Help with Power/Hypertrophy Split

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    Help with Power/Hypertrophy Split


    Okay, this is kinda lengthy, but I was trying cover every possible area...Thanks in advance for any help.


    Main Goals would be thicker wider chest/back, bigger biceps. Higher volume (14-16 sets) has always worked for my arms. Also, many say my leg workout routines are weak. It works for me and my legs are at 30 inches. However, If anyone has recommendations for calf exercises Iíll take those.

    That being said, Iíll be bulking while using this routine. 400 grams protein a day, 300g carbs, 80g fat. Iíll be taking the following supps:

    Halotest 50/50/75/75/75/100
    Creatine 2250mg of ethyl ester twice a day
    Animal Pak Multivitamin
    All my cycle supports supps: cycle assist, liver care, etc.
    A whole bunch of water..


    Monday: Power Lower
    Tuesday: Power Upper
    Wednesday: Off
    Thursday: Lower Hypetrophy
    Friday: Chest Back Hypertrophy
    Saturday: Arms Hypertrophy

    Concerns:
    1. When Should I do Power shoulders on power upper day?
    2. Should I do shoulders/bis/tris following a chest/back workout the day before?

    Solutions?:
    1. Do Power Shoulders on Power Upperday or do on shoulders hypertrophy day.
    2. Move Chest/back to Thursday and move legs hypertrophy to Friday. As I'm typing this I think I will do that. Although I'm not sure how rested chest and back will be from power upper day...

    Other Thoughts:

    1. could put shoulders with legs to lessen the load on arms days.
    2. Is there enough rest between arms hypertrophy and power upper?

    If possible, I can take out legs hypertrophy day. My legs are already 30 inches, and I could just put calves on another day. To be honest, I really donít want my legs to grow much moreÖ30 inches is fine with me, my upper body is the biggest concern.

    Monday:

    Power Lower-

    Squats
    3-4 sets 5 reps

    hackSquats
    3-4 sets of 5 reps

    Rdls
    3-4 sets of 5 reps

    leg curls
    3-4 sets of 5 reps


    Standing toe press (not sure if thatís the name, its done on squat rack with something you put your toes up on.
    3-4 sets 6-8 reps

    -------
    Tuesday:

    Power Upper:
    Flat Bench
    4 sets of 5 reps
    Incline Bench
    4 sets of 5 reps

    4 sets deadlift
    4 sets of 5 reps bent over barbell rows (alternate every other week with tbar)

    Seated Military Press
    4 sets of 5 reps---should I move these to a different day?

    Standing Biceps Curls
    4 sets of 6-8 reps

    Close grip press
    4 sets of 6-8 reps
    ------
    Wed: Rest



    ---All hypertrophy sets are in the 10-12 rep range---

    Thurs:

    leg hypertrophy
    4 sets squat
    4 sets leg press
    4 sets rdls
    4 sets calf raises
    ------

    Friday:

    chest back Hypertrophy
    4 sets incline dumbell press
    4 sets wide grip flat bench
    4 sets hammerstrength chest press---change these to dips?
    4 sets flies


    4 sets Wide Grip Pullups

    4 sets t bar rows (alternate with bent over bb rows every other week)

    4 sets of seated cable rows

    4 sets lat pulldown


    Saturday: (This workout is split into two different sessions)

    Sat Morn:


    Shoulders Hypertrophy

    4 sets 5 seated barbell pressóshould I do heavy shoulders here? and do the rest hypertrophy?

    3 sets seated dumbell press

    4 sets side lats

    4 sets shrugs
    4 sets rear delts


    Saturday later: Probably later afternoonish, early evening

    triceps

    4 sets skullcrush
    4 sets close grip
    4 sets rope pulldown
    4 sets tricep extension


    biceps
    3 sets bb curls
    3 sets preacher
    3 sets incline db curl
    3 sets hammer curl
    2 sets concentration curls ---take these out?
    2 sets 21s

    I appreciate any help.

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    Height weight experience?

    The protein intake is overkill and the CHO and/or fat intake is too low.

