Who here trains Dogcrapp Style?
- 06-08-2010, 11:34 PM
- 06-08-2010, 11:51 PM
I don't think that anybody trains DC all the time, but I've tried it myself. Honestly.... I'm not a big fan. If you want to truly create a growth response, try having a lifting partner force the negative phase of the lift and assist if necessary until X reps are achieved. This alternated weekly or EOW with strict & consistant 'normal' training works wonders for me at keeping the weights/scale moving up.
- 06-09-2010, 12:20 AM
EOW=every other week? and are you saying have him apply force on the eccentric movements?
06-09-2010, 05:34 AM
You get a weight you can only do 7 reps with, do the 7 reps, then have your partner help you lift it and you lower it yourself for the next 3 reps.
06-09-2010, 09:52 AM
I like DC even though not currently doing it. I like 3 day split for scheduling purposes. I like hitting each muscle 3 times in 2 weeks. I like being fresh for each exercise since you are only doing 1 per muscle. You just have to be able to mentally push and go all out since you are doing only 1 exercise. I think some people don't feel like they get much since volume is lower and they don't go all out each exercise.
06-09-2010, 11:07 AM
I think DC is a cool program and you can see good strength gains on it, but I think overall unless you are really a mass monster to begin with you won't see great gains. You will likely do better with a simple 3-5 day split.
06-09-2010, 12:42 PM
I followed the program a few times. I'm sure my biggest problem was not taking the intensity to the full 100%. I did learn tons of new techniques, though, that I still use in my regular workouts. I do extreme stretching at the end of every bodypart, I try to do the static when applicable, and I do heavy 20 reppers almost always on my big leg moves. I also subscribe to temporarily dropping an exercise from my routine when I plateau on it, but can't always bring myself to do it. I'll throw in a lot of other DC stuff on weeks where I have a tight schedule too. I'm a huge log guy, and I'm always reviewing, adding, and adjusting to evolve my routines. Some guys live and die by the low volume stuff, like my old SGL, SSG Cedric McMillan (name-dropping). So, from my experience with it, I'd say to try it for a few 4-6 week cycles to learn what you like and don't like about it, what your body responds to, and incorporate that into your normal routine.
06-09-2010, 12:45 PM
I agree that DC concepts are better for the advanced/intermediate lifter who has already made some good gains.
With more experience you can get higher intensities but with higher volumes this can lead to CNS burnout/over-training.
06-09-2010, 01:14 PM
DC concepts are cool but its designed for AAS users.
Id just train normally and incorporate the rest pauses in it. DC was "ok" didnt really care for it tho
Serious Nutrition Solutions
06-09-2010, 01:21 PM
I personally love dc.
I've been using it on a recomp, and have seen some pretty impressive gains despite not being in a caloric surplus.
It really is about putting everything into one set, but the payoff for me is the stretching. My body has responded very well to the fascia stretches, and I'll continue these stretches into any future routine.
06-10-2010, 12:25 PM
im on my 3rd dc blast and love the program. but myself like im sure most people dont do it properly. i do it to the best of my abilities based on reading all the dc literature. for me i love the low volume kill yourself for a little while layout. you gotta give your all and you gotta beat the log. it does no good to use a weight your comfy with its gotta be heavy and the sets punishing
06-10-2010, 06:25 PM
I LOVVEEE DC training. I started it as an Intermediate which is not really recommended, of course I made a post about on BB.com (I no longer post there) and some people flamed me hardcore and I stopped doing. About 6 months later I realized I made wayyy better gains on DC than i was with my other training. so i say **** what other people said and i went back to DC, lol.
DC has been used by lots of Natural BB's and people have had great gains on it, albeit I have Genetics more towards the gifted side.
As for DC for AAS users, in Dantes thread he mentions using a 3x a week routine for people with "average" recovery and a 4x a week routine people with above average recovery (HINT )
No training program will work for everyone, but if you respond well to other, low volume, high intensity training, you will love DC. Personally I do well on any training program, I just prefer DC.
06-10-2010, 06:42 PM
I have always been a higher volume trainer because I simply enjoy lifteing weight. When used properly, with the proper diet and rest I am making size and strength gains quite rapidly.
It is not exclusive to AAS users.
It is designer to push you to the brink of overtraining. It needs to be cycled and or cruised with regular set training.
I'll likely use it for good. I have more free time and each workout is more productive.
06-10-2010, 07:03 PM
Some good points D.D.
Ideas about using less intensity and making up for it with volume or frequency just don't hold water for me anymore.
Last thing worth mentioning is that at my age, my joints are much more appreciative of the lower volume and longer workout intervals.
