I'm still having alittle shoulder pain, is it wise to do the overhead press?

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    I underwent shoulder decompression for impingement a month ago. Per the physical therapist and sports Orthopaedist, the overhead press is the worst movement for any type of shoulder issues. Stick to lateral raises and machine lateral raises.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ZiR RED View Post
    Muscular imblances are what usually cause inflexibility. The fact that you cannot lie on your back and bring your arm to the floor without bending lends me to hypothesize that you're shoulders are brought forward. This is due to overactive anterior delts, pec major and pec minor. On the flip side, the muscles opposing these are underactive (weak), being the lower traps, mid traps, rhomboids and rear delts. Thus, you should minimize work done to the overactive muscles to just enough to maintain strength and increase work on the underactive muscles.

    Br
    okay thanks. I figure I'll just do those stretches and on shoulder days I'll just do my lateral raises, rear delt raises and shrugs. Once my arms can touch the ground and the pain goes away, which I hope happen around the same time, I'll start doing the military press with light weight. How long should I wait to do overhead presses once my shoulder heals and the imbalance is fixed? I was thinking about waiting an extra two weeks once the pain goes away, or do you think it's a good idea to wait an extra month after the pain is gone? Also do I need to take any exercises off of my chest day? This is what my chest day looks like.
    Bench
    Inclined DB press
    Inclined DB flyes
    Db Lying Triceps Extension
    close grip bench
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    Make sure you are doing work for the LOWER trapezius and mid traps/rhomboids. This should be your focus, not upper traps.

    Search for scapula depressions and scapation exercises for the lower traps.
    For the middle, face pulls, wide grip rows with an overhand grip, high pulley rows with bilateral cables, and of course, rear delt type movements.

    I think the flyes are over kill, and cause too much protraction. Make sure you keep your shoulder blades pulled back on the presses.

    As for time off and before you start doing over heads again, you'll have to feel it out. No way to give a definitive answer.

    Br
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    Quote Originally Posted by ZiR RED View Post
    Make sure you are doing work for the LOWER trapezius and mid traps/rhomboids. This should be your focus, not upper traps.

    Search for scapula depressions and scapation exercises for the lower traps.
    For the middle, face pulls, wide grip rows with an overhand grip, high pulley rows with bilateral cables, and of course, rear delt type movements.

    I think the flyes are over kill, and cause too much protraction. Make sure you keep your shoulder blades pulled back on the presses.

    As for time off and before you start doing over heads again, you'll have to feel it out. No way to give a definitive answer.

    Br
    Okay so just give up flys? I'll need to get a band for facepulls. I did scaptions for a bit and they felt very uncomfortable and I never progress on them, although idk if it's an exercise I'm suppose to progress on. I'll be moving into a new house soon and can't make it to the gym. I'm going to make a make shift tbar and I have a bench/squat station and dumbbell handles and I'm also getting a trap bar for shrugs. Is there another exercise I can do besides scaptions or am I stuck with them? Also I love doing rows on a tbar but HATE them with the barbell. I've been doing one arm rows.
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    Nope, you need to be doing scapation exercises.

    When doing rows, you need a wide and overhand grip to work the middle trapezius and rhomboids. Close grip or single arm arm rows work more of the lats.

    Br
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    Quote Originally Posted by ZiR RED View Post
    Nope, you need to be doing scapation exercises.

    When doing rows, you need a wide and overhand grip to work the middle trapezius and rhomboids. Close grip or single arm arm rows work more of the lats.

    Br
    Are my lats going to still get worked? I'm not doing any lat specific exercises, Should I just do them with a wide grip always or is it good to alternate to get in some good lat work?
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    Your lats and teres will still be involved in the movement. Look into shoulder extensions with a rope. This is a good lat exercise as well as a good prehab-rehab movement for the shoulder joint.

    Br
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    not it is not especially if your not useing proper range of motion for your shoulder joint ( which most people do not use).
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    Quote Originally Posted by Presa View Post
    I underwent shoulder decompression for impingement a month ago. Per the physical therapist and sports Orthopaedist, the overhead press is the worst movement for any type of shoulder issues. Stick to lateral raises and machine lateral raises.
    I had this same surgery almost a year ago, and I would say it still doesn't feel "normal". Bad thing is, my other shoulder is now having the same type of impingement, and I know for a fact that it was overhead presses that caused it. I'm kicking myself for doing overhead presses again, but it was always one of my stronger lifts that really got my shoulders and neck really thick and strong. Now I'm sticking to just mostly barbell rows and shrugs - no overhead presses for me anymore.

