I'm still having alittle shoulder pain, is it wise to do the overhead press?

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    Quote Originally Posted by team180 View Post
    Nothing overhead.... You wil find out that you dont need that much overhead pressing to pick so,eone up either.. Dont wanna give too much away
    Agreed. If you have pain then laterals, bent over rows, upright rows, chest presses, etc will suffice for delt growth. Just concentrate on healing up and then go back to starting out light on the overhead movements and work your way back up to the heavier weight. The broom stick stretching incorporated in DC training works AMAZING btw. Might wanna look into that.

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    Quote Originally Posted by bassgod272 View Post
    Agreed. If you have pain then laterals, bent over rows, upright rows, chest presses, etc will suffice for delt growth. Just concentrate on healing up and then go back to starting out light on the overhead movements and work your way back up to the heavier weight. The broom stick stretching incorporated in DC training works AMAZING btw. Might wanna look into that.
    I do that stretch already, but I use a belt. upright rows are out for me though, that's how I hurt my shoulder in the first place.
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    Quote Originally Posted by DerickVonD View Post
    I do that stretch already, but I use a belt. upright rows are out for me though, that's how I hurt my shoulder in the first place.
    oh, ok yea definitely don't do those then lol.
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    Wresting is about functionality. Never will you be pushing someone over your head from a seated position. In fact, you will be utilizing mostly legs in order to get them over head. Having a poor shoulder ROM, however, will not allow you to hold them over your head for long.

    You need to strengthen your mid traps, rhomboids, and scapula depressors in order to achieve this.

    Br
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    Quote Originally Posted by ZiR RED View Post
    Wresting is about functionality. Never will you be pushing someone over your head from a seated position. In fact, you will be utilizing mostly legs in order to get them over head. Having a poor shoulder ROM, however, will not allow you to hold them over your head for long.

    You need to strengthen your mid traps, rhomboids, and scapula depressors in order to achieve this.

    Br
    Well I'm going to continue to do those stretches I posted, read those articles you posed and wait 2 months before I even try to overhead press and substitute in front raises. Do you think it's okay to front squat in the mean time, since the bar is over the shoulders? It's the only way I can squat right now because of flexibility issues, but I am able to front squat with good form.
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    I would not do any front raises. Based on what you're telling me, there is a muscular imbalance between your anterior > posterior deltoids. Do scapation exercises.

    I see no problem with front squatting. You can use a modified grip (arms crossed) if you feel too much pressure on your shoulder.

    Br
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    Quote Originally Posted by ZiR RED View Post
    I would not do any front raises. Based on what you're telling me, there is a muscular imbalance between your anterior > posterior deltoids. Do scapation exercises.

    I see no problem with front squatting. You can use a modified grip (arms crossed) if you feel too much pressure on your shoulder.

    Br
    So are you saying that front raises will prevent my shoulder from healing or that at this stage they are pretty much pointless?
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    Quote Originally Posted by DerickVonD View Post
    So are you saying that front raises will prevent my shoulder from healing or that at this stage they are pretty much pointless?

    Both, they will exascberate (make worse) the muscular imbalances you currently have that played a role in the injury and prevent a full ROM. Second, you get plenty of anterior delt work and scapula protraction work in your chest pressing movements.

    Br
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    Quote Originally Posted by ZiR RED View Post
    Both, they will exascberate (make worse) the muscular imbalances you currently have that played a role in the injury and prevent a full ROM. Second, you get plenty of anterior delt work and scapula protraction work in your chest pressing movements.

    Br
    Just curious, what makes it sound like I have an imbalance rather than say inflexibility? I didn't have shoulder pain at all until I started doing upright rows. I later read some people can't do upright rows, something to do with their shoulder joint and some kind of rotation. I wish I never did upright rows.
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    Muscular imblances are what usually cause inflexibility. The fact that you cannot lie on your back and bring your arm to the floor without bending lends me to hypothesize that you're shoulders are brought forward. This is due to overactive anterior delts, pec major and pec minor. On the flip side, the muscles opposing these are underactive (weak), being the lower traps, mid traps, rhomboids and rear delts. Thus, you should minimize work done to the overactive muscles to just enough to maintain strength and increase work on the underactive muscles.

    Br
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    I underwent shoulder decompression for impingement a month ago. Per the physical therapist and sports Orthopaedist, the overhead press is the worst movement for any type of shoulder issues. Stick to lateral raises and machine lateral raises.
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    Quote Originally Posted by ZiR RED View Post
    Muscular imblances are what usually cause inflexibility. The fact that you cannot lie on your back and bring your arm to the floor without bending lends me to hypothesize that you're shoulders are brought forward. This is due to overactive anterior delts, pec major and pec minor. On the flip side, the muscles opposing these are underactive (weak), being the lower traps, mid traps, rhomboids and rear delts. Thus, you should minimize work done to the overactive muscles to just enough to maintain strength and increase work on the underactive muscles.

