Crossfit

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    Crossfit


    What are your thoughts? Anyone currently doing Crossfit and would like to update me on your gains since you began Crossfit? Also, I do not belong to a Crossfit gym but I believe I can modify the workouts if needbe in order to do them in an ordinary gym... I've done it before this way and it got me to the best shape I have ever been in...

    looking for anyone else doing Crossfit to post me your thoughts, results, etc.


    thanks

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    I have been considering crossfit for a few months now. I would like to hear others opinion on this as well.
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    Crossfit is a fad for hipsters
    Getting back into the swing of things
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    It's a flash name for circuit training imo, but for the performance athlete it's great...
    "Dont worry about the burn man! You can do Jane Fonda classes if you want the burn"
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    Quote Originally Posted by ReyMan View Post
    Crossfit is a fad for hipsters
    When creating this thread, I was looking for educated feedback/comments... my apologies for not clarifying
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    Quote Originally Posted by dustin12

    When creating this thread, I was looking for educated feedback/comments... my apologies for not clarifying
    Talking about crossfit on here is like starting a fire with jet fuel lol. Especially since so many on here have only the goal of bodybuilding. Seems everyone is on one side of the fence or the other and I have yet to see a good discussion that wasn't derailed by passion and stubbornness.

    To your original question, I follow crossfit a lot and love it. It's not all I do sometimes I do a hybrid or switch back and forth between things. Mainly cause I get bored easily. I do do it quite often and have for a couple years. I have a high speed low drag job and crossfit fits well into my fitness needs.
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    Quote Originally Posted by CopyCat View Post
    Talking about crossfit on here is like starting a fire with jet fuel lol. Especially since so many on here have only the goal of bodybuilding. Seems everyone is on one side of the fence or the other and I have yet to see a good discussion that wasn't derailed by passion and stubbornness
    .
    I am not a bodybuilder but an athlete and I do not train crossfit style nor do I recommend it ever.

    Its not just bodybuilders who are against it.
    "The only good is knowledge and the only evil is ignorance." - Socrates
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    Quote Originally Posted by JudoJosh

    I am not a bodybuilder but an athlete and I do not train crossfit style nor do I recommend it ever.

    Its not just bodybuilders who are against it.
    Fair enough. Still, people are always on one side or the other. Like you not recommending it ever and me who does it and has recommended it.
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    I just dont see the point of it
    "The only good is knowledge and the only evil is ignorance." - Socrates
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    Quote Originally Posted by JudoJosh
    I just dont see the point of it
    I know man. I've seen your posts on it before and I know you've heard much if not all that there is to be said about it in its purpose. As you can tell I'm not trying to get into a detailed discussion here, particularly cause I'm using my iPad and phone right now. I contribute crossfit for my abilities to get through my 18 some months of training and have seen others performance, capabilities and abilities improve with it. I'm not an atthlete unless you call combat a sport. And especially in harder fields like mine where there is a tough selection of weeding people out. For me, it works and I enjoy it. Are there other methods out there that work also? Of course. Just like vanilla exists and people like it, though I just don't understand why when chocolate exists lol
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    Quote Originally Posted by JudoJosh View Post
    I am not a bodybuilder but an athlete and I do not train crossfit style nor do I recommend it ever.

    Its not just bodybuilders who are against it.
    Thank you!
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    Just lift and do cardio and/or agility drills. You are basically buying into a very generic program, which is better than not training. If it works for you and helps you to achieve your goals, then do it.

    I do agree that AM may not be the best place for this. It's like asking for an apple pie recipe in a hardcore porn forum...someone may have one but there are better places to find the info.
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    I have a few major issues with cross fit. Before I get to those, however, I will discuss some of the benefits.

    First, the use of primarily free weights and non-traditional resistance (ropes, hoops, sand bags, etc.).
    Second, the use of predominatly multi-joint exercises and olympic lifts.
    Third, the emphasis placed upon conditioning.
    Fourth, the team atmosphere.

    That said, there are some issues with it. I think the theory to application factors is what make the risks outweight the benefits in many cases.

    1. The lack of specificity. When we discuss functionality, we need to delimitate "functional toward what?" Strong men, football, track, tri-athalon, tactical, etc. all require different energy systems and different movement patterns. By ignoring the specialty of each activity in the exercise programming, it is impossible to optimize function.

