Possible to Reduce BF and Build Muscle At Same Time?

[dunhill225]

when in fact it is a major driving force to any substantial gain in LBM while dieting, especially in a 3 month period.

That blanket statement is simply not true at all. I personally am on trt... That's all but I concede that trt still puts me above the avg man when it comes to test levels BUT I have done it long before I ever touched anything. I did it as a teen, dis it as an adult after a lay off....wait I know.... Muscle memory BUT I have had a good amount of clients do it while on nothing, I have a woman I am training now that has lost about 50 lbs and has gained strength at an astonishing rate when you take her concurrent wt loss into account. There is no way she has not gained muscle. I've had client go from a pudgy 170 to a muscular 180 or so in a matter of months while on nothing. I am not saying its easy or that even everyone can but to say basically that someone must be on gear to make substantial LBM gains while losing fat is just incorrect.

You may not be able to, that does not mean others can not. I've worked with too many people that have (to varying degrees) gained and lost at the sane time.

As I said earlier, if your body does not go into starvation mode....why would you not be able to gain and lose at the same time?

[Frank Reynolds]

You are hearing what you want. I never said it was impossible, nor did I say people haven't done it, or have to be on. I am saying being on is a huge advantage. Take these same clients you speak of, add anabolics and report back.

I am not even sure how that is up for debate lol.

[dunhill225]

You are hearing what you want. I never said it was impossible, nor did I say people haven't done it, or have to be on. I am saying being on is a huge advantage. Take these same clients you speak of, add anabolics and report back.

I am not even sure how that is up for debate lol.

I am not hearing what I want when I quote you... Those are your words. No person in their right mind would argue that gear does not improve results... Dramatically. I have rather a lot if past experience in the area.

Maybe I am taking your posts to literally... But your post quoted says basically that if you have substantial gains in LBM while losing body fat it is always cause of gear (see your use of the words 'major' and 'any'). That can be true but doesn't have to be true and YES whatever results someone has will be greatly increased by gear (dose dependent).

[Frank Reynolds]

I am not hearing what I want when I quote you... Those are your words. No person in their right mind would argue that gear does not improve results... Dramatically. I have rather a lot if past experience in the area.

Maybe I am taking your posts to literally... But your post quoted says basically that if you have substantial gains in LBM while losing body fat it is always cause of gear (see your use of the words 'major' and 'any'). That can be true but doesn't have to be true and YES whatever results someone has will be greatly increased by gear (dose dependent).

when in fact it is a major driving force to any substantial gain in LBM while dieting, especially in a 3 month period.

See you are not reading or understanding what I am saying. YES it is a MAJOR driving force. Not the ONLY driving force. I never said every ounce of progress is SOLELY due to AAS.

Would you not consider AAS a major advantage? LOL I mean COME ON. You are agreeing with me in your last post, yet arguing with me on that quote..lol WHY? Because you are reading INTO IT, and not reading/comprehending what I wrote.

Lastly I was speaking on HIS situation, and HIS, transformation, not every transformation in the history of the world..lol We can't speculate on what it would have been like naturally as it WASN'T.

My point was lets not act like adding AAS into the mix is like adding a small diet aid, that has a very minor and minuscule effect. It is (and you said it YOURSELF with it helps "dramatically") a very big advantage when it comes to the topic at hand.

I am not sure what you are disagreeing with..lol Or do you just like to debate?

[Sourdough]

There is someone who likes to debate here thats for sure


I still think what your missing is his offense and mine as well, that the progress at hand was made with anabolics/muscle memory/recovering from injuries yes, but that ONLY exaggerated what was happening anyways and was being used as an example as to what was possible... and so in reply to the topic at hand, of course YES it can be done. Its not easy regardless. The points been made that Anabolics and supplements will aid in and accelerate the process... but COME ON, we are on Anabolic Minds a supplement and steroid board that was founded around the principles of "get your basics down pat and use A, B and C exogenous supplementations to achieve said goal faster and more reliably"....

I still hold firm that you came in here just wanting to play devils advocate as I put into light ALL that went into achieving the aforementioned transformation but you decided you not only had to pick apart what was used to do it but personally insult me by remarking that my progress wasnt even genuinely fat loss and muscle mass gain... (trying to downplay my progress by inaccurately downplaying my candid response as to how I got there)

I think someone here has a bit of the chip on the shoulder for some reason... Trouble doing the same? dont like seeing others succeed where you have failed??? lil man complex???

IDK, but its not becoming and turned this otherwise informative and straightforward thread into a personal debacle for no apparent reason whatsoever....

