Drew up a new routine, comments? critique?

[jtterrible]

Monday Chest/Biceps

Straight Bench 5x5
Chin ups 3x11
Incline Bench 5x5
Preacher DB Curls 5x5
Flat DB Flyes 5x5
Hammer Curls 5x5
Decline Bench 5x5
Abs

Tuesday Back

Lat Bar Pulldown 5x5
Barbell Row 5x5
Deadlift 5x5
DB Pullover 5x5
Pull Ups 3x11
Squats 5x5
Abs

Thursday Deltoid/Triceps

Military Press 5x5
Close Grip Bench 5x5
Lateral Raise 5x5
Tricep Pushdown 5x5
Reverse Flyes 5x5
Tricep Dips 3x11
Abs

Friday Legs

Leg Extensions 5x5
Hack Squat 5x5
Calf Raises 5x5
Squat 5x5
Deadlifts 5x5
DB Lunges or Weighted Box jumps 3x11
Abs

Saturday/Sunday/Wednesday - rest

The 5x5's are progressive sets. Due to a possible strain in my lower abdominal strain I will be doing lower weights with the squats/deads until I have recouped. 5 minute cardio at the start of each day.

 

[jtterrible]

is it balanced enough?.. or am I hitting too much?.. too many reps??

 

[ep3fka]

looks like an ass ton of volume

 

[jtterrible]

that's what I was thinking.. but with the progressions it would stress more weight on each group.. so I'm not sure..

 

[ZiR RED]

Too much direct arm work.

Not enough pulling work.

Poor leg exercise selection (squats last, deadlifts right after squats). Where is the hamstring work: rumanian deadlifts

Would like to see more bilateral exercises (dumbbell work, single leg squat work).

Need to work the core, external shoulder rotators, scapula retracters/depressors, hip abductors, etc.

Br

 

[jtterrible]

Too much direct arm work.

Not enough pulling work.

Poor leg exercise selection (squats last, deadlifts right after squats). Where is the hamstring work: rumanian deadlifts

Would like to see more bilateral exercises (dumbbell work, single leg squat work).

Need to work the core, external shoulder rotators, scapula retracters/depressors, hip abductors, etc.

Br

Which day needs more pulling?

did you mean Unilateral movements?.. because I have more Bilateral movements than Unilateral in here

Aren't the scapula retractors/depressors worked during the Rowing movements?

Abs would be core thought.. it's more than crunches I do a variation on the Ab Ripper X routine.

Thank you for the input I appreciate it. here is the revision.

Monday Chest/Biceps

Straight Bench 5x5
Chin ups 3x11
Incline Bench 5x5
Preacher DB Curls 5x5
Flat DB Flyes 5x5
Hammer Curls 5x5
Decline Bench 5x5
Abs

Tuesday Back

Lat Bar Pulldown 5x5
Bent Over Row 5x5
Deadlift 5x5
DB Pullover 5x5
Pull Ups 3x11
Squats 5x5
Abs

Thursday Deltoid/Triceps

DB Cuban Press 5x5
Military Press 5x5
Close Grip Bench 5x5
Lateral Raise 5x5
Tricep Pushdown 5x5
Reverse Flyes 5x5
Tricep Dips 3x11
Abs

Friday Legs

Leg Extensions 5x5
Hack Squat 5x5
Romanian Deadlifts 5x5
Calf Raises 5x5
Squat 5x5
Side Lunges 3x11
Deadlifts 5x5
DB Lunges or Weighted Box jumps 3x11
Abs

Saturday/Sunday/Wednesday - rest

 

[ZiR RED]

Yes, unilateral, sorry. Been a long day.

You have 7-8 pushing movements between chest presses/flyes and over head presses/dips/lateral raises.

However, you only have 4 pulling movements.

You need more middle trapezius/rhomboid and rear delts to balance all this out. Right now your back work is very lat/teres dominated. While the rowing will work these areas, more is needed to balance out the scapula protraction movements.

Wide overhand grip rows to the chest keeping the elbows out will take care of a majority of it. Some face pulls or band pulls will be good too.

For the lower trapezius scapula depressions and scapations will work. 2-3 sets of each once or twice a week.

Finally, you should be doing external rotations to balance out all the internal rotator (pecs and lats) work at the shoulder joint. 2 sets of 12-15 reps 2-3x a week with resistance bands or a cable.

There is a lot more to your core than your abdominals. In fact, the majority of abdominal movements done in teh bodybuilding community actually work the hip flexors and if not matched with hip flexor stretching and glute activation, will do more harm then good. Add in some medicine ball slams, side med ball slams, wood choppers/other rotational, as well as bridging work to work the local core.

