Bent over row question

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    Bent over row question


    Whenever I see people in the gym doing bent over rows it seems they are ALWAYS just heaving the weight up. I admit I am also guilty of this. Well today I tried to really focus on the contraction more, and man is it hard. When I heave the weight around I usually work up to around 245, today with good form i barely got past 175. I was just wondering what everyones opinions is on this exercise because I do feel it both ways, but waht has worked better for back width and size for everyone, real heavy, or nice tight form with bent over rows?

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    i do pendlay rows, back is parallel to teh floor. set the weight down, pull, set down and repeat. give them a whirl
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    Quote Originally Posted by GeekPoop View Post
    i do pendlay rows, back is parallel to teh floor. set the weight down, pull, set down and repeat. give them a whirl
    i like that, thanks .....im tryin to work on "earnin my wings" if u know what I mean haha
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    Quote Originally Posted by GeekPoop View Post
    i do pendlay rows, back is parallel to teh floor. set the weight down, pull, set down and repeat. give them a whirl
    I did those for a few weeks once and they were insane. Matter of fact I might jump back on it.
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    i bet u gotta be real strict with those
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    Quote Originally Posted by mkretz View Post
    Whenever I see people in the gym doing bent over rows it seems they are ALWAYS just heaving the weight up. I admit I am also guilty of this. Well today I tried to really focus on the contraction more, and man is it hard. When I heave the weight around I usually work up to around 245, today with good form i barely got past 175. I was just wondering what everyones opinions is on this exercise because I do feel it both ways, but waht has worked better for back width and size for everyone, real heavy, or nice tight form with bent over rows?
    haha ive seen that. I think thats why people call one arm dumbbell rows "lawnmowers" lol. But on back day in general i go lighter, so heavy bbrows are something i rarely do. form over weight
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    Quote Originally Posted by WKUanimal View Post
    haha ive seen that. I think thats why people call one arm dumbbell rows "lawnmowers" lol. But on back day in general i go lighter, so heavy bbrows are something i rarely do. form over weight
    esp. with back, I notice now that im lightening the weights, and throwing my ego out the door and feeling the back work im actually sore the next day
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    Quote Originally Posted by mkretz View Post
    esp. with back, I notice now that im lightening the weights, and throwing my ego out the door and feeling the back work im actually sore the next day
    lol yeah dude, it took me a while to be able to leave my ego at the door, but when i did, my back exploded. Plus nothing beats the squeeze+pump on low rows
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    i did DL's at the end of my workout today and squeezed on teh pull back and DAMN were my lats pumped
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    Quote Originally Posted by WKUanimal View Post
    lol yeah dude, it took me a while to be able to leave my ego at the door, but when i did, my back exploded. Plus nothing beats the squeeze+pump on low rows
    what ego is involved lol

    take the heaviest weight you can handle without hurting yourself/breaking form... and LIFT IT


    thats how you grow/get stronger.... and OP- please change that avatar LOL
    Quote Originally Posted by alwaysgaining View Post
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    Quote Originally Posted by mkretz View Post
    i did DL's at the end of my workout today and squeezed on teh pull back and DAMN were my lats pumped
    Thats where i put my deads too, i tried doing SLDL's on leg day, but my legs were tellin me no after quads lol
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    Quote Originally Posted by swollen87 View Post
    what ego is involved lol

    take the heaviest weight you can handle without hurting yourself/breaking form... and LIFT IT


    thats how you grow/get stronger.... and OP- please change that avatar LOL

    haha yea i prolly should put up a new pic huh....tomorrow......... goodnight!
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    Quote Originally Posted by swollen87 View Post
    what ego is involved lol

    take the heaviest weight you can handle without hurting yourself/breaking form... and LIFT IT


    thats how you grow/get stronger.... and OP- please change that avatar LOL
    Lol, my point is for me at least, there was a time where i was confident enough to go big, but i didnt focus on my form as much as i should have, especially with deadlifts.
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    Quote Originally Posted by WKUanimal View Post
    Lol, my point is for me at least, there was a time where i was confident enough to go big, but i didnt focus on my form as much as i should have, especially with deadlifts.
    lol i feel you... i deadlift like derek poundstone lol..

    pretty much just grip and rip with no hip...