    2. The use of olympic lifts to promote conditioning. Olympic lifts are high technical movement patterns that require metabolic and neural "freshness" to perform correctly, risk free, and to reap the benefits of. Because these lifts require nearly every muscle in the body, coordination, and maximal speed of movement, anything that causes neural or metabolic fatigue will result in poor motor programming, compensations, risk of injury, and increased over use tissue damage.
    I can make two analogies. Its like running a 400 m sprint all out, then trying to free climb a rock ledge. Bad idea.
    Or, for those of us who played sports, using technical drills that are designed to improve skills for conditioning. You will reinforce bad movement patterns that will result in failure (i.e.: shooting with the elbow facing out in basketball, kicking with the toes in soccer, etc.)

    3. And this is perhaps my biggest angst with crossfit. The lack of emphasis on technique and form. There is a quantity over quality mind-set in crossfit. It requires 4-12 months to teach someone to correctly perform a clean and jerk or olympic snatch. There is a whole host of progressions that go into developing technique in these movements. In crossfit, there does not appear to be any coaching regarding technique or form. This results in the development of bad motor programming which eventually can lead to over use tissue damage or freak injury.
    i.e.: If you watched the crossfit games on ESPN2, you would see that 90% of the competitors used horrible technique on their lifts: major back rounding on dead lifts, horrible clean form (landing on the toes, on one knee, etc.).

    4. If I placed this list in order, this would be 1a. The lack of balance, prehab, and corrective exercises. I recently spoke with a Duke orthopedic surgeon, who said something along the lines of "As long as crossfit and p90x keep gaining popularity, the demand for orthos will increase).
    We should not underestimate the importance of assessing and prescribing exercises to correct muscular imbalances. This (as far as I have seen) does not occur in cross fit programs.
    Next, there is no use of prehab movements to help prevent against injury. No rotator cuff, scaption, or hip abductor work, etc.
    Finally, there is no balance in the programs, and this can be seen in the scapula protraction (forward shoulders), internal humeral rotation, and anterior pelvic tilt in many who perform cross fit. To add to this, there is (to my observations) no prescription of corrective stretches either. All this leads to injuries due to impingement and poor joint alignment.

    Br

    EDIT: I should add to my benefits, the chicks are always so damn hot!
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    here is, IMO, an awesome opinion of crossfit.
    http://impact-pt.com/fitness/what-crossfit-is-and-isnt/

    i have done crossfit, had clients do it even. it has a purpose. but think of it as a tool in your toolbox. will this tool get the job done?

    crossfit by their own admittance tried to improve 10 general physical traits:

    1. Cardiovascular/respiratory endurance – The ability of body systems to gather, process, and deliver oxygen.
    2. Stamina – The ability of body systems to process, deliver, store, and utilize energy.
    3. Strength – The ability of a muscular unit, or combination of muscular units, to apply force.
    4. Flexibility – the ability to maximize the range of motion at a given joint.
    5. Power – The ability of a muscular unit, or combination of muscular units, to apply maximum force in minimum time.
    6. Speed – The ability to minimize the time cycle of a repeated movement.
    7. Coordination – The ability to combine several distinct movement patterns into a singular distinct movement.
    8. Agility – The ability to minimize transition time from one movement pattern to another.
    9. Balance – The ability to control the placement of the bodies center of gravity in relation to its support base.
    10. Accuracy – The ability to control movement in a given direction or at a given intensity.


    with trying to do that many things at once. you cant be great at any 1 thing. but you can still be real good at several of them. if you can handle the brutal workouts (most can't) then you will increase endurance and shed fat and even gain some strength.
    you can call me "ozzie" for short.
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    Very well put zir
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    CrossFit is great, but unless you're new to fitness, you may be better off doing some research and "programming" (as they call it) for yourself. I've been to a few classes and had a good workout and my times for Fran and several of the other ladies are very competitive. But I've trained more specifically to bring up the areas where *I* need work and I've replaced a lot of their high rep olympic lifting with similar full body odd object moves. For example, I'll flip a tractor tire across my yard and back rather than deadlifts. That's not to say I don't occasionally follow their prescribed workouts that call for these things, but usually, I'll only do it for the benchmarks, not the actual day to day training. CrossFit says all the right things in terms of being fit for the real world, but then, for some reason, they choose to use a very specific list of moves that are very skill oriented. I suspect the reason for this is so that everyone can use the same equipment, do the same standard benchmarks, etc., but I think for both safety and GPP, that they'd be better off if they mixed it up more and cut out the high rep oly stuff.
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    Quote Originally Posted by ZiR RED View Post
    I have a few major issues with cross fit. Before I get to those, however, I will discuss some of the benefits.