    Hopefully I can get my other shoulder back to health without surgery, cause surgery just sucks. I'm not too optimistic at this point, tho.
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    Quote Originally Posted by bassgod272 View Post
    Agreed. If you have pain then laterals, bent over rows, upright rows, chest presses, etc will suffice for delt growth. Just concentrate on healing up and then go back to starting out light on the overhead movements and work your way back up to the heavier weight. The broom stick stretching incorporated in DC training works AMAZING btw. Might wanna look into that.
    I noticed when I did the broom stick stretches, that I'm bending my elbows. When I try doing them with my arms straight I can get my arms alittle past my head. No wonder I can't do back squats yet. I really hope this issue goes away soon.
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    Quote Originally Posted by DerickVonD View Post
    I noticed when I did the broom stick stretches, that I'm bending my elbows. When I try doing them with my arms straight I can get my arms alittle past my head. No wonder I can't do back squats yet. I really hope this issue goes away soon.
    Do you feel pain doing the broomstick stretches?? You might have mega tightness in your lower pec's.
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    Quote Originally Posted by lonewolf0420 View Post
    Do you feel pain doing the broomstick stretches?? You might have mega tightness in your lower pec's.
    Tightness in my chest once I pass my head. So, what does this mean, my problem is ever worse than I thought?
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    Quote Originally Posted by ZiR RED View Post
    Make sure you are doing work for the LOWER trapezius and mid traps/rhomboids. This should be your focus, not upper traps.

    Search for scapula depressions and scapation exercises for the lower traps.
    For the middle, face pulls, wide grip rows with an overhand grip, high pulley rows with bilateral cables, and of course, rear delt type movements.

    I think the flyes are over kill, and cause too much protraction. Make sure you keep your shoulder blades pulled back on the presses.

    As for time off and before you start doing over heads again, you'll have to feel it out. No way to give a definitive answer.

    Br
    Wouldn't it be better if I took off db presses instead, since Flys and bench press are two different movements.
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    Quote Originally Posted by DerickVonD View Post
    Wouldn't it be better if I took off db presses instead, since Flys and bench press are two different movements.
    I have awful shoulders and I was always going to the chiropractor for shoulder pain. After several x ray and MRIs showing nothing negative.... my chiropractor told me to try to work thru the pain. A good warm up and lots of fish oil I push thru the pain and I'm good. Today I did 3 sets of 100lb DB shoulder presses. I'm also 23 and can NEVER use barbells without sever pain the next day.. So IMO talk to your doc get some x rays and go from there.

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    Quote Originally Posted by DerickVonD View Post
    Tightness in my chest once I pass my head. So, what does this mean, my problem is ever worse than I thought?
    You need to work on stretching out your lower pec's. I found doorway chest stretches to be very effective (http://www.exrx.net/Stretches/ChestGeneral/Doorway.html)

    Keep at the broom stretches. Start with a very wide grip and slowly work your way in. Its not gonna happen over night. Try them at least once a day.
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    Flys are a terrible exercise for someone in your condition. They will work the serratus and front delts (exactly what we want to cut down on) more than the pecs, they will also further loosen the anterior joint capsule (which I would estimate has hyperlaxity). Stick to flat dumbbell or bench presses. Keep your shoulder blades squeezed together, drop all fly work for the time being.

    The doorway stretch that lonewolf mentioned is really good, so is the sleeper stretch for the posterior shoulder capsule.

    Br

    Quote Originally Posted by DerickVonD View Post
    Wouldn't it be better if I took off db presses instead, since Flys and bench press are two different movements.
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    Quote Originally Posted by ZiR RED View Post
    Flys are a terrible exercise for someone in your condition. They will work the serratus and front delts (exactly what we want to cut down on) more than the pecs, they will also further loosen the anterior joint capsule (which I would estimate has hyperlaxity). Stick to flat dumbbell or bench presses. Keep your shoulder blades squeezed together, drop all fly work for the time being.