    Br
    okay thanks. I figure I'll just do those stretches and on shoulder days I'll just do my lateral raises, rear delt raises and shrugs. Once my arms can touch the ground and the pain goes away, which I hope happen around the same time, I'll start doing the military press with light weight. How long should I wait to do overhead presses once my shoulder heals and the imbalance is fixed? I was thinking about waiting an extra two weeks once the pain goes away, or do you think it's a good idea to wait an extra month after the pain is gone? Also do I need to take any exercises off of my chest day? This is what my chest day looks like.
    Bench
    Inclined DB press
    Inclined DB flyes
    Db Lying Triceps Extension
    close grip bench
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    Make sure you are doing work for the LOWER trapezius and mid traps/rhomboids. This should be your focus, not upper traps.

    Search for scapula depressions and scapation exercises for the lower traps.
    For the middle, face pulls, wide grip rows with an overhand grip, high pulley rows with bilateral cables, and of course, rear delt type movements.

    I think the flyes are over kill, and cause too much protraction. Make sure you keep your shoulder blades pulled back on the presses.

    As for time off and before you start doing over heads again, you'll have to feel it out. No way to give a definitive answer.

    Br
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    Quote Originally Posted by ZiR RED View Post
    Make sure you are doing work for the LOWER trapezius and mid traps/rhomboids. This should be your focus, not upper traps.

    Search for scapula depressions and scapation exercises for the lower traps.
    For the middle, face pulls, wide grip rows with an overhand grip, high pulley rows with bilateral cables, and of course, rear delt type movements.

    I think the flyes are over kill, and cause too much protraction. Make sure you keep your shoulder blades pulled back on the presses.

    As for time off and before you start doing over heads again, you'll have to feel it out. No way to give a definitive answer.

    Br
    Okay so just give up flys? I'll need to get a band for facepulls. I did scaptions for a bit and they felt very uncomfortable and I never progress on them, although idk if it's an exercise I'm suppose to progress on. I'll be moving into a new house soon and can't make it to the gym. I'm going to make a make shift tbar and I have a bench/squat station and dumbbell handles and I'm also getting a trap bar for shrugs. Is there another exercise I can do besides scaptions or am I stuck with them? Also I love doing rows on a tbar but HATE them with the barbell. I've been doing one arm rows.
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    Nope, you need to be doing scapation exercises.

    When doing rows, you need a wide and overhand grip to work the middle trapezius and rhomboids. Close grip or single arm arm rows work more of the lats.

    Br
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    Quote Originally Posted by ZiR RED View Post
    Nope, you need to be doing scapation exercises.

    When doing rows, you need a wide and overhand grip to work the middle trapezius and rhomboids. Close grip or single arm arm rows work more of the lats.

    Br
    Are my lats going to still get worked? I'm not doing any lat specific exercises, Should I just do them with a wide grip always or is it good to alternate to get in some good lat work?
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    Your lats and teres will still be involved in the movement. Look into shoulder extensions with a rope. This is a good lat exercise as well as a good prehab-rehab movement for the shoulder joint.

    Br
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    not it is not especially if your not useing proper range of motion for your shoulder joint ( which most people do not use).
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    Quote Originally Posted by Presa View Post
    I underwent shoulder decompression for impingement a month ago. Per the physical therapist and sports Orthopaedist, the overhead press is the worst movement for any type of shoulder issues. Stick to lateral raises and machine lateral raises.
    I had this same surgery almost a year ago, and I would say it still doesn't feel "normal". Bad thing is, my other shoulder is now having the same type of impingement, and I know for a fact that it was overhead presses that caused it. I'm kicking myself for doing overhead presses again, but it was always one of my stronger lifts that really got my shoulders and neck really thick and strong. Now I'm sticking to just mostly barbell rows and shrugs - no overhead presses for me anymore.