Finally, I think performing leg extensions before your large movements on a regular basis will do more harm then good. You will not be able to handle as much weight, and will not reap the same benefits (over load and the hormonal response) from these large movements such as squats. I still think you would be better off to choose 1-2 major leg exercises (squats and rdl type movement) and do those first with 5 or 6 sets, then fill in the rest with 2-3 sets of unilateral movements.

Thanks for being open to constructive criticism..its refreshing to haveone someone ask for advice then not become defensive and condescending when they aren't told exactly what they want to hear.

br

 

[crux]

My question is why you're doing chin ups with chest/bi's the day before back day. My opinion would be to move bi's to back day so that they are not fried the day before you need to do pulling movements.

 

[jtterrible]

so I should add a wide grip cable row and perhaps a standing barbel row to back day. And you think I should cut the reps from the 5x5 progression and just do a 3x5 or perhaps a 5/3/1?

and move the leg extensions to after the large movements? perhaps, if you find time, could you pm me a variation of my workout that you think would be balanced enough, but with explanations of the changes. I just am here to learn more, you really seem to know what you're talking about and I'm glad to have you helping

It'd be stupid to post a routine with requests for pointers if you already think it's perfect and are determined to defend it to the death lol..

and the chin ups on Bi day because they use more Bicep involvement and I'm hoping I recover enough to do the pull ups the following day. Else I might just need to swap the days around like back monday tri's/delts tuesday chest/bi's thursday and legs friday. I'd rather not use a large group of muscles like that and a small group on the same day because of how much it taxes your whole system.. back day, if done right, is really taxing on my your body.

 

[rankbull]

and the chin ups on Bi day because they use more Bicep involvement and I'm hoping I recover enough to do the pull ups the following day. Else I might just need to swap the days around like back monday tri's/delts tuesday chest/bi's thursday and legs friday. I'd rather not use a large group of muscles like that and a small group on the same day because of how much it taxes your whole system.. back day, if done right, is really taxing on my your body.

Pretty much all basic/foundation bodybuilding exercises are either a push or a pull. I like to think of my split more as a push day (chest/tri's), pull day (back/bi's), and a leg/shoulder day. Then when I get tired of it, I switch it up for only a short period. Then go back to the same basic concept because I believe it's really the right way to workout (and because an NCAA athletic trainer told me to)...

Try to build your routine around these concepts. Biceps on chest day?? That's almost unheard of where I'm from, but hey, to each his own I guess...

 

[jtterrible]

Pretty much all basic/foundation bodybuilding exercises are either a push or a pull. I like to think of my split more as a push day (chest/tri's), pull day (back/bi's), and a leg/shoulder day. Then when I get tired of it, I switch it up for only a short period. Then go back to the same basic concept because I believe it's really the right way to workout (and because an NCAA athletic trainer told me to)...

Try to build your routine around these concepts. Biceps on chest day?? That's almost unheard of where I'm from, but hey, to each his own I guess...

The problem I've had with trainer's is that each has their own bias as to what has worked for them. They then use it on their clients and it works as well, but they don't seem to look into alternatives because of the whole "if it's not broke don't fix it" thing. They may have a point, but other things work just as well and they haven't really ventured out of the box. Some do, but most don't and have great understanding in the thing they love, but little in other fields of training.

I've been doing chest/bi split for a few months and I love the pumps I'm getting. I've never read much on a push/pull split base, but I will now thank you. lol.

I like my split a lot actually I've gotten great gains on the Blood and Guts routine, but now I hit a wall and I need to change up a bit so I figured I'd try on my own. I am aiming for Mass more than strength, but strength is nice too.

 

[rankbull]

The problem I've had with trainer's is that each has their own bias as to what has worked for them. They then use it on their clients and it works as well, but they don't seem to look into alternatives because of the whole "if it's not broke don't fix it" thing. They may have a point, but other things work just as well and they haven't really ventured out of the box. Some do, but most don't and have great understanding in the thing they love, but little in other fields of training.

I've been doing chest/bi split for a few months and I love the pumps I'm getting. I've never read much on a push/pull split base, but I will now thank you. lol.

I like my split a lot actually I've gotten great gains on the Blood and Guts routine, but now I hit a wall and I need to change up a bit so I figured I'd try on my own. I am aiming for Mass more than strength, but strength is nice too.

I agree that if you're looking for definition and mass, a more mixed routine is better... And, I've been looking at that blood and guts routine for my next mix-up, I really like the way it's set up and think it would be good for a post-bulk workout regime.

 

[ZiR RED]

Via personal experience, experience working with 100's of clients, reading what others have talked about, and by reading and critiquing of primary scientific research, i suggest each muscle should be trained at least once every 5 days.

There are several ways to do this, but I think the easiest is through an upper/lower split, emphasizing one movement plane on one day and another on the other day.