    The doorway stretch that lonewolf mentioned is really good, so is the sleeper stretch for the posterior shoulder capsule.

    Br
    what about close grip bench presses? I guess I'm going to stop inclined db presses now for the time being too. Once my shoulder heal is there any reason to even go back to inclined db presses?
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    You could try reverse grip presses for chest development. Just make sure your shoulder blades are retracted.

    Br
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    Quote Originally Posted by ZiR RED View Post
    You could try reverse grip presses for chest development. Just make sure your shoulder blades are retracted.

    Br
    I'm doing the close grip bench to build my triceps. My chest and tricep day currently looks like this:
    bench press
    inclined db press at 30 degree
    inclined flys at 30 degree
    lying tricep extensions
    close grip bench
    So would it be good to switch to this for the time being
    bench
    lying tricep extensions
    close grip bench
    and just take out db bench presses for now.
    The reason I was wondering if I should ever go back to db bench pressing is because of fear of creating an imbalance again once it goes away, by doing too many exercises that work the front delts.
    Just to let you know I do lateral raises like this
    YouTube - Bodybuilding Exercises : Bodybuilding: Lateral Raise
    but unlike the guy in the video I don't let my elbows go above my shoulders. I feel I get a nice pump doing them this way and its easier for me than lifting the weight up at my sides.
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    Routine and how you describe the laterals are good.
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    Is it better to keep adding weight to scaptions as I pogress or would it be better if I just increase reps and keep the weight low? I'm already at 20 lbs on the scaptions. Is that enough, or should I increase the weight? I'm able to get 3 sets of out.
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    Okay...I looked at my form on the lateral raise and it was terrible. I had a hard time getting the form so I tired doing it with the weight at my sides. Even at lighter weight my forearms still come up past my elbows. It seems I am unable to fix this problem no matter what I do. It seems anytime I try to do lateral delt work I can't do it, everything feels awkward. Here is my terrible form that probably made my shoulder worse. I have trouble having my arms straight or bringing them higher. Could all this trouble be do to my imbalance, and if so is there any chance I can do any lateral delt work correctly with this imbalance? I still feel a pump in my lateral delts after working them even if I am workign them wrong.
    http://s37.photobucket.com/albums/e5...t=HPIM1293.mp4
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    Okay I think I may have solved my own problem. I just simply tilted my hands alittle. How does this look?
    http://s37.photobucket.com/albums/e5...t=HPIM1294.mp4
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    Quote Originally Posted by DerickVonD View Post
    Is it better to keep adding weight to scaptions as I pogress or would it be better if I just increase reps and keep the weight low? I'm already at 20 lbs on the scaptions. Is that enough, or should I increase the weight? I'm able to get 3 sets of out.
    Shoulder injuries are not usually caused by overhead pressing; they are instead caused by bench pressing without properly balancing pushing and pulling and in turn their internal and external rotators of the scapulae are imbalanced.

    Adding weight is the better method of overload.

    Imbalances are usually in the rotator cuff muscles.
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    Quote Originally Posted by kingk0ng View Post
    Shoulder injuries are not usually caused by overhead pressing; they are instead caused by bench pressing without properly balancing pushing and pulling and in turn their internal and external rotators of the scapulae are imbalanced.

    Adding weight is the better method of overload.

    Imbalances are usually in the rotator cuff muscles.
    I ultimately think that I injured my shoulder by adding too much weight too soon on the upright row, along with improper form, because I never had shoulder pain until I started going heavy on the upright row.
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    Upright rows are just terrible exercises to do all together when it comes to shoulder health and longevity.

    After watching your video, i can say a couple things
    1. the weight you are using is too much. You're core and back musculature cannot support it.
    2. After about 45 degrees you want your thumbs to be pointing UP. Keeping them ahead or down brings impingement on the supraspinatus tendon and will further hurt your RC.
    3. I think you need more supraspinatus work. Band lateral raises leading with the pinkey up to 45 degrees will work well for htis.

    Br
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    Quote Originally Posted by ZiR RED View Post
    Upright rows are just terrible exercises to do all together when it comes to shoulder health and longevity.