    Hopefully I can get my other shoulder back to health without surgery, cause surgery just sucks. I'm not too optimistic at this point, tho.
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    Quote Originally Posted by bassgod272 View Post
    Agreed. If you have pain then laterals, bent over rows, upright rows, chest presses, etc will suffice for delt growth. Just concentrate on healing up and then go back to starting out light on the overhead movements and work your way back up to the heavier weight. The broom stick stretching incorporated in DC training works AMAZING btw. Might wanna look into that.
    I noticed when I did the broom stick stretches, that I'm bending my elbows. When I try doing them with my arms straight I can get my arms alittle past my head. No wonder I can't do back squats yet. I really hope this issue goes away soon.
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    Quote Originally Posted by DerickVonD View Post
    I noticed when I did the broom stick stretches, that I'm bending my elbows. When I try doing them with my arms straight I can get my arms alittle past my head. No wonder I can't do back squats yet. I really hope this issue goes away soon.
    Do you feel pain doing the broomstick stretches?? You might have mega tightness in your lower pec's.
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    Quote Originally Posted by lonewolf0420 View Post
    Do you feel pain doing the broomstick stretches?? You might have mega tightness in your lower pec's.
    Tightness in my chest once I pass my head. So, what does this mean, my problem is ever worse than I thought?
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    Quote Originally Posted by ZiR RED View Post
    Make sure you are doing work for the LOWER trapezius and mid traps/rhomboids. This should be your focus, not upper traps.

    Search for scapula depressions and scapation exercises for the lower traps.
    For the middle, face pulls, wide grip rows with an overhand grip, high pulley rows with bilateral cables, and of course, rear delt type movements.

    I think the flyes are over kill, and cause too much protraction. Make sure you keep your shoulder blades pulled back on the presses.

    As for time off and before you start doing over heads again, you'll have to feel it out. No way to give a definitive answer.

    Br
    Wouldn't it be better if I took off db presses instead, since Flys and bench press are two different movements.
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    Quote Originally Posted by DerickVonD View Post
    Wouldn't it be better if I took off db presses instead, since Flys and bench press are two different movements.
    I have awful shoulders and I was always going to the chiropractor for shoulder pain. After several x ray and MRIs showing nothing negative.... my chiropractor told me to try to work thru the pain. A good warm up and lots of fish oil I push thru the pain and I'm good. Today I did 3 sets of 100lb DB shoulder presses. I'm also 23 and can NEVER use barbells without sever pain the next day.. So IMO talk to your doc get some x rays and go from there.

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    Quote Originally Posted by DerickVonD View Post
    Tightness in my chest once I pass my head. So, what does this mean, my problem is ever worse than I thought?
    You need to work on stretching out your lower pec's. I found doorway chest stretches to be very effective (http://www.exrx.net/Stretches/ChestGeneral/Doorway.html)

    Keep at the broom stretches. Start with a very wide grip and slowly work your way in. Its not gonna happen over night. Try them at least once a day.
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    Flys are a terrible exercise for someone in your condition. They will work the serratus and front delts (exactly what we want to cut down on) more than the pecs, they will also further loosen the anterior joint capsule (which I would estimate has hyperlaxity). Stick to flat dumbbell or bench presses. Keep your shoulder blades squeezed together, drop all fly work for the time being.

    The doorway stretch that lonewolf mentioned is really good, so is the sleeper stretch for the posterior shoulder capsule.

    Br

    Quote Originally Posted by DerickVonD View Post
    Wouldn't it be better if I took off db presses instead, since Flys and bench press are two different movements.
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    Quote Originally Posted by ZiR RED View Post
    Flys are a terrible exercise for someone in your condition. They will work the serratus and front delts (exactly what we want to cut down on) more than the pecs, they will also further loosen the anterior joint capsule (which I would estimate has hyperlaxity). Stick to flat dumbbell or bench presses. Keep your shoulder blades squeezed together, drop all fly work for the time being.

    The doorway stretch that lonewolf mentioned is really good, so is the sleeper stretch for the posterior shoulder capsule.

    Br
    what about close grip bench presses? I guess I'm going to stop inclined db presses now for the time being too. Once my shoulder heal is there any reason to even go back to inclined db presses?
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    You could try reverse grip presses for chest development. Just make sure your shoulder blades are retracted.

    Br
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    Quote Originally Posted by ZiR RED View Post
    You could try reverse grip presses for chest development. Just make sure your shoulder blades are retracted.

    Br
    I'm doing the close grip bench to build my triceps. My chest and tricep day currently looks like this:
    bench press
    inclined db press at 30 degree
    inclined flys at 30 degree
    lying tricep extensions
    close grip bench
    So would it be good to switch to this for the time being
    bench
    lying tricep extensions
    close grip bench
    and just take out db bench presses for now.
    The reason I was wondering if I should ever go back to db bench pressing is because of fear of creating an imbalance again once it goes away, by doing too many exercises that work the front delts.
    Just to let you know I do lateral raises like this
    YouTube - Bodybuilding Exercises : Bodybuilding: Lateral Raise
    but unlike the guy in the video I don't let my elbows go above my shoulders. I feel I get a nice pump doing them this way and its easier for me than lifting the weight up at my sides.
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    Routine and how you describe the laterals are good.
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