    fuc it lol... at least im getting stronger 585 dl
    Quote Originally Posted by alwaysgaining View Post
    I've also done fasting and doseing and felt grealt anabolicness , deffint hunger but I'm stronger than that keep full and vascular and strength gose up
    http://anabolicminds.com/forum/cycle-info/177245-swollen87s-training-log.html
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    LOL i like that phrase. and hey man whatever works
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    The key is definitely using good form on BO Rows. Also, being as close to parallel as possible maximizes the benefits of the exercise. I can only get really that way if I do like a 4 inch deadlift from the floor, otherwise I always cut it a little high which makes me more prone to jerk it at higher weights. I used to try and do BO Rows with like 245-255 with some light to moderate jerking and could never go up. I then reset to 175 with strict form, and I'm now up to 315. It's probably the best bang for your buck back exercise IMO (though I dont have experience with Pendley Rows, and probably will not incorporate them in my DC training as I'd be overtraining lower back I'm sure).
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    **** that noise. I do them closer to Dorian style because I need maximal overload. If you do anything with super strict for, then you're limiting the amount of overload that you can place on any given lift. When you're a beginner, then you should have "textbook" form as you lay your foundation, but, the more advanced you get, the more you should tinker with it and find your own groove. For example, look at Ronnie on BB Rows: they're far from ideal, but you can't argue with the results.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rodja View Post
    **** that noise. I do them closer to Dorian style because I need maximal overload. If you do anything with super strict for, then you're limiting the amount of overload that you can place on any given lift. When you're a beginner, then you should have "textbook" form as you lay your foundation, but, the more advanced you get, the more you should tinker with it and find your own groove. For example, look at Ronnie on BB Rows: they're far from ideal, but you can't argue with the results.
    Yeah, and what weight is he using and how does he look vs. what weight you're using and how you look. Exactly why OP should stick with good form.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Torobestia View Post
    Yeah, and what weight is he using and how does he look vs. what weight you're using and how you look. Exactly why OP should stick with good form.
    This doesn't make sense and "good form" is highly ambiguous. As long as his scapula are retracting, then the form is good in my back.

    BTW, I'm currently doing 315x15 at BW of 210.
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    If you want to see how much your form(and momentum) is involved in bent over rows then try putting that same weight on the chest supported row machine! Opened my eyes and my back thanked me for it.
    Always open light. Itís not what you open with, itís what you finish with. Louie Simmons
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    all great points guys....one thing I will say taht if your gna jerk the weight up, TRY to keep it under control on the way down tt way you are getting teh negative overload for sure. That has seemed to work for me in the past
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    Quote Originally Posted by mkretz View Post
    all great points guys....one thing I will say taht if your gna jerk the weight up, TRY to keep it under control on the way down tt way you are getting teh negative overload for sure. That has seemed to work for me in the past
    This. Also, keep your head up and don't do the bobbing that you constantly see with rows.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rodja View Post
    This doesn't make sense and "good form" is highly ambiguous. As long as his scapula are retracting, then the form is good in my back.

    BTW, I'm currently doing 315x15 at BW of 210.
    Yeah, I got no doubts that means you could benefit using better form on your "power" rows, lol.

    Quote Originally Posted by AZMIDLYF View Post
    If you want to see how much your form(and momentum) is involved in bent over rows then try putting that same weight on the chest supported row machine! Opened my eyes and my back thanked me for it.
    Basically. As to the Ronnie Coleman example given above, even if he jerks to get them up he's still using a ****ton of weight, so even with the weight taken off the rows he is still lifting a lot of weight with his back. If you BO a lot less than he does, then with the weight compensated by jerking taken off the bar, that leaves you with very little left to work your back with. At most you get negative work done, which is going to do something but suboptimal to using better form.
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    The concern with rows, as with deads and squats is lower back. Ive found tha dumbell rows with both feet on the floor, one hand on the bench is effective and safer than barbell.
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    I use a reverse grip when doing bent-over rows and find that it helps me isolates my lats more than an overhand grip. I also like the pendlay rows
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    Quote Originally Posted by Torobestia View Post
    Yeah, I got no doubts that means you could benefit using better form on your "power" rows, lol.


    Basically. As to the Ronnie Coleman example given above, even if he jerks to get them up he's still using a ****ton of weight, so even with the weight taken off the rows he is still lifting a lot of weight with his back. If you BO a lot less than he does, then with the weight compensated by jerking taken off the bar, that leaves you with very little left to work your back with. At most you get negative work done, which is going to do something but suboptimal to using better form.
    Benefit how? I'm not looking for hypertrophy. I need stronger lats/traps to support the weight for bench, stabilizing for squats, and locking out on deads. A decade of training has given me the ability to know what works best for my particular frame and needs.

