is it really that bad to train every day?

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    is it really that bad to train every day?


    Hey i was jsut wondering what ur thoughts were on my training. Lately i've been going to the gym everyday but im hittin different mucles every time and the one day is pretty light. My split looks liek this....

    day 1 - legs
    day 2 - chest/tris
    day 3 - back/bis
    day 4 - abs/traps (lighter day)
    day 5 - legs
    day 6 - chest/shoulders
    day 7 -back/bis
    day8 - abs/traps (light day)

    repeat

    I might throw in some work for a lagging part if i feel liek it with the abs...... is this really that bad i mean i am working sumthing different each day and feel as if there is enough rest for each muscle group.

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    Depends how long you want to keep going like this..... you're going to burn out after a while. Trust me, I've done it before.

    The body needs rest to grow, no amount of supps can support you for ever. You're light day is abs & traps - 2 of your main areas (traps = back IMO)

    I'd shift your ab workout to the end of your leg session, and throw traps in with back, and use the rest days (1 rest - no gym, 1 cardio?)

    Edit* 125lbs? Scrap the cardio, use that day to eat....
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    Train 4-5 days a week, rest at least 2 days a week. You need to give your body rest to grow. You need to be eating food man, lots of it.
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    Rest is one of the most important aspects of training imo. Allowing your body to repair itself is pretty big
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    Quote Originally Posted by gamer2be08 View Post
    Train 4-5 days a week, rest at least 2 days a week. You need to give your body rest to grow. You need to be eating food man, lots of it.

    I completely agree

    Over-training = under eating IMO.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Carbs brah View Post
    I completely agree

    Over-training = under eating IMO.
    Not in all cases.. Ive overtrained before from going to the gym 2 weeks straight. I had a routine were I could lift every day, it was weird and it killed me lol..
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    Hey mkretz, didn't you address this topic in another post a couple months ago?

    I too lift daily, with heavy weights at an intensity that keeps my heart rate in the training zone. One of the keys to surviving and growing with daily lifting, is to keep the duration in check. If I exceed 1 hour a day, CNS fatigue is only a few days away.

    Several other guys at the gym are doing my exact routine and enjoying unparalleled gains--also learning the necessity of limiting duration at this intensity and frequency.

    Your schedule looks fine to me--allows sufficient rest for each muscle. Adequate sleep and nutrition are a must.
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    yea, thanks guys, im actually up to 135 now im bulking on 3200-3500 cals and barely gaining so might bump it up sum more, its crazy haha, i like eatin though so its all good. My workouts are a little lengthy but i have cut down, i am around 1.5 hours but my rest periods are decently long and i sip extend throughout my workout and start drinking my shake with whey and waxy maize bout an hour in so i dont think id really be goin too catabolic
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    Quote Originally Posted by mkretz View Post
    Hey i was jsut wondering what ur thoughts were on my training. Lately i've been going to the gym everyday but im hittin different mucles every time and the one day is pretty light. My split looks liek this....

    day 1 - legs
    day 2 - chest/tris
    day 3 - back/bis
    day 4 - abs/traps (lighter day)
    day 5 - legs
    day 6 - chest/shoulders
    day 7 -back/bis
    day8 - abs/traps (light day)

    repeat

    I might throw in some work for a lagging part if i feel liek it with the abs...... is this really that bad i mean i am working sumthing different each day and feel as if there is enough rest for each muscle group.
    A very profound adage that resonated with me regarding this subject claimed there was no such thing as over training, only under recovering.

    To answer your question, I can't be precise or specific since I'm not sure if you're on any anabolic compounds or recovery enhancing supplements, but if you're keeping your workouts under an hour and consuming adequate calories coupled with ample sleep/rest - you should be fine. I can recall many studies, one of which was in a recent Muscular Development, that tackled this question head on; and concluded that muscle can actually be re-trained even when soreness still persists. The data seems to suggest muscle recuperation is complete after a duration of 48 hours.

    Personally, I train every chance I get - only because I love to train. If I'm not getting a pump or sweating bullets, I just don't feel like myself; and my appetite plummets into oblivion.
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    ^ amen to that i love to train thats y i wanna do it every day lol. Def. had a good workout today up 10 lbs in overhead db exts from last week, i was shocked haha, good feeling!
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    you have to balance an equation, volume per day * days per week = volume per week. You can only handle so much volume per week.