06-10-2010, 07:19 PM
I like DC because for me after my first 2 sets to failure on a high volume program, everything from then on is 80% at best.
I might do on Bench for example
and then only be able to 205 for 5 and the 60 lb dumbells from then on.
With DC I just grab heavy ass weight and krank out 8 reps. I'm still playing with it a little bit though.
06-11-2010, 01:41 AM
Ahh yeah see i've always hovered over the decision to start DC or not, and while deciding I usually end up just starting another routine and so forth.. I wanted to give myself a little more time to learn my body first before I got into it, not to mention It is alot to piece together all the literature is scrambled about, I was going to try this ou ton my havoc cycle..see how the gains are..but thats not for a little while, for now I may run german volume program for 5 weeks
06-11-2010, 06:25 AM
It real easy actually. I very slightly tweak it to work around some injuries. I also do it antagonistically within the days split - push/pull
Pick three exercises.
Here's and example of my Day 1 - Shoulders/Chest/Back Width/Back Thick
Smith Military Press
Hammer Shoulder Press
Hammer Pull Downs
Hammer Incline Press
Hammer Low Rows
Dumbbell Shoulder Press
Wide Cable Pull Downs
Incline Dumbbell Press
Seated Cable Rows
06-15-2010, 02:06 PM
Right THAT part is easy David, BUT now how about the principles? When to rest pause, time between sets, number of reps/sets...extreme stretches?! lol uhg
06-15-2010, 02:18 PM
Some principles I believe in:
A) I believe rest pausing is the most productive way of training ever. I've never seen a way to faster strength gains than what comes from rest pausing. I'll use an incline smith bench with a hypothetical weight to show you my recommended way of rest pausing.
Warmups would be 135x12, 185x10, 250x 6, 315x4 (none of these are taxing--they are just getting me warmed up for my all out rest pause set)
MAIN REST PAUSE SET-375x8 reps (total failure) rack the weight, then 15 deep breathes and 375x 2 to 4 reps (total failure) rack the weight, then 15 deep breathes and 375x 1 to 2 reps. I personally do a static right after that but I'll explain that later. Remember every time you go to failure you always finish on the negative portion and have your training partner help you or rack the weight yourself. To explain further on my first rest pause above I struggled with every iota of my strength to get that 8th rep up. At that point instead of racking the weight up top I brought the weight down to my chest again slowly (6 seconds) and had my training partner quickly help me lift the weight back up to the top to rack it. That "always finishing on the negative rep" will accrue more cellular damage over time and allow for even greater gains.
B) Every exercise is done with a controlled but explosive positive and a true 6-8 second negative phase. The science is there just read it. Almost every study states an explosive positive motion is the priming phase and the negative portion of an exercise should be done controlled and slowly. I have the mindset that I hope you guys develop. I try so hard to get the weight up only for the sole reason I can lower it slowly to cause eccentric phase cellular damage.
C) Extreme Stretching: it must be done, it's imperative. It stretches fascia and helps recovery immensely. It will dramatically change your physique in a short amount of time if done right, trust me on that. I hit on it in the first article of this series.You don't rest after 16 days, basically you 'blast' (go balls out, trying to increase weight each time) for 6-12 weeks (they recommend 8 and see how you handle it, if you can go on for longer do longer) and then take a 'cruise' for two weeks - this is two weeks where you drop a meal (to get your appetite back) and train with straight sets (no rp) at about 90% of your max weight, if you want to skip a workout or two feel free, this is to get your mental and physical sanity back. A lotta guys do specialised routines like 6-week blasts and 10-day cruises but they're generally trained by DC or IH, I started with 8 weeks blast, two weeks cruise, then it went to 7 weeks, 2 weeks and has stayed around there since. If you feel like you gotta stop earlier, stop earlier, this program borders on overtraining if you don't eat and rest properly so it's best to stop before you burn out (as is sensible).
The key is progression (extra weight) so every two weeks you're cycling through your exercises again, so for every two weeks of blast you've got a chance to beat the logbook on each exercise and that's where growth happens.2) Each exercise is as many warmups as you feel you need, then one rest-pause set which is the workset. Like you warm up, then hit the exercise until failure, 15 deep breaths, hit it again until failure (you should get half the reps or thereabouts), 15 more deep breaths then one more set (again, half the reps of the previous mini-set). Then you stretch, you can stretch after the exercise or after a few related exercise, like I do bicep workset, forearms workset, then stretch biceps and forearms (makes sense to me). You can do chest/triceps/shoulder worksets and then stretch all three bodyparts or stretch the muscle in question after its exercise, either way works.