    First, the use of primarily free weights and non-traditional resistance (ropes, hoops, sand bags, etc.).
    Second, the use of predominatly multi-joint exercises and olympic lifts.
    Third, the emphasis placed upon conditioning.
    Fourth, the team atmosphere.

    That said, there are some issues with it. I think the theory to application factors is what make the risks outweight the benefits in many cases.

    1. The lack of specificity. When we discuss functionality, we need to delimitate "functional toward what?" Strong men, football, track, tri-athalon, tactical, etc. all require different energy systems and different movement patterns. By ignoring the specialty of each activity in the exercise programming, it is impossible to optimize function.

    2. The use of olympic lifts to promote conditioning. Olympic lifts are high technical movement patterns that require metabolic and neural "freshness" to perform correctly, risk free, and to reap the benefits of. Because these lifts require nearly every muscle in the body, coordination, and maximal speed of movement, anything that causes neural or metabolic fatigue will result in poor motor programming, compensations, risk of injury, and increased over use tissue damage.
    I can make two analogies. Its like running a 400 m sprint all out, then trying to free climb a rock ledge. Bad idea.
    Or, for those of us who played sports, using technical drills that are designed to improve skills for conditioning. You will reinforce bad movement patterns that will result in failure (i.e.: shooting with the elbow facing out in basketball, kicking with the toes in soccer, etc.)

    3. And this is perhaps my biggest angst with crossfit. The lack of emphasis on technique and form. There is a quantity over quality mind-set in crossfit. It requires 4-12 months to teach someone to correctly perform a clean and jerk or olympic snatch. There is a whole host of progressions that go into developing technique in these movements. In crossfit, there does not appear to be any coaching regarding technique or form. This results in the development of bad motor programming which eventually can lead to over use tissue damage or freak injury.
    i.e.: If you watched the crossfit games on ESPN2, you would see that 90% of the competitors used horrible technique on their lifts: major back rounding on dead lifts, horrible clean form (landing on the toes, on one knee, etc.).

    4. If I placed this list in order, this would be 1a. The lack of balance, prehab, and corrective exercises. I recently spoke with a Duke orthopedic surgeon, who said something along the lines of "As long as crossfit and p90x keep gaining popularity, the demand for orthos will increase).
    We should not underestimate the importance of assessing and prescribing exercises to correct muscular imbalances. This (as far as I have seen) does not occur in cross fit programs.
    Next, there is no use of prehab movements to help prevent against injury. No rotator cuff, scaption, or hip abductor work, etc.
    Finally, there is no balance in the programs, and this can be seen in the scapula protraction (forward shoulders), internal humeral rotation, and anterior pelvic tilt in many who perform cross fit. To add to this, there is (to my observations) no prescription of corrective stretches either. All this leads to injuries due to impingement and poor joint alignment.

    Br

    EDIT: I should add to my benefits, the chicks are always so damn hot!



    this is exactly why you shouldnt do crossfit
    Quote Originally Posted by alwaysgaining View Post
    I've also done fasting and doseing and felt grealt anabolicness , deffint hunger but I'm stronger than that keep full and vascular and strength gose up
    http://anabolicminds.com/forum/cycle-info/177245-swollen87s-training-log.html
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    I agree if you have been working out for awhile it is a bit of a waste of time. You could get more out of clean eating lifting and moderate cardio. Plus most of the crossfit gyms around me, see a few classes and the form they were using made my spine cry.
    Thats just my 2 cents
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    Just pick something you like and do it. Don't bother making threads about a particular way of training because there are always going to be people who will not like it and tell you it is worthless. It really is pointless to make a thread asking peoples opinions. That is all your going to get back opinion, speculation and arguing on either side. So really why waste time even asking.
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    Do Mike Menzter's HIIT routine! Or Dorian Yates Blood & Guts
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    I'm going to be somewhat balanced and say that the utility of Crossfit depends on your goals and is highly subjective depending on the gym near you.