[Frank Reynolds]

I still hold firm that you came in here just wanting to play devils advocate as I put into light ALL that went into achieving the aforementioned transformation but you decided you not only had to pick apart what was used to do it but personally insult me by remarking that my progress wasnt even genuinely fat loss and muscle mass gain... (trying to downplay my progress by inaccurately downplaying my candid response as to how I got there)

I think someone here has a bit of the chip on the shoulder for some reason... Trouble doing the same? dont like seeing others succeed where you have failed??? lil man complex???

Please show me where I said the bolded..

As for the "trouble doing the same" I could throw up a natty transformation of mine that will make yours look bad. This isn't about me so I would be careful before you take it there. I am not one to throw the "I am bigger and badder then you" **** around, as it isn't my style, so don't make this about ME.

Obviously you have a chip on your shoulder. If you were that proud, and confident in your progress you wouldn't give a **** what some faceless, no-body on the internet thought, and wouldn't feel the need to get so defensive, when you are not even being called out..LOL

If I wanted to be a dick, I would have said you were in no shape to even be using AAS in the first place, and coulda dropped some BF naturally, before even resorting to AAS.. But I said you made a good transformation, and wasn't trying to take that away from you.

I never questioned your hard work. AAS isn't magic, but it sure as hell will improve results 10 fold.

Now you are resorting to throwing insults? I never insulted you at all. Lil man complex? I am heavier then you, in the single digits, and shorter then you by a few IN..lol Maybe you have some sort of body dysmorphia.

And funny thing is, it sounds like Dunhil is agreeing with me, just wasn't grasping what I was saying..LOL

So you wanna keep playing this game? It is your call brotha..LOL

YOU turned it into a personal debacle. Instead of taking my opinion FWIW you have to reply with your bleeding vag of a post. Just move on with your life. This is the internet, it isn't that serious..hah

[Sourdough]

I would love to see your transformation...

Scale weight means nothing until body composition has been established and this is the internet so you can say whatever you like but pics or GTFO

And "This is the internet, it isn't that serious" following your "bleeding vag" comment really puts into light your hypocrisy and lack of being able to conduct a distinguished conversation with someone.



The only one here who couldnt takes someones comment "FWIW" was yourself and having to come in here arguing semantics with everyone you came across.

Poke and prod all you like but your tone and argumentative demeanor have been apparent since your initial post in this thread (and many others Ive seen you post in)... I dont know how you can sanely make the remarks you do and act as though your not instigating a thing.

[Frank Reynolds]

You wanna toss some cash onto this bud?

[MM11]

It is possible. It is very slow and you really have to understand nutrient timing, diet, and macro needs.

If you wish to go this route I suggest a very clean lean bulk with the majority of your calories surrounding your work out.

[Sourdough]

WTH??? what do you expect to do? Pool our paypal accout funds with Dun as the holder to fw it on to the victor??? REALLY???


No man, I want to see you back up your big words, Ive put myself out there, you cant do the same? Id also like to have some kind of context as to what Im looking at, how long, what was used etc... cause I could easily do the good ol, post my 19 year old ectomorph pic and then my 205lb sub 10% pic from 2008 and call that a transformation when in all actuality its just progress...

Lets see what you got.

[Frank Reynolds]

The difference is I know what I have accomplished. Remember YOU brought me into this, I didn't go around claiming this or that.

How about this.. I will PM it to you. And you can make your own determination. I have no need to wave my e-peen around on here, as I said, I NEVER throw around the "I am xx than you card".. YOU threw it out there.

Then we can see if you can be a MAN and leave a PM to PM. Fair enough?

[Sourdough]

I have no problem with that whatsoever. im not here for a public showdown. I want to see that your not talkin out your hole

[dunhill225]

Frank,
To be clear... In general I agree with much of what you have said in your posts SINCE the one I quoted. I think in general we are on the same page but I think you believe its harder to accomplish than I do BUT I don't concede that I misunderstood or misinterpreted your post. I said maybe I took it too literally but stand by the fact that you said that gear was the "major" reason for "ANY" substantial gains in LBM. When you say "ANY" gains are from gear you are saying that no gains in LBM can happen while losing fat without gear. Maybe it was just a wrong choice of words...I've gotten caught up in discussions before and have made blanket statements that afterwards I'll admit and say "my bad, not what I meant to say, I just got carried away trying to make a point" and in all honesty I won't keep defending the comment. I think since that post you have acknowledged that it can and has been done without gear... I'm glad you clarified your position. As I said , my problem was with the word "ANY" more than anything else you said.