    My concerns:

    Over use of shoulder joint.

    Dead lifts day following squat day.

    Too much pushing work.
    Insufficient pulling work.

    Arms are an ancillary. Personally and with what I've seen in my clients, they do not need a separate day of work to grow.

    My solutions - Train movements not muscle groups.

    How about an upper and lower split.

    Day 1 upper: Power vertical (push press, heavy pull ups), hypertrophy horizontal (dumbbell presses, wide grip cable rows)
    Day 2 lower: Power deadlift, squat ancillary (split squat, pitcher squat, etc.)

    Day 3 upper: Power horizontal (barbell press, bent over/t-bar rows), hypertrophy vertical (seated over head dumbbell presses, lat pull downs/high rep chin ups)
    Day 4 lower: Power squat, deadlift ancillary (GHR, travelling lunge, single leg RLDL)

    Br
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    I personally like to split power days and hypertrophy days..helps me mentally. And I know in many cases arms dont need a separate day. However, I've tried a movement routine similar to what you have suggested. My arms only seem to grow when I give them their own day with high volume.

    6 foot, right now about 207lbs. Solid 2 years of lifting. 1rms are 300lb bench, 550 squat, 500 deadlift...

    As far as deadlifts following squat days...I am hardly ever sore in my legs after deadlifting. Its always my back. I don't know if this is because of the leg strength because my form is good..

    Yes I agree its alot of stress on the shoulder..wasn't sure how to get around that, and yes alot of pushing movements too..same problem.
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    When I was doing a similar program I did shoulder power during the upper body days. Your shoulder press may suffer a bit, but your hitting front delts with bench press, and rear delts with heavy rows... so for me it wasn't a big concern.

    I would do shoulder power on upper body power days, and rotate what I began with. And then I would do shoulders/back... chest/arms.... and lower body for hypertrophy

    All in all it will depend on what your trying to bring up... for me my chest was more of a concern b/c my delts were overdeveloped in comparison
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    Yeah my delts aren't that much of a concern has chest back and bis are. I might go back to chest and arms and just split it into two sessions.
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    any other suggestions?
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    Quote Originally Posted by castro10 View Post
    Zir Red what do you mean by ancillary? Good point about Train movements not muscle groups. I believe if you train movement the muscle growth typically will follow
    Basically a supplemental muscle group. In terms of strength, having strong mid-traps and rear delts is much, much more important than having big biceps.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rodja View Post
    Basically a supplemental muscle group. In terms of strength, having strong mid-traps and rear delts is much, much more important than having big biceps.
    Yes I know this but my biceps are lagging behind everything else. How then should I change it?
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    Quote Originally Posted by getbig89 View Post
    Yes I know this but my biceps are lagging behind everything else. How then should I change it?
    Chins and pullups. Lots of them.
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    incorporated on which days? ive got pull ups on back hypertrophy...chins too? or on bicep day?
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    Well, your Saturday session will probably be crap since your arms should be fatigued from your chest and back session. Honestly, incorporating your arm training into your other 2 upper body days will be your best bet.
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    I think this routine is overkill. I think u should pick. Do a strength routine or a hypertrophy routine. If u pick a strength routine, some of ur assistance work can be in hypertrophy rep ranges. Whatever u pick, just make sure it's something u can progress with. Less is more if ur doin it right.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rodja View Post
    Well, your Saturday session will probably be crap since your arms should be fatigued from your chest and back session. Honestly, incorporating your arm training into your other 2 upper body days will be your best bet.
    Yeah this was a concern as well..just not enough days in the week for rest with this routine. But how would I do that if its split into strength and hypertrophy. One upper day is all for strength, and it would be impossible to do all upper hypertrophy in one day.

    and bird- my main concern is hypertrophy. My strength isnt that bad. This routine just looked good because it could keep my strength progressing thus I could lift more weight on hypertrophy days.
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    You could do push, pull, lower body hypertrophy days.

    Or Horizontal, Vertical, Lowerbody hypertrophy days.
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    Quote Originally Posted by ZiR RED View Post
    You could do push, pull, lower body hypertrophy days.