    After watching your video, i can say a couple things
    1. the weight you are using is too much. You're core and back musculature cannot support it.
    2. After about 45 degrees you want your thumbs to be pointing UP. Keeping them ahead or down brings impingement on the supraspinatus tendon and will further hurt your RC.
    3. I think you need more supraspinatus work. Band lateral raises leading with the pinkey up to 45 degrees will work well for htis.

    Br
    I couldnt agree more! If something bothers you, dont do it. You said that doing heavy upright rows hurt your shoulder. You answered your own question. Shoulder injuries take a while to rehab, so I would say take it easy and as stated above, do some band work...it goes a looong way!
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    Quote Originally Posted by ZiR RED View Post
    Upright rows are just terrible exercises to do all together when it comes to shoulder health and longevity.

    After watching your video, i can say a couple things
    1. the weight you are using is too much. You're core and back musculature cannot support it.
    2. After about 45 degrees you want your thumbs to be pointing UP. Keeping them ahead or down brings impingement on the supraspinatus tendon and will further hurt your RC.
    3. I think you need more supraspinatus work. Band lateral raises leading with the pinkey up to 45 degrees will work well for htis.

    Br
    I can't just lower the weight and try it? I don't have any bands. It's just really how can I put this, depressing. Weights are the only thing that help me with stress and now with this injury I have stress because of the exercises.
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    Quote Originally Posted by DerickVonD View Post
    I can't just lower the weight and try it? I don't have any bands. It's just really how can I put this, depressing. Weights are the only thing that help me with stress and now with this injury I have stress because of the exercises.

    Two things.

    First I totally emphasize with you.
    I'm a doctoral student, and exercise is really my only outlet for stress and anxiety. If I was injured and could not train, I think I would go nuts.

    That said, you need to look at this long term. I *assume* you want to continue to workout into old age, and use exercise and weight training as not only a mode to stay strong, healthy and look good, but also as a therapeutic means to reducing stress and anxiety.

    If that is the case, then continuing to work through this injury and not rehabing it is like driving with the check engine light on and engine knock. Sure, you can probably squeeze another 5 or 10,000 miles out of the car, but eventually it is going to break down and cost you 5-10x as much and as long to fix.

    Unfortunately, you only have one body. So try to imagine how you would feel if you need shoulder surgery and then cannot lift for an extended period of time.

    Get yourself some bands. You can buy them for 5 bucks at ocean state job lot or order them online for similar

    Br
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    Quote Originally Posted by ZiR RED View Post
    Two things.

    First I totally emphasize with you.
    I'm a doctoral student, and exercise is really my only outlet for stress and anxiety. If I was injured and could not train, I think I would go nuts.

    That said, you need to look at this long term. I *assume* you want to continue to workout into old age, and use exercise and weight training as not only a mode to stay strong, healthy and look good, but also as a therapeutic means to reducing stress and anxiety.

    If that is the case, then continuing to work through this injury and not rehabing it is like driving with the check engine light on and engine knock. Sure, you can probably squeeze another 5 or 10,000 miles out of the car, but eventually it is going to break down and cost you 5-10x as much and as long to fix.

    Unfortunately, you only have one body. So try to imagine how you would feel if you need shoulder surgery and then cannot lift for an extended period of time.

    Get yourself some bands. You can buy them for 5 bucks at ocean state job lot or order them online for similar

    Br
    Just to point out I had 15 pounds on the dumbbells making them 25 pounds. I could go as low as 10, which feels very light. Whats the difference between bands and light weight dumbbells? I'm not trying to be smart I'm just wondering. Are my shoulders worked slightly different? I can probably go get a pair of bands later today.
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    Resistance increases as bands are stretched, and you generally have more control over the vector (direction) of the force with bands.

    You could use 10 pounds, but I still feel you should be working to strengthen the fixators and stabilizers first before you work on the primary movers.

    Br
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    Does this look better? http://s37.photobucket.com/albums/e5...nt=Lateral.mp4

    and this is me doing seated rear delt raises
    http://s37.photobucket.com/albums/e5...=rear_delt.mp4
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    A bit. Don't think you need so much bend in the eblow. Also, dont forget to keep your shoulder blades pinched together.
  

  
 

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