I will say that I honestly hate when people go "I got pics/vids of me... But I won't post them". If your gonna say it... POST THEM... Or in all honesty the words mean nothing. I have the same problem with the steroids gurus online and people giving advice on training online when they won't post pics. Yea we all have different genetics so I am not saying a guy giving advice needs to be 265 with abs... But if someone talks about gear or training they should look like they know what they are talking about so I ain't "calling you out" or anything....I just think words about what you are, can do, look like, etc... Without backing them up are hollow. That's my opinion. Not ripping you but YOU SAID what pics you COULD post... I didn't even see anyone asking for pics from you so .... Post em or don't make the comment. I will be the first to say "damn" if you look good and I would probably bet you do look good but I've seen these type of comments online for over a decade.... And it rings of the old truism that when you wanna know who is telling you the truth... It's not the guy that tells you ten times he is not lieing cause that means he is.

Understand I am NOT saying that is YOU... Just talking about what I've seen over the years (hell that *******s Roberts still makes a living out if his moms basement in hackensack as a steroids guru even after it was shown he has been talking **** for over a decade!). I've seen people post pics of others, a dude on another board bragged about his arms and when called on it posted a pic of Dantes tris....lol.... It took 5 secs for him to get called on it and he vanished... Sure he just is on the boards making claims under another handle. I hope you understand the point... Why PM them by the way? That reaks on many levels....

So with all due respect, put up or shut up.

I hope, and think, you will. And I'll say "way to prove your point, ya look great" if ya do.

Peace

[Frank Reynolds]

Frank,

Not ripping you but YOU SAID what pics you COULD post... I didn't even see anyone asking for pics from you so .... Post em or don't make the comment. I will be the first to say "damn" if you look good and I would probably bet you do look good but I've seen these type of comments online for over a decade....

LOL.. Again you are reading what YOU want, defining ANY in YOUR own way, or are reading INTO IT too much. The word ANY is not necessarily = to ALL. If I meant ALL I would have said ALL gains. Or I would have said "it is "THE ONLY"

Definition of ANY

1
: one or some indiscriminately of whatever kind:a : one or another taken at random <ask any man you meet>b : every —used to indicate one selected without restriction<any child would know that>

2
: one, some, or all indiscriminately of whatever quantity:a : one or more —used to indicate an undetermined number or amount <have you any money>b : all —used to indicate a maximum or whole <needs anyhelp he can get>c : a or some without reference to quantity or extent<grateful for any favor at all>

3
a : unmeasured or unlimited in amount, number, or extent<any quantity you desire>


b: appreciably large or extended <could not endure it anylength of time>

So we will leave it at that, as I don't want to go around in circles with you all day.

Secondly, I NEVER make comments about throwing my pics up, out of the blue. In fact I ALSO dislike when people throw that out there, I was just bitching at someone else for doing it the other day.. People get in a disagreement and automatically go "I am right, I am big" ok...sure..lol

Sourdough has my pics, I followed through with what I said, we hashed it out, and it's all good.. He can respond if he wants and verify, or not, it isn't a big deal to me. I don't feel the need to have my pics on the net, as I could care less. I know what I am, and what I am not.

You like having your pics/vids out there, I don't. Simple as that.

[Sourdough]

ill say, im impressed with what he did natty and choose to leave it at that, weve buried the hatchet.

[Frank Reynolds]

Thanks brotha. I agree, no hard feelings on my part. Sometimes tone, and **** get lost in internet land lol.

[EasyEJL]

Anyhow, back to the original poster. You can. Its relatively easy the first 3-6 months of weightlifting to make a major loss of fat + gain of muscle. After that trying to do both at once is a slow process, but is still doable. the interesting thing that i've seen is that someone who loses the fat and gains the muscle (without using large doses and multiple cycles of steroids) slowly over time has a better chance of staying lean and keeping the muscle than someone who goes through repeated bulk/cut phases.

[Sourdough]

Anyhow, back to the original poster. You can. Its relatively easy the first 3-6 months of weightlifting to make a major loss of fat + gain of muscle. After that trying to do both at once is a slow process, but is still doable. the interesting thing that i've seen is that someone who loses the fat and gains the muscle (without using large doses and multiple cycles of steroids) slowly over time has a better chance of staying lean and keeping the muscle than someone who goes through repeated bulk/cut phases.

I agree...

There is a discipline that comes with fine tuning a diet for Recomp.... Its easy IMO to just cut cals or pack em in... Bulking and cutting lends itself to failure since an extreme is taken and too many cant maintain that extreme without falling off eventually and losing progress... Maintaining a recomp diet has got to better for your health too I would have to think.