    So if you train everyday, you have to lower the volume, and probably lower the intensity as well. Very few people have the innate ability to recover when training intensely everyday (pretty much no one, lol).

    The way I train, I only lift 4x a week, and I don't even lift with very much volume either. I just keep the weight high, and the intensity high.
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    Physiological Symptoms of Overtraining

    Muscle/joint tenderness, tiredness, Decreased performance
    tightness

    Increased rate of overuse injuries Insomnia/disturbed sleep patterns

    Body weight loss Nausea

    Decreased appetite Allergic reactions

    Elevated heart rate and blood Head colds/persistent URTI
    pressure

    Training fatigue/lethargy Higher lactate concentrations at
    any given workload

    Changes in menstrual pattern Decreased neural initiation of
    motor movements/decreased
    coordination

    Decreased heart rate at a given Decreased strength
    level of running intensity (by about
    5 beats/minute)

    Decreased maximal heart rate Decreased muscle glycogen levels



    Theories of Overtraining

    What does science have to tell us about overtraining? Recent research suggests it's a neuroendocrine disorder, primarily affecting the nervous and endocrine systems, which seems to match up well with the symptoms. Other theories are that it's caused by excessive trauma to the muscle cells without adequate healing. This "catabolic-anabolic imbalance" theory holds that the overtrained body is dominated by a catabolic (or breaking-down) state instead of an anabolic state, during which the body regenerates itself.

    Systems Affected by Overtraining

    The multiple signs and symptoms of overtraining particularly affect the musculoskeletal, immune, endocrine, cardiovascular, and nervous systems. The symptoms appear to be exacerbated by external stressors such as lack of sleep, jet lag, ongoing illness, work-related stress, poor nutrition, menstruation, etc.

    The magnitude of the effects of overtraining on the hormonal system cannot be overemphasized. Here's why: The body releases stress hormones such as adrenaline (epinephrine) when you exercise, to increase heart rate, shunt blood to working muscles, release glucose into the bloodstream, and stimulate fat metabolism so you can burn more fat. Overtraining causes an abnormal response in the autonomic nervous system through the excess production of adrenaline--which in turn suppresses the body's production of serotonin and dopamine (hormones that have a calming effect), causing us to experience the symptoms of depression and anxiousness seen in the table below.
    Effects of Overtraining on the Autonomic Nervous System

    Irritability/moodiness Emotional instability

    Depression Elevated basal metabolic rate

    Lack of enthusiasm for training Anxiousness

    Lack of concentration Palpitations



    If these symptoms don't get your attention, here are two that will: 1.) diminished sex drive and sexual performance, and 2.) fear of training.
    i have trained every day and sometime 2 times a day and i have overtrained for monthes during the winter insomnia and depression have hit me hard 3 times now then you take 2 weeks off and you feel normal again it really creeps up on you. you do not know then its there be carefull when training daily
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    I train 2x/day on those rare days once or twice per week when I am off and do not have any clients - I just can't stay away from the weight when I have the chance to get in there and strap on some headphones. Doesn't feel right sitting at home playing PS3, when I could be sweating bullets and getting pumped.

    I should follow that up, to be responsible, by saying my first post in this thread still holds true - over training isn't at prevalent as under recovering (rest, nutrition, supplementation). Pay close attention to your symptoms and body feedback, as Wedlund posted above
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    averagebroz.com/ABG/Q_%26_A/Entries/2010/5/28_Central_nervous_system.html
    There is no such thing as overtraining. If you can take the time to adjust your body to rigorous amounts of volume, you can max out twice a day seven days a week. You can work through overtraining and still set personal records. If these guys can squat, snatch, and clean and jerk at maximum effort twice daily, you can definitely adapt to a 4-day split training every day.
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    The vast majority of people I've ever seen who train daily don't manage their volume and intensity well enough and end up doing too much.
    I've also seen plenty of really strong people and have seen people with average ability build themselves up to respectable size and strength levels. None of them would or could tolerate daily training (provided you don't count stretching or a couple sets of light ab work as "training"). I know there are some who claim daily training is great, but that just doesn't fit with what I've observed over a reasonably large sample size.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sweekaters View Post
    There is no such thing as overtraining.
    I call crap on this. There is such a thing. Train for too hard for too long and it will happen; it is just a question of how much for the individual in question.