    Firstly, Crossfit can only be adequately considered to a training system for GPP. Beyond that, you are deluding yourself. It sees no useful application in sports-specific training because like Zir pointed out, it is not specific at all! It cycles through myriads of exercises, sets/rep schemes, splits that will not help you hone in your skills, bring up weak points, etc. I think Crossfit can be a good thing to start out with if you've never trained before provided point 3 and 4 from Zir's post aren't an issue at your specific Crossfit gym.

    I know the CF gym near where I live, a lot of the coaches there are almost all afficionados of divergent fields (gymnastics, powerlifting, olympic lifting), and two things they bring to the table are: 1) teaching and drilling proper technique above all else, and 2) inclusion of mobility work, stretches, and molding the program to address muscular imbalances when they develop (lol). Their main goal is really to set you up so you can become involved in any athletic endeavor and have a really good base. And I think it can be ok for that, again provided you luck out and have good coaches there who will be of some worth. Another useful application is in the military, since a warrior out in the field could encounter any number of different scenarios, and training for endurance won't help him pick up heavy branches or blasted debris covering a person or some critical piece of equipment, and doing HIT sure as hell won't help him run for 10 miles in the woods from enemy combatants, or other such scenarios. Thus the utility of GPP training.

    My advice is to first address your goals and then chose a training system tailored to those goals. If you have absolutely no idea where you want to go - don't know if you want to be strong as hell, or shredded or massive, or a black belt jujitsu - then maybe Crossfit may be ok IF the trainers are great. Otherwise, you may very well be taking a gamble with your health and body because, as Zir pointed out, not only does the lack of specificity present special problems for stagnation with any sort of gains you might be looking for, but the lack of designing programs to prevent muscle imbalances, improve mobility, and drill proper form can lead to serious injury.
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    Quote Originally Posted by dustin12 View Post
    What are your thoughts? Anyone currently doing Crossfit and would like to update me on your gains since you began Crossfit? Also, I do not belong to a Crossfit gym but I believe I can modify the workouts if needbe in order to do them in an ordinary gym... I've done it before this way and it got me to the best shape I have ever been in...

    looking for anyone else doing Crossfit to post me your thoughts, results, etc.


    thanks
    We had a rep try crossfit once...
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    Well, beyond what I stated in my previous thread, this video just reinforces every negative aspect of cross-fit that I wrote about. Bad coaching, no specificity, no individuality, and no actual emphasis placed on muscular balance or flexibility.

    I'm going to watch the video again (sadly) and go through all the missed coaching cues and mistakes. And, for the record, I do not mean any offense to the person/people performing the workout. A lot of these exercises require many many sessions of good coaching to be able to do correctly. These are just my observations as a strength coach evaluating that of another ... mm... coach?

    2 min in: Look at the terrible form of cleans taking place in the back ground of the CF gym.

    3 Should never jump down off a tall box like that. Unneeded impact on the knee joint. Next, slamming the feet into the box on the landing is ill advised as well. You should try be coached to 'land like a cat'.

    3:20: When the trainee jumps onto the 24" box, watch the knees at the take off. They buckle in. This is due to tight adductors and really weak abductors, and if not correctly really puts the athlete at high risk for ACL injuries during sports that require cutting or jumping.

    5:30: Ugly cleans the entire way down the line. Rounded backs. No triple extension. Poor catch technique - elbows not high, landing knees forward. The coach is missing many many cues to improve the technique of the athletes. And even the instructor with the funky knee sleeves is not performing them correct.

    7 Neither the red head nor yourself has the shoulder mobility and scapular stabilizer strength to be doing over head lunges. This should be corrected prior to performing the exercise, which is also why that red headed girl is wobbling all over the place.

    8:45: Again, knees buckling in on the jump, the box land, and the jump down - and not a word a said about it. Makes the hair stand on the back of my neck.

