Small muscle groups are not sore

[castro956]

I workout every other day and the days I hit chest and triceps and the day I hit back and biceps or legs and shoulders .. My triceps, biceps, and shoulders are not even sore at all. I push weight pretty hard at the gym but them muscle groups are not sore at all. I feel like I'm doing something wrong.

Any advice ?

 

[ZiR RED]

Soreness is not an indicator of a productive workout nor growth.

If you want growth and strength increases, then whats important is that the workload increases over a period of time (progressive over load). That is, more reps with the same weight, more weight, shorter rest periods while maintaining the same load, greater volume, etc.

If you want soreness for the sake of soreness, than start doing a lot of eccentric (negatives) and you will cause microtrauma to the muscle fibers and be sore.

Br

 

[Rodja]

What are you doing for triceps and shoulders? If the majority of your training here is not compound lifts (e.g. standing overhead, close-grip, dips, floor press), then you need to change that. Biceps can be tricky since most don't utilize the eccentric contraction.

 

[castro956]

Well I use dumbbells for shoulder workouts and for my triceps I do skull crushers and single are pull downs at 3 sets, high reps till failure

 

[Rodja]

Not nearly enough overload on either the triceps or delts. The backbone of my delt training are standing overhead press as nothing compares to it for delt strength and mass; for triceps, it's dips and floor presses.

 

[castro956]

I'll have to try that out

 

[BigRigg]

Not nearly enough overload on either the triceps or delts. The backbone of my delt training are standing overhead press as nothing compares to it for delt strength and mass; for triceps, it's dips and floor presses.

Why floor presses, that tears my chest up big time. I tend to do them when I am having shoulder discomfort while training chest. I agree it is a great exercise, but what made you incorporate it into a tricep workout?
I feel repetitive.

 

[Rodja]

Why floor presses, that tears my chest up big time. I tend to do them when I am having shoulder discomfort while training chest. I agree it is a great exercise, but what made you incorporate it into a tricep workout?
I feel repetitive.

Floor presses are generally done with a more narrow grip compared to bench and the limited range of motion puts more of the tension on the triceps.

 

[ZiR RED]

When done correctly the floor press is like a close grip press, and also limits the ROM. The issue is many people do them with the elbows flaired out. The elbows should almost be tucked against the sides.

I like dumbbell floor presses from a supine bridge.

Also, the skull crusher (when done correct. i.e.: elbows inline with shoulders, not flaired out) is a great exercise to develop the long head of the tricep.

Br

 

[BigRigg]

When done correctly the floor press is like a close grip press, and also limits the ROM. The issue is many people do them with the elbows flaired out. The elbows should almost be tucked against the sides.

I like dumbbell floor presses from a supine bridge.

Also, the skull crusher (when done correct. i.e.: elbows inline with shoulders, not flaired out) is a great exercise to develop the long head of the tricep.

Br

thank you sir, I have been doing them at about a 45 degree angle to the sides. What is your preferred exercise for the short head of the triceps. Seems to me like my left is larger than my right.

 

[zubda345]

I workout every other day and the days I hit chest and triceps and the day I hit back and biceps or legs and shoulders .. My triceps, biceps, and shoulders are not even sore at all. I push weight pretty hard at the gym but them muscle groups are not sore at all. I feel like I'm doing something wrong.

Any advice ?

You should control and slow your -ve motions and squeeze at the top... I would contradict with Zir Red's this line "Soreness is not an indicator of a productive workout nor growth." Not being sore atall is not good too. But muscles SHOULD be somewhat sore after your workout (by after I don't mean right-after, It may even not be sore right-after the workout but sore the next day).

 

[castro956]

You should control and slow your -ve motions and squeeze at the top... I would contradict with Zir Red's this line "Soreness is not an indicator of a productive workout nor growth." Not being sore atall is not good too. But muscles SHOULD be somewhat sore after your workout (by after I don't mean right-after, It may even not be sore right-after the workout but sore the next day).

I don't even get sore period

 

[zubda345]

I don't even get sore period

Do you really Squeeze your muscles?

AND

Do You still grow (even if you are not sore?)?

 

[ZiR RED]

I would contradict with Zir Red's this line "Soreness is not an indicator of a productive workout nor growth." Not being sore atall is not good too. But muscles SHOULD be somewhat sore after your workout (by after I don't mean right-after, It may even not be sore right-after the workout but sore the next day).

Not necessarily, a lot of athletes grow without any discernible soreness and there's even research that lends evidence to the notion that soreness is not an indicator of growth or productivity toward increased strength.

J Exp Biol. 2011 Feb 15;214(Pt 4):674-9.
Muscle damage and muscle remodeling: no pain, no gain?

Flann KL, LaStayo PC, McClain DA, Hazel M, Lindstedt SL.
Source

Department of Biological Sciences, Northern Arizona University, Flagstaff, AZ 86011-5640, USA.

Abstract

Skeletal muscle is a dynamic tissue that responds adaptively to both the nature and intensity of muscle use. This phenotypic plasticity ensures that muscle structure is linked to patterns of muscle use throughout the lifetime of an animal. The cascade of events that result in muscle restructuring - for example, in response to resistance exercise training - is often thought to be initiated by muscle damage. We designed this study to test the hypothesis that symptomatic (i.e. detectable) damage is a necessary precursor for muscle remodeling. Subjects were divided into two experimental populations: pre-trained (PT) and naive (NA). Demonstrable muscle damage was avoided in the PT group by a three-week gradual 'ramp-up' protocol. By contrast, the NA group was subjected to an initial damaging bout of exercise. Both groups participated in an eight-week high-force eccentric-cycle ergometry program (20 min, three times per week) designed to equate the total work done during training between the groups. The NA group experienced signs of damage, absent in the PT group, as indicated by greater than five times higher levels of plasma creatine kinase (CK) and self-reporting of initial perceived soreness and exertion, yet muscle size and strength gains were not different for the two groups. RT-PCR analysis revealed similar increases in levels of the growth factor IGF-1Ea mRNA in both groups. Likewise, the significant (P<0.01) increases in mean cross-sectional area (and total muscle volume) were equal in both groups. Finally, strength increases were identical for both groups (PT=25% and NA=26% improvement). The results of this study suggest that muscle rebuilding - for example, hypertrophy - can be initiated independent of any discernible damage to the muscle.


PMID:21270317 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]

And I encourage you to check out the conversation we had regarding this article:
http://anabolicminds.com/forum/exercise-science/187168-no-pain-no.html


Br

 

[zubda345]

Not necessarily, a lot of athletes grow without any discernible soreness and there's even research that lends evidence to the notion that soreness is not an indicator of growth or productivity toward increased strength.



And I encourage you to check out the conversation we had regarding this article:


Br

I never said that WITHOUT soreness one can't grow I just said NOT being sore atall is not good... There's gotta be some soreness in the muscles even if you can't feel... I will see the conversation when I get the time -saved in my favorites