard feelings. Good luck to you with your training and goals.

 

[Celorza]

No hard feelings. Good luck to you with your training and goals.

Same , and may I point out , I do watch out for the specifics you and I both mentioned , diet , proper training and sleep. But then again, I am just someone who started close to a year ago, and I can not compare my text-based knowledge and research , to someone with experience on it. Thing is I sometimes let myself forget this is more empirical sometimes than scientific, though both ways are needed to learn and build upon the knowledge of BBing imo.

 

[kingk0ng]

Same , and may I point out , I do watch out for the specifics you and I both mentioned , diet , proper training and sleep. But then again, I am just someone who started close to a year ago, and I can not compare my text-based knowledge and research , to someone with experience on it. Thing is I sometimes let myself forget this is more empirical sometimes than scientific, though both ways are needed to learn and build upon the knowledge of BBing imo.

For the most part you were correct. You were correct with the basics in understanding to focus on compound movements, progression, nutrition, rest, etc. I think if you continue to research how things work you'd be good with physiology, but a lot of people just don't like to learn in a lot of detail. Afterall, you don't have to learn how electricity works to flip a light switch.

 

[Celorza]

For the most part you were correct. You were correct with the basics in understanding to focus on compound movements, progression, nutrition, rest, etc. I think if you continue to research how things work you'd be good with physiology, but a lot of people just don't like to learn in a lot of detail. Afterall, you don't have to learn how electricity works to flip a light switch.

That last part I liked haha , but I did have to learn it haha. I am en engineer after all ;p. Thanks for the good thoughts.

 

[BeBuff]

So this is what you do to get big
Eat over maintance
Lift heavy
Sleep

Then when your done with bulking, you start cutting
Then reapeat and over time you will get big

Anyway how long should i stay on 5/3/1, any stats i should aim for in deadlift etc..

 

[Celorza]

So this is what you do to get big
Eat over maintance
Lift heavy
Sleep

Then when your done with bulking, you start cutting
Then reapeat and over time you will get big

Anyway how long should i stay on 5/3/1, any stats i should aim for in deadlift etc..

Just aim for progress bro...there's the usual saying that Intermidiate Deadlifts are 1.5x BW , Advanced are 2-2.5x BW and Elite are 3x BW...

You stay on it as long as you want , its just repeating the MacroCycles and progressing , its only if you like it, if not you can adapt to another program and keep progressing , the point of bodybuilding is to keep progressing , and if you plateau , find a way out of it , by changing the diet/traning habits and rest time , its important that those 3 are always in close check to locate errors , so keep a log.

And yeah basically , old school bodybuilding proposes the Bulk and Cut procedure , and New School Bodybuilding , says that you should cut and lean out completely and then slowly bulk up in the leanest possible way, hence articles like "Is bulking bad?" are catching the attention of many readers. I personally think its a matter of taste , as long as you don't get an amount of BF over 10-12% you should be fine , because it still holds true that a leaner body is a more anabolic body , so if you are concerned about getting over that bf comfort zone , cut up a bit , and then bulk up again , always trying to keep the majority of the muscle mass built so your progression is not that hindered by cutting phases.

Remember , BBing is a MARATHON takes YEARS to build the physique you desire for yourself, don't try to turn it into a sprint or despair and make mistakes like going into AAS PH/DS stuff thinking you can "short cut it".

 

[kingk0ng]

So this is what you do to get big
Eat over maintance
Lift heavy
Sleep

Then when your done with bulking, you start cutting
Then reapeat and over time you will get big

Anyway how long should i stay on 5/3/1, any stats i should aim for in deadlift etc..

That's the basic of it. You want to watch calories if your goal is to stay lean i.e. don't cheat often, eat healthy foods, maintain cardio, etc.

There also comes in the balance aspect of things i.e. if you bench you should row, if you press you should pullups, etc.

Then there comes the technical part where you should learn form, mechanics, kinesiology of movement.

Then there comes the technical aspect of nutrition (biology).

Then there comes what I was in reference to earlier: principles, frequency, volume, intensity, individual recovery, CNS, hypertrophy development, etc.

 

[lboston]

Actually, even better, do a 5x5 after SS. One of the many Bill Starr variations. Then when thats exhausted itself move on to something else.

Reasoning is simple. SS adding weight every workout. Starr, adding weight every week. 5-3-1, adding weight every month.

I agree with this. Couple years back I did a 10 or so week stronglifts 5x5 and had great gains in size and strength. This was of course not the first type of routine I used, but I do believe it would bode well for anyone after a starting strength type program that focuses on liner progression principles.