    Also, Ronnie weighed ~300 lbs in his heyday and usually did BB Rows with 405 for 10-12. Strength is relative to the person. On a pound-for-pound basis, I do more than he does on them.
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    form strict to a point. keep back close to parallel as you can but youre realling jerking it off the floor, your back may go up a little. just as long as youre using emphasis on your back and not "dead lifting" it up. youll be able to tell if youre doing it right or not pretty quickly
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    i think you can cheat it a little.... im 200lbs and i do rows with 365x6

    theyre not 100% perfect but at least 90%
    Quote Originally Posted by alwaysgaining View Post
    I've also done fasting and doseing and felt grealt anabolicness , deffint hunger but I'm stronger than that keep full and vascular and strength gose up
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    Quote Originally Posted by swollen87 View Post
    i think you can cheat it a little.... im 200lbs and i do rows with 365x6

    theyre not 100% perfect but at least 90%
    A little body English is a good thing once you have the M-M connection. Just for a reference, I bring the bar to the bottom of my patella and then drive it into my umbilicus as fast as possible and followed by a controlled negative. I like to keep a higher rep range because it really, really hits your conditioning.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rodja View Post
    A little body English is a good thing once you have the M-M connection. Just for a reference, I bring the bar to the bottom of my patella and then drive it into my umbilicus as fast as possible and followed by a controlled negative. I like to keep a higher rep range because it really, really hits your conditioning.
    yeah, i bring the bar way below my knee, almost an inch from the ground..... TBH i agree with higher rep work for conditioning, but right now, im training for strength.... this always happens lol.... i gain gain gain until i get around 15% bf, and then i get mad about being fat, and i cut to 8% and lose all my strength.... so i have made the commitment to just stay somewhat lean with my diet, and train for strength...

    ive been hunting down a 600lb deadlift for a while now... i cant afford to be doing reps in the 10-15 rep range
    Quote Originally Posted by alwaysgaining View Post
    I've also done fasting and doseing and felt grealt anabolicness , deffint hunger but I'm stronger than that keep full and vascular and strength gose up
    http://anabolicminds.com/forum/cycle-info/177245-swollen87s-training-log.html
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    Some very good advice in this thread, and I agree with most all of it, form is important to a point, a little cheat on rows is ok, and grab and get the weight up also works, I think the key point is knowing when to do what, and not always doing the same thing, change it up sometimes, one day focus strictly on form, the next time focus on moving as much weight as safely possible, the next time something in the middle and so forth.
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    Quote Originally Posted by swollen87 View Post
    yeah, i bring the bar way below my knee, almost an inch from the ground..... TBH i agree with higher rep work for conditioning, but right now, im training for strength.... this always happens lol.... i gain gain gain until i get around 15% bf, and then i get mad about being fat, and i cut to 8% and lose all my strength.... so i have made the commitment to just stay somewhat lean with my diet, and train for strength...

    ive been hunting down a 600lb deadlift for a while now... i cant afford to be doing reps in the 10-15 rep range
    I used to think the same way, but almost every PL'er I talk to says to go to higher reps on the assistance lifts. Hell, amongst the most impressive things I've ever seen is this:
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    kroczaleski i watched his video the other day actually... when he goes up to the 300lb db he hits lower reps


    come to think of it, when i do "kroc" rows, i generally strap up to the 150 and try to hit 20

    but barbell rows, i stay low rep, heavy... maybe ill try to switch it up
    Quote Originally Posted by alwaysgaining View Post
    I've also done fasting and doseing and felt grealt anabolicness , deffint hunger but I'm stronger than that keep full and vascular and strength gose up
    http://anabolicminds.com/forum/cycle-info/177245-swollen87s-training-log.html
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    Quote Originally Posted by swollen87 View Post
    kroczaleski i watched his video the other day actually... when he goes up to the 300lb db he hits lower reps


    come to think of it, when i do "kroc" rows, i generally strap up to the 150 and try to hit 20

    but barbell rows, i stay low rep, heavy... maybe ill try to switch it up
    Setting rep PR's is just as big, to me at least, as setting a weight PR.
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    I agree with the mind muscle connection point, I thinkt hat is the most important aspect of any lift by far, If you can't feel that muscle working then you are not working hte muscle you jsut just moving the weight, and for most of us that will not give us the results we want
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    wow learn something new.. im pretty new to the game, ive been training but very seriously for about 1 year now. my form was offf so f'ing bad. was pulling the bar to my chest. just knocked a couple sets out to try it out in correct form..this feels FAR more effective
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    Quote Originally Posted by steppinRazor View Post
    wow learn something new.. im pretty new to the game, ive been training but very seriously for about 1 year now. my form was offf so f'ing bad. was pulling the bar to my chest. just knocked a couple sets out to try it out in correct form..this feels FAR more effective
    The most important thing is to learn what works for your body. No two specific forms will be the same because no two bodies are the same.
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    Quote Originally Posted by steppinRazor View Post
    wow learn something new.. im pretty new to the game, ive been training but very seriously for about 1 year now. my form was offf so f'ing bad. was pulling the bar to my chest. just knocked a couple sets out to try it out in correct form..this feels FAR more effective
    jsut squeeze those lats and let them do the work.....you'll be flyin with those wings in no time
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