    I was training moderate volume, high intensity (Dogg Crapp Style) and I eventually developed most of the symptoms Wedlund6 listed plus lab work showed tanked T3 levels and very high creatinine. Throttled back to cruising at the gym and things are back to normal.

    Quote Originally Posted by Sweekaters View Post
    If you can take the time to adjust your body to rigorous amounts of volume, you can max out twice a day seven days a week. You can work through overtraining and still set personal records. If these guys can squat, snatch, and clean and jerk at maximum effort twice daily, you can definitely adapt to a 4-day split training every day.
    This really comes down to volume x intensity. If these guys train like powerlifters do then yes it is feasible because there are only one or two sets of one or two reps (total of 1-4) that are anywhere near max effort. Compare this to a Dogg Crapp session where you have approx ten sets with 2 rest-pauses added on. Here you're looking at 60+ reps at near max effort. The two are not comparable in the least.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nitrox View Post
    I call crap on this. There is such a thing. Train for too hard for too long and it will happen; it is just a question of how much for the individual in question.

    I was training moderate volume, high intensity (Dogg Crapp Style) and I eventually developed most of the symptoms Wedlund6 listed plus lab work showed tanked T3 levels and very high creatinine. Throttled back to cruising at the gym and things are back to normal.

    This really comes down to volume x intensity. If these guys train like powerlifters do then yes it is feasible because there are only one or two sets of one or two reps (total of 1-4) that are anywhere near max effort. Compare this to a Dogg Crapp session where you have approx ten sets with 2 rest-pauses added on. Here you're looking at 60+ reps at near max effort. The two are not comparable in the least.
    Read about how John Broz trains his guys, after warming up, he has them attempt a max lift six times. After getting or failing to get it, they do heavy doubles and triples until they have done anywhere from 20-50 reps total, working back up to beyond the max single that they attempted earlier. So one or two sets with a total of 1-4 reps? They do closer to 100 reps near max effort daily on every single lift. Granted, they're genetic freaks, but it really makes you skeptical whenever everyone shouts 'OVERTRAINING' to a guy only doing a couple of sets for a couple of bodyparts daily. Overtraining exists for sure, but you can train through it with motivation, and push the human body to do some amazing things.
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    yea, like said above, if i got the time, y not go in and try to improve myself
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sweekaters View Post
    Read about how John Broz trains his guys, after warming up, he has them attempt a max lift six times. After getting or failing to get it, they do heavy doubles and triples until they have done anywhere from 20-50 reps total, working back up to beyond the max single that they attempted earlier. So one or two sets with a total of 1-4 reps? They do closer to 100 reps near max effort daily on every single lift. Granted, they're genetic freaks, but it really makes you skeptical whenever everyone shouts 'OVERTRAINING' to a guy only doing a couple of sets for a couple of bodyparts daily. Overtraining exists for sure, but you can train through it with motivation, and push the human body to do some amazing things.
    I see this similar to the old Bulgarian weightlifting training in that if you are able to survive it means you have superior genetics and would likely have gotten very, very strong no matter what training system you used. How many people fail at this sort of training vs. how many get very strong? Motivation will only take you so far if you are broken down and injured all the time. I managed to injure myself only training 4 days a week with a SQ, DL, BP, overhead press split on those four days because I didn't manage my SQ and DL volume and intensity correctly only training each lift once a week, so daily heavy training is a terrible idea for someone like me. Obviously everyone has to find exactly how much they can tolerate and adapt to but I've observed that those who do well with daily training are in the extreme minority. Most people do very well somewhere in the middle and not in the extremes of very high volume or very low volume training.
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    We all know high intensity is great, but don't forget, volume= duration x frequency. Either duration or frequency has to limited, or you'll simply fall over, a twitching, panting lump on the floor. Till your next work-out, of course!
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    Quote Originally Posted by weeniman View Post
    We all know high intensity is great, but don't forget, volume= duration x frequency. Either duration or frequency has to limited, or you'll simply fall over, a twitching, panting lump on the floor. Till your next work-out, of course!
    I train like a rabid insane cave man every session, sometimes twice a day (clients and schedule permitting), and have never suffered any major injury or the inability to get a deep throbbing muscle pump (get your mind out of the gutter!) with each and every bout over the years.