    Or Horizontal, Vertical, Lowerbody hypertrophy days.
    What about power days then?

    and when you say push pull do you mean like chest/back/shoulders and the like bis and tris? grouping it like that?
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    For power stick to the 2-3 exercises for 3-4 sets, and 1-2 sets for ancillary movements.

    For the hypertrophy...movements..not muscles

    So push: chest presses, over head presses, triceps

    Pull: Pull ups, rows, rear delts, biceps

    Lower body: Self explanatory
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    Quote Originally Posted by ZiR RED View Post
    For power stick to the 2-3 exercises for 3-4 sets, and 1-2 sets for ancillary movements.

    For the hypertrophy...movements..not muscles

    So push: chest presses, over head presses, triceps

    Pull: Pull ups, rows, rear delts, biceps

    Lower body: Self explanatory
    So power, would be similar to what I have now. As for the hypetrophy, my only concern with splitting them like that is that by the time I hit the last movement, I will be fatigued from the previous exercises.
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    because for biceps I usually do 12-14 sets and I know I'd have to cut that down doing pushpull. It just seems to me that all the greats have done arms in their own separated day.
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    Quote Originally Posted by getbig89 View Post
    because for biceps I usually do 12-14 sets and I know I'd have to cut that down doing pushpull. It just seems to me that all the greats have done arms in their own separated day.
    What you want is a basic bodybuilding template. Strength is obviously not your main concern since you're worried about a trivial muscle such as biceps. The "greats" that you speak of were not concerned about their strength since it is not the primary concern of a bodybuilder.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rodja View Post
    What you want is a basic bodybuilding template. Strength is obviously not your main concern since you're worried about a trivial muscle such as biceps. The "greats" that you speak of were not concerned about their strength since it is not the primary concern of a bodybuilder.
    exactly, i feel like my strength is good enough to do a bodybuilding program for a while. but i came across the phat program which allowed for strength to progress while still focusing on hypertrophy..so I was trying to set up a solid program following those guidelines
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    could also rearrange the days like this:
    Day 1: Lower Power
    Day 2: Upper Power
    Day 3: Rest
    Day 4: Back and Shoulders Hypertrophy
    Day 5: Lower Body Hypertrophy
    Day 6: Chest and Arms Hypertrophy
    Day 7: Rest

    Again my only concern with this is the rest from day 6 to day 2 with chest and arms. if 2 full days is sufficient than im all for this scheduling, although I'm still considering using push/pull for hypertrophy even though I'm not fond of doing movements that involve that many body parts in the same day. Just seems like Intensity and volume go down..
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    ME Upper - monday (max effort bench)
    ME Lower - wed (max effort deads)
    RE Upper - friday
    RE Lower - monday

    I can go into further detail if needed, but that is the gist of it
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    Quote Originally Posted by msucurt View Post
    ME Upper - monday (max effort bench)
    ME Lower - wed (max effort deads)
    RE Upper - friday
    RE Lower - monday

    I can go into further detail if needed, but that is the gist of it
    Seems like a lot of volume for RE upper..
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    As far as the volume goes.....if you are matching volume to muscle mass, there is actually LESS muscle mass in the upper body (i.e.: lats, shoulders, pecs, and arms) than in the lower body (hips, legs).

    Br
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    Quote Originally Posted by ZiR RED View Post
    As far as the volume goes.....if you are matching volume to muscle mass, there is actually LESS muscle mass in the upper body (i.e.: lats, shoulders, pecs, and arms) than in the lower body (hips, legs).

    Br
    Yes I understand that. I'm putting more volume with upper body because my upper body needs a lot of work, vs my lower body which I am very pleased with.
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    Unless anyone has any other suggestions I think I will keep the workout the same, add in some close grip chins, but rearrange the days like this:

    Day 1: Lower Power
    Day 2: Upper Power
    Day 3: Rest
    Day 4: Back and Shoulders Hypertrophy
    Day 5: Lower Body Hypertrophy
    Day 6: Chest and Arms Hypertrophy
    Day 7: Rest
  

  
 

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