 

[boogyman]

I agree with this. Couple years back I did a 10 or so week stronglifts 5x5 and had great gains in size and strength. This was of course not the first type of routine I used, but I do believe it would bode well for anyone after a starting strength type program that focuses on liner progression principles.

I don't understand why any novice lifter, whatever their goals are, would not spend the first couple years of training doing SS followed by one of the many linear 5x5's. Doing the more advanced programs holds you back, when you could be adding weight to the bar and getting stronger so much faster (not to mention all the "practice" you get doing squats and deadlifts so frequently). If you goal is bulking, as long as your diet is in check and your getting proper rest, you will get bigger on these routines as well.

 

[lboston]

I don't understand why any novice lifter, whatever their goals are, would not spend the first couple years of training doing SS followed by one of the many linear 5x5's. Doing the more advanced programs holds you back, when you could be adding weight to the bar and getting stronger so much faster (not to mention all the "practice" you get doing squats and deadlifts so frequently). If you goal is bulking, as long as your diet is in check and your getting proper rest, you will get bigger on these routines as well.

Totally agree man. I loved the 5x5 programs when I I'd them. I still incorporate 5x5 principles in to my lifting. However, I'm at a point now where adding 5lbs each workout is not really feasible, so I add weight weekly. Once my squat got around 375 for 5x5 it was every week additions and not every workout.

OP needs to get him a notebook, find a solid program like SS or Strong Lifts and just focus on adding that weight to the bar. Adding more weight/ reps than the week/ workout before will bring the growth he desires.

 

[BaDgErFaN]

I agree with the others who said to wait on 531. You should start with a program like starting strength. That will allow you to add weight every workout instead of every month. 531 is better suited for someone who has milked a program like SS to the point that you can't make the daily progress anymore.

 

[boogyman]

I am actually using SS right now. I spent almost a year training for and doing endurance events (this is after a back injury), so I was away from weights. I did tons of running, cardio and bodyweight movements. It still works great to jumpstart the lifts, and re-learn the squat and deadlift. I did start adding it slightly larger increments than Rippetoe recomends for a novice. I will hopefully get another 6 weeks or so out of it before moving to a single factor 5x5.

 

[Rodja]

I agree with the others who said to wait on 531. You should start with a program like starting strength. That will allow you to add weight every workout instead of every month. 531 is better suited for someone who has milked a program like SS to the point that you can't make the daily progress anymore.

I'm a bigger fan of 5/3/1 than SS for anyone. The main reason for that is 5/3/1 gives you a solid outline and then variety with the assistance templates to both stave off boredom and to increase critical thinking. Also, strength is not linear and 5/3/1 takes that into consideration. My main thing with 5x5 and SS is that they are too rigid in their construction. I do, however, agree that the majority of the time spent by a new lifter should be basic barbell training with some DB assistance work for balance.

 

[boogyman]

I'm a bigger fan of 5/3/1 than SS for anyone. The main reason for that is 5/3/1 gives you a solid outline and then variety with the assistance templates to both stave off boredom and to increase critical thinking. Also, strength is not linear and 5/3/1 takes that into consideration. My main thing with 5x5 and SS is that they are too rigid in their construction. I do, however, agree that the majority of the time spent by a new lifter should be basic barbell training with some DB assistance work for balance.

I do not advocate using SS for very long periods of time. But for a novice it is the best way to start IMO. Also I agree these programs are rigid, but for a novice they should be. I am doing SS right now for reasons I mentioned earlier, but I made some small changes to it. I do consider myself a step or two above novice level.

As far as strength not being linear, its not strength thats even being talked about, its progression. If you bench stalls before your squat (as it probably will), than you reset the bench and keep going with the squat. How is that not flexible enough? I think we all agree a novice should spend the majority of his time learning and improving his squat, deadlift, bench and such. Wouldn't more progress with form, especially technical lifts such as squats and deadlifts, be learned better doing these lifts multiple times a week, instead of the once a week like in a 5-3-1? And why would you advise someone to add small amounts of weight each 4 weeks as in a 5-3-1, when a novice can add weight every day, or week?

 

[Rodja]

I do not advocate using SS for very long periods of time. But for a novice it is the best way to start IMO. Also I agree these programs are rigid, but for a novice they should be. I am doing SS right now for reasons I mentioned earlier, but I made some small changes to it. I do consider myself a step or two above novice level.