    I would contend, respectfully, much like so many other aspects of life - training (and over training) is simply an individual endeavor, and cannot be limited or predicated by any mathematical means or extrapolating physiological literature to mean every athlete will respond accordingly and similarly to work load and recovery.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Outstanding View Post
    I train like a rabid insane cave man every session, sometimes twice a day (clients and schedule permitting), and have never suffered any major injury or the inability to get a deep throbbing muscle pump (get your mind out of the gutter!) with each and every bout over the years.

    I would contend, respectfully, much like so many other aspects of life - training (and over training) is simply an individual endeavor, and cannot be limited or predicated by any mathematical means or extrapolating physiological literature to mean every athlete will respond accordingly and similarly to work load and recovery.
    If you've been doing this for years, how much progress have you made over the last year? I'm not trying to be insulting, I'm just curious if you've been able to make sustained progress with this approach. I've found I stall rather quickly with this approach and this happens even faster as I've gotten stronger.
    I agree that everyone will have a different tolerance to training and some can do more than others and still make progress. Ultimately all any of us can do is give advice based on what we've seen and experienced, but the best teacher for anyone will just be getting under the bar and lifting heavy for several years.
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    Quote Originally Posted by SRS2000 View Post
    If you've been doing this for years, how much progress have you made over the last year? I'm not trying to be insulting, I'm just curious if you've been able to make sustained progress with this approach. I've found I stall rather quickly with this approach and this happens even faster as I've gotten stronger.

    I agree that everyone will have a different tolerance to training and some can do more than others and still make progress. Ultimately all any of us can do is give advice based on what we've seen and experienced, but the best teacher for anyone will just be getting under the bar and lifting heavy for several years.
    I always change training styles, tempos, and the entire construct every few months (Y3K, PRRS, etc). To answer your question though, I have always made significant gains over the long run, I started at 180 pounds as a senior in high school, and four years later I was on STAGE in low single digit BF condition at 201. I don't believe everyone should adopt my training methodology, but I do believe in my philosophy. I eat regimented year-round, to the point extended family and even co-workers never even ask me to order out or share in birthday cake etc; plus I'm not always volume training. I tend to recalculate and adapt on the fly, so my training never becomes stale, and my physique/strength are less likely to stagnate.

    When all is aid and done though... I am not frequenting the gym constantly in an attempt to achieve maximum muscle mass (at least that isn't my sole impetus), I simply love it - and as weird as it sounds, I often imagine for a split second what it would be like to be paralyzed or crippled in some way, and have to live my entire life on the sidelines. Just the prospect of losing something I'm so passionate about and I gain so much life enhancement from, is more than enough to get me back under the squat bar.
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    Depends on you honestly. I could probably train everyday and make gains, but I definitely would have to slow down my other days. I've been the biggest and leanest when I train hard all the time. But you have to make sure your diet and rest is spot on. I.E i was sleeping 10 hours a day.
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    Quote Originally Posted by bkoguy07 View Post
    But you have to make sure your diet and rest is spot on. I.E i was sleeping 10 hours a day.
    Dead right!
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    I used to train 7 days a week, on a 4 day split. I finally realized how burnt out i was so i switched it up to 3-4 days a week on push/pull/legs split my results speed up nicely.
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    Yeah usually Intensity and volume are indirectly proportional... So if I increase intensity you have to cut volume.. opposite holds true. I tend to go more for volume and say **** intensity just because I like doing alot of different exercises and taking my time and making sure i have maximum power doing it. I've overtrained once in my life.. I was working out for 2 hours a day lots of volume and pretty fast, and then i would go and immediately run 4 miles. I couldn't sleep at night and was feeling less intense about the gym. I cut the 4 miles and a few exercises and I felt great.
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    there has been alot of talk about high frequency training. thats how i train. yes, if you train every day or 5 or 6 days per week, or if you train each bodypart 2x per week. the have to adjust your workouts in other areas to figure in the high frequency. namely, you have to cut back on the volume to a great degree. if you train everyday and do each bodypart 2x per week, you cant do 15 sets per bodypart. Im a fan of DC training(dogg crapp) but i change it to suit me better. instead of a 2 day split, i do a 3 day split. this way i don't do to many muscle groups in one workout.
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    being so skinny, that is not the right type of program for you at all. I understand nobody ever listens to others advice. lol. but honestly you should just stick with some very basic exercises and routine. namely. chest, shoulders tri's. back, bis legs. some would argue a full body workout is better. either way, keep your volume low, intensity high. when your already skinny, the last thing you want to do is lots of sets and working out every day.
  

  
 

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