when do muscles start to get damage?
- 02-10-2012, 01:18 PM
when do muscles start to get damage?
Hi I was just wondering, I get a lot of things like dont do to many sets or dont do to many reps or dont do to many machines since your muscle will just get damage and wont grow. or if you lift to much weight with to little sets, you wont grow neither like 4 reps.
so when does this usually happen? I am a bit confused on when this happens.
Like lets say I do 5 different Bicep exercises, 3 sets each 10-8 reps. Would that be a good or bad idea?
or a perfect example, chest....I do upper chest middle chest declined chest and flies. so what if I were to add dumbell bench press and dumbell flies. Will I just be over working them?
- 02-10-2012, 01:22 PM
Muscle "damage" is more or less how hypertrophy happens. As far as which rep range and/or volume works best goes, this is something that is highly individual and the only way to find out for you is experimentation.M.Ed. Ex Phys
- 02-10-2012, 01:42 PM
Some of this is going to echo Rodja...
Some muscle damage is necessary to muscle growth. Extreme muscle damage (i.e.: excessive soreness) will compromise the growth rate.
Its all individualized and based upon your conditioning and work tolerance. As a basic rule, don't do too much too soon. Build up in volume and/or intensity over a period of time.
02-10-2012, 07:23 PM
ok that makes sense. Yeah, I been doing 3 sets and 3 different machines for the past year, you think its safe to add in maybe 2 more chest exercises?
02-10-2012, 10:53 PM
02-11-2012, 01:07 PM
02-12-2012, 01:47 AM
this is my workout and I want you to tell me what you guys think...its for massing
chest (45 second rest in between) - (increasing weight every time I do chest the following week; example I put 45lbs next week I do 55lbs)
Bench press 10-8 reps 3 sets (struggling towards the end of the 8th or 9th rep)
inclined bench press 10-8 reps 3sets (struggling towards the end of the 8th or 9th rep)
Declined bench press - 10 - 8 resp 3 sets (struggling towards the end of the 8th or 9th rep)
Flies - 15 - 10 reps 3sets (struggling towards the end of the rep)
dumbell curls 10-8 reps 3 sets
ez bar curls 10 - 8 reps 3 sets
preacher curls 10-8 reps 3 sets
cable curls - 10 - 8 reps 3 sets
skull crushers - 12-10 reps 3 sets
rope pulldowns - 10- 8 reps 3 sets
regular pull downs 10 - 8 reps 3 sets
I have the others but Ill get the names later of the work outs
02-12-2012, 08:11 AM
I think you can do away with 2-3 of those bicep exercises and a few of the tricep exercises.
Is this all you do? Or is it just one workout (iow: do you train your lower body and back musculature as well?)
02-12-2012, 02:54 PM
Let's see the rest of your workouts. At some point your body isn't going to see a need to keep on much more mass than it has. If you want to get huge you need to be doing the large compound lifts that stress the entire body-Squats, Deadlifts, Bench Press, Overhead Press, and Barbell Rows.
If you want to do more assistance work then go for it, but these large compound lifts should be at the core of your routine. Biceps are small muscles so all this biceps work is silly and may even become counter-produtive. A lot of really strong dudes do very little work targeted directly at biceps.
If this is the only workout you are doing you are going to come up with some muscle imbalances which are not only dangerous, but you are going to hit a wall in your training. You need a strong back to get a huge bench, and you need a strong everything if you want to keep gaining.
Starting Weight: 155lbs. Current Weight: 170lbs. Target Weight 185lbs.
Beginning SL 5x5.
02-12-2012, 05:18 PM
no I do other stuff as well.
I do squats and just started doing dead lifts. I work my back as well and legs and abs. But its just an idea if thats a good work program.
I plan on doing that for maybe 8 weeks, then switch it up. I never stay on the same exercise. for more then 8 weeks.
so for biceps
3 exercises are good enough? 3 sets 10-8 reps each?
02-12-2012, 08:47 PM
What exactly do you do for legs, back, and core? That should be a bigger priority than your bicep routine. From a mass and strength perspective, direct bicep work is relatively unimportant provided you properly train your back. I have done maybe 10 sets of bicep work this year (that is not a typo).
M.Ed. Ex Phys
02-13-2012, 08:04 AM
02-13-2012, 10:26 AM
Squat, legs curls, dumbbell lounges, i work the hamstring (dont know the name of the exercise), and 2 calf exercises. (3 sets each 10-8 reps struggling towards the end of each 8 to 10 rep)
pull ups, long cable rows, hyper extensions, Close-Grip Front Lat Pulldown , regular Lat pull downs, upright row, machine rows ( 3 sets each 10-8 reps)
I want to replace or add dead lifts,Barbell Rear Delt Row, Barbell Lunge , Barbell Shoulder Press , Barbell Squat , Chin-Up
what other compound exercises are good? I am just trying to create a decent workout plan for 8 weeks, unless one of you guys have one =)
02-13-2012, 03:34 PM
As far as other exercises, there are several squat and pull variants (front squats, Bulgarians, rack pulls, and hex DLs just to name a few) as well as exercises like step-ups, fat man pull-ups, overhead/push press, and pullovers.
A pretty basic routine could be a push-pull-combo split:
- Back Squat
- Horizontal or vertical press
- Barbell Lunge
- Auxiliary horizontal or vertical press
- Dips or Pullovers
- Dead Lift (followed by ~10 minute rest)
- Bent Over Row or Prone Row
- Face Pull
Core wise, either following Monday and Friday or on Tuesday/Thursday, you could pick 3-5 exercises (not just crunches, but weighted rotational and extension exercises too) and perform 2-3 sets of each with 12-15 reps per set. They shouldn't be barn-burner difficult, but they should be stimulating enough to actually strengthen your trunk muscles.
- Back Squat
- Vertical or Horizontal Press
- Bench Row or Fat Man Pull-Up
- Glute-Ham Raise or Reverse Hyper
There aren't any "emphasis/isolation" exercises, but the compound lifts will provide a greater stimulus than tons of flyes, curls, and pressdowns would. If you're still pretty new to training, you could go for 3x10s or 3x5s in a pretty basic overload fashion (strive for x reps and increase as your strength improves, make incremental increases to the weight) with a de-load week every 4-6 weeks, depending on how you feel. You shouldn't stay training that way forever, though, as constantly training to failure has been shown to be less effective than a sub-maximal periodized approach (don't worry about that for now). While I'm not a huge proponent of internet programs, you could also look at Starting Strength/5x5/5-3-1 for some direction once you get your feet wet.
Exercise variation will also depend on how much training you have. If you're still green, keep your major lifts the same for the next 8 weeks or so and vary your assistance work (bench rows, face pulls, etc.) after 4. And by vary, I mean perform similar movements--not completely new stuff (e.g., lunge-->Step-ups, dips <--> pullovers, chin up --> Pull-up, etc.). Hopefully that gives you an idea, but feel free to keep asking questions.
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