As far as strength not being linear, its not strength thats even being talked about, its progression. If you bench stalls before your squat (as it probably will), than you reset the bench and keep going with the squat. How is that not flexible enough? I think we all agree a novice should spend the majority of his time learning and improving his squat, deadlift, bench and such. Wouldn't more progress with form, especially technical lifts such as squats and deadlifts, be learned better doing these lifts multiple times a week, instead of the once a week like in a 5-3-1? And why would you advise someone to add small amounts of weight each 4 weeks as in a 5-3-1, when a novice can add weight every day, or week?

In this context, strength is progression and linear programs have a very short shelf life, which is my aversion to programs such as SS. Improvement should also be clarified as that could mean in either technical proficiency or raw numbers. Squatting over and over and over is not going to improve your strength numbers on your squat. It will improve technique (assuming they actually know how to squat), but you do not improve your performance on a given lift by repeated efforts with it since you are not addressing the weaknesses in the kinetic chain. For example, if your upper back is limiting your squat numbers, you have to directly strengthen the weakness or the imbalance will continue to grow and this is something that is not taken into account in SS or 5x5. It's not enough to just reset your bench once someone stalls out; you need to figure out why it is happening and directly strengthen the weakness.

Weaknesses in the kinetic chain are a moving target and the rigidity of linear systems does not address these issues as they arise or teach the most important aspect of training: critical thinking. Part of the downfall of the internet has been the overabundance of information out there and not enough time actually spent sitting in a gym deciding on how to keep progressing.

 

[boogyman]

In this context, strength is progression and linear programs have a very short shelf life, which is my aversion to programs such as SS. Improvement should also be clarified as that could mean in either technical proficiency or raw numbers. Squatting over and over and over is not going to improve your strength numbers on your squat. It will improve technique (assuming they actually know how to squat), but you do not improve your performance on a given lift by repeated efforts with it since you are not addressing the weaknesses in the kinetic chain. For example, if your upper back is limiting your squat numbers, you have to directly strengthen the weakness or the imbalance will continue to grow and this is something that is not taken into account in SS or 5x5. It's not enough to just reset your bench once someone stalls out; you need to figure out why it is happening and directly strengthen the weakness.

Weaknesses in the kinetic chain are a moving target and the rigidity of linear systems does not address these issues as they arise or teach the most important aspect of training: critical thinking. Part of the downfall of the internet has been the overabundance of information out there and not enough time actually spent sitting in a gym deciding on how to keep progressing.

I agree with most of what your saying, I simply don't agree this applys to a beginner or novice. I would describe a novice as someone who has not stuck with a program long enough to reap or exhaust its benefits. In order to fix these weaknesses your describing, they have to be found first. I agree SS has a relatively short shelf life. And a 5x5 can easily be modified to address specific weaknesses. Box squats, board or floor presses, or other variations of squats and deadlifts can easily be incorperated in a single or dual factor 5x5 if needed to address specific weaknesses.

 

[kingk0ng]

In this context, strength is progression and linear programs have a very short shelf life, which is my aversion to programs such as SS. Improvement should also be clarified as that could mean in either technical proficiency or raw numbers. Squatting over and over and over is not going to improve your strength numbers on your squat. It will improve technique (assuming they actually know how to squat), but you do not improve your performance on a given lift by repeated efforts with it since you are not addressing the weaknesses in the kinetic chain. For example, if your upper back is limiting your squat numbers, you have to directly strengthen the weakness or the imbalance will continue to grow and this is something that is not taken into account in SS or 5x5. It's not enough to just reset your bench once someone stalls out; you need to figure out why it is happening and directly strengthen the weakness.

Weaknesses in the kinetic chain are a moving target and the rigidity of linear systems does not address these issues as they arise or teach the most important aspect of training: critical thinking. Part of the downfall of the internet has been the overabundance of information out there and not enough time actually spent sitting in a gym deciding on how to keep progressing.

Rodja raises some great points. I'm an advocate of a lot of Rippetoes writings (some of it), but I'm not a huge fan of the routine. As mentioned, I believe assistance exercises can have strong placement into novice trainees routines. Another thing is the lack of horizontal pulling being such a major factor into the potential of tremendous shoulder imbalances in the future, and Rippetoe himself is an example of this.

Boogyman, any program can be linear if you adjust the principles. The program I spoke of earlier was very well adding weight each week. Lets also not forget that overload does not refer to strictly intensity. You can overload a muscle by increased tempo, volume, decrease in rest between sets. Adding weight every week is just one of the ways of doing so.