For example:

Lower 1: Squat emphasis (5x5), squat ancillary 1 (pitcher squat or split squat) 3x8, squat ancillary 2 (single leg rumanian deadlift, lying leg curl alternating legs) 3x10, core and stabilizer work

Upper 1: Vertical Emphasis: Over head press and pull ups (5x5 ish), shrugs (3x5ish), horizontal ancillary work (resisted push ups and supine rows), shoulder ancillary work (rotator cuff, lateral rasies,scapula depressions)

Lower 2: Deadlift emphasis (5x5), deadlift ancillary 1 (lunges, either traveling or stationary) 3x8-10, deadlift ancillary 2 (glute ham raise, glute hip barbell bridge, hip pull through) 3x10, core and stabilizer work

Upper 2: Horizontal emphasis: chest press and bent over barbell/t-bar rows (over hand grip) 5x5, vertical ancillary work (pull downs, single arm Over head presses) 3x8, shoulder ancillary work (scaptions, external rotations, face pulls, etc.) 3 x12

Br

 

[jtterrible]

well... without scrapping my whole routine.. ?.. lol

 

[jlm25]

Pretty much all basic/foundation bodybuilding exercises are either a push or a pull. I like to think of my split more as a push day (chest/tri's), pull day (back/bi's), and a leg/shoulder day. Then when I get tired of it, I switch it up for only a short period. Then go back to the same basic concept because I believe it's really the right way to workout (and because an NCAA athletic trainer told me to)...

Try to build your routine around these concepts. Biceps on chest day?? That's almost unheard of where I'm from, but hey, to each his own I guess...

I don't feel like it is very valid to say that it is the "right way" to work out. I do not see the point in training triceps on chest day nor biceps on back day. If you've done 3-4 chest exercises and did them to the maximum capability. Then your triceps are going to be completely burnt out. How are they suppose to grow? Beating a dead horse doesn't do much.

 

[jtterrible]

so I guess that I'll be doing the revision of it... wish me luck.. this will be intense

 

[rankbull]

I don't feel like it is very valid to say that it is the "right way" to work out. I do not see the point in training triceps on chest day nor biceps on back day. If you've done 3-4 chest exercises and did them to the maximum capability. Then your triceps are going to be completely burnt out. How are they suppose to grow? Beating a dead horse doesn't do much.

I think you misunderstood me a bit.

Chest/tri's or Back/bi's is different for me than a chest AND tri routine or a back AND bi routine. A back/bi routine means (for me) training both muscle groups at the same time with different compound exercises. I am a firm believer that targeting muscle groups as a whole is MUCH more efficient than targeting certain muscle groups individually.

If you train your back/bi's with a routine involving barbell rows, deads, lat pulldowns, t-bar wide/narrow grip etc... and you still have enough strength at the end to do some curls your either not lifting enough weight or you have incorrect form...

Why are you worried this kind of routine will "burn out" your muscles so badly? It does exactly that and that's why it works.

 

[ZiR RED]

I think you misunderstood me a bit.

Chest/tri's or Back/bi's is different for me than a chest AND tri routine or a back AND bi routine. A back/bi routine means (for me) training both muscle groups at the same time with different compound exercises. I am a firm believer that targeting muscle groups as a whole is MUCH more efficient than targeting certain muscle groups individually.

Yes! You got it. It's about training movements not muscles. This is a major concept in most advanced bodybuilding/strength routines and a staple of collegiate and professional strength coaches, as you eluded to earlier saying: "because an NCAA athletic trainer told me to"

If you train your back/bi's with a routine involving barbell rows, deads, lat pulldowns, t-bar wide/narrow grip etc... and you still have enough strength at the end to do some curls your either not lifting enough weight or you have incorrect form..

.

I would actually argue the opposite. Yes, biceps play a role in those movements, however, if they are "burned out" after, you may not be pulling with the back musculature (lats, teres, traps and rhomboids), but rather the limbs (biceps, brachialis, brachiodoralis, etc.). This is not to say the arms do not get heavily worked, but you should still be able to manage a few sets of curls after..which in fact, is all you need.

Or...you are just poorly conditioned.

Br

 

[rankbull]

Yes! You got it. It's about training movements not muscles. This is a major concept in most advanced bodybuilding/strength routines and a staple of collegiate and professional strength coaches, as you eluded to earlier saying: "because an NCAA athletic trainer told me to"

.

I would actually argue the opposite. Yes, biceps play a role in those movements, however, if they are "burned out" after, you may not be pulling with the back musculature (lats, teres, traps and rhomboids), but rather the limbs (biceps, brachialis, brachiodoralis, etc.). This is not to say the arms do not get heavily worked, but you should still be able to manage a few sets of curls after..which in fact, is all you need.

Or...you are just poorly conditioned.

Br

What I'm trying to say is, why finish with curls when you can finish with close-grip underhand pull-ups or close-grip seated cable rows?

Curls => GTL

 

[ZiR RED]

Curls => GTL

hahaha...agreed