    9:30: The military actually has a pretty strong stance AGAINST cross fit and other type workouts because of the increased prevalence of injuries suffered by war fighters who take part in this training due to muscular imbalances, lack of specificity, and rhabdomylosis.

    Nindl et al. - The military and ACSM commissioned the top exercise physiologists and biomechanics researchers to examine crossfit, p90x and other extreme conditioning programs. This is a summary of their report.

    Triplett & McBride - A good paper discussing the training needs of military personnel, and how cross fit and other circuit based programs neither meet all the needs nor are they appropriate or safe.

    Br
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    Zir,
    Everything you pointed out I see happen world wide in all kinds of gyms. Unfortunately poor execution, training, and coaching happens everywhere. Not saying that you are incorrect just that it applies to a much wider spectrum than crossfit.

    Also, not all the mitary is against crossfit as you mentioned. I only briefly skimmed the first ref as I am in my phone but it did not seem to me that they actually said nay but rather that they needed to observe and evaluate taking in its pros and cons am I wrong? There are official crossfit gyms on military bases world wide especially on marine corps and air force bases. Also, even though the navy has voiced its opinion against in the wake of a former sailor who got rhabdo (not while on active duty) they still quite often offer and send their command fitness leaders to crossfit seminars. Though to tell the truth the navy does not want a truly fit force. They want a fit force that is capable of doing their job and that is evidence in their official instructions on fitness and nutrition. I'll try to send you all the recent instructions for navy fitness if you would like. They have gotten better with some of it but it lacks. The marine corps obviously views fitness dif than the navy. Either way, until crossfit started to become prevaillant in the services they were still doing stretching run calisthenics stretching. And that was it officially. Now they are looking into it more and the corps has been coming out with more training that it has come up in relations to the first article you posted and it still looks quite a bit similar to crossfit. So to say the military advocates against it is not quite correct.

    Just a thought, is specificity a requirement for GPP training?
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    Quote Originally Posted by CopyCat View Post
    Zir,
    Everything you pointed out I see happen world wide in all kinds of gyms. Unfortunately poor execution, training, and coaching happens everywhere. Not saying that you are incorrect just that it applies to a much wider spectrum than crossfit.
    Poor form is universal in gyms world wide - true. But, when working with a personal trainer/instructor/coach, you would (I would) expect better instruction, at least being able to pick up poor technique cues and working to fix them.

    Also, not all the mitary is against crossfit as you mentioned.
    I was a little too bold with my statement. There are definite concerns with the cross fit program that have been voiced by military researchers and exercise scientists. These relate to poor coaching/instruction and non-specific programming, and the use of olympics for conditioning purposes.

    Just a thought, is specificity a requirement for GPP training?
    Would depend on who you talk to. Individual specificity should be. Identifying weak points or imbalances in the kinetic chain and working to fix these is a large part of GPP.

    Br
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    Quote Originally Posted by ZiR RED

    Poor form is universal in gyms world wide - true. But, when working with a personal trainer/instructor/coach, you would (I would) expect better instruction, at least being able to pick up poor technique cues and working to fix them.

    I was a little too bold with my statement. There are definite concerns with the cross fit program that have been voiced by military researchers and exercise scientists. These relate to poor coaching/instruction and non-specific programming, and the use of olympics for conditioning purposes.



    Would depend on who you talk to. Individual specificity should be. Identifying weak points or imbalances in the kinetic chain and working to fix these is a large part of GPP.

    Br
    I agree with expecting better instruction. In fact, I was in the gym in base yesterday during their crossfit class and saw a row of people doing lifts wrong or at least with broken form. For this reason I don't train with them. Regardless if they are stronger or faster than I I agree doesn't make them right. The original crossfit gym I went to and learned it with was different. There was a long period of classes in stages that progressed us. Depends on where you are at of course. Same same with other trainers. Maybe they may not be utilizing more "radical" lifts but I've seen them fail in teaching balance in training which is still a failure none the less.

    One thing to consider in regards to how one trains and official stance of the military is like most any govt agency it's gonna side more on the caution edge. Well see where it all ends up. Either way,it's forced them to reevaluate they do exercise though and will only lead to an improvement.

    In regards to your last response on specificity. I guess I just take some things for granted or on assumption when perhaps I shouldn't.
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