Incidentally not all exercises are rest-paused, only chest, shoulders, triceps, biceps, backwidth and some hamstring exercises; calves and forearms are straight-setted for 12 reps; other exercises have their own protocols. Quads are one heavy set (4-6 if a squat, 6-10 if a leg press or hack squat) and then a 20 rep widowmaker, incidentally Dante has often said that you don't have to do the widowmaker on the same exercise as the heavy set, like you can do free squats for 4-6 and then hack squats for your 20 repper. (he said that 'cause really big guys have problems breathing for 20 rep free squats but it doesn't just apply to them); deadlifts and rack deadlifts are 6-8 heavy, 3-4 heavier (50-60lb difference for me but I doubt that's absolute); bent rows and t-bar rows are a straight set of 12; sumo leg press is a 12-20 straight set, leg curls are 20-30 rest-paused, SLDL to be honest I'm not sure, I've seen conflicting advice, one is a straight set of 12, the other is to do six reps, and keep adding 10lbs to the bar until you can't get six, then next time start around 40lbs under the weight that stumped you.
Other muscles get a rep range in which your rest pause set must come under, for chest and shoulders it's 11-15rp, triceps it's 11-15rp (except skullcrushers which is 15-30 rp), biceps is 15-20 (preacher curls 11-15rp), back width (pulldowns etc) and dips are 15-20rp, err, what've I forgotten..I warm up with a 60 second rest between warm up sets for about 4 progressive sets.He’s outlined a series of stretches that he finds extremely effective at both avoiding injuries and adding size during cycles. These
includes the weights he uses, which readers will obviously have to adjust (more than likely down) according to their own strength levels. Every extreme stretch is done right after that body part has been trained.
Flat bench 90lb dumbbells chest high--lungs full of air--first 10 seconds
drop down into deepest stretch and then next 50 seconds really push the
stretch (this really, really hurts) but do it faithfully and come back and
post on the AE message board in 4 weeks and tell me if your chest isn't much
fuller and rounder
Seated on a flat bench-my back up against the barbell---75lb dumbbell in my
hand behind my head (like in an overhead dumbbell extension)--sink dumbbell
down into position for the first 10 seconds and then an agonizing 50 seconds
slightly leaning back and pushing the dumbbell down with the back of my head
This one is tough to describe--put barbell in squat rack shoulder
height--face away from it and reach back and grab it palms up (hands on
bottom of bar)---walk yourself outward until you are on your heels and the
stretch gets painful--then roll your shoulders downward and hold for 60
Just like the above position but hold barbell palms down now (hands on top of
bar)--sink down in a squatting position first and if you can hack it into a
kneeling position and then if you can hack that sink your butt down--60
seconds--I cannot make it 60 seconds-- I get to about 45—it’s too painful--if
you can make it 60 seconds you are either inhuman or you need to raise the
bar up another rung
Honestly for about 3 years my training partner and I would hang a 100lb
dumbbell from our waist and hung on the widest chinup bar (with wrist straps)
to see who could get closest to 3 minutes--I never made it--I think 2 minutes
27 seconds was my record--but my back width is by far my best body part--I
pull on a doorknob or stationary equipment with a rounded back now and it’s
way too hard too explain here--just try it and get your feel for it
Either leg up on a high barbell holding my toe and trying to force my leg
straight with my free hand for an excruciating painful 60 seconds
Facing a barbell in a power rack about hip high --grip it and simultaneously
sink down and throw your knees under the barbell and do a sissy squat
underneath it while going up on your toes. Then straighten your arms and lean
as far back as you can---60 seconds and if this one doesn't make you hate my
guts and bring tears to your eyes nothing will---do this one faithfully and
tell me in 4 weeks if your quads don’t look a lot different than they used to Calves
My weak body part that I couldn’t get up too par until 2 years ago when I
finally thought it out and figured out how to make them grow (with only one
set twice a week too). I don’t need to stretch calves after because when I do
calves I explode on the positive and take 5 seconds to get back to full
stretch and then 15 seconds at the very bottom "one one thousand, two one
thousand, three one thousand etc" --15 seconds stretching at the bottom
thinking and trying to flex my toes toward my shin--it is absolutely
unbearable and you will most likely be shaking and want to give up at about 7
reps (I always go for 12reps with maximum weights)--do this on a hack squat
or a leg press--my calves have finally taken off due to this and caught up to
the rest of me thank God.
If you doubt the extra muscle growth possible with stretching I urge you
to research hyperplasia (and the bird wing stretching protocols) where time X
stretch X weight induced incredible hyperplasia. Our stretching is done under
much lower time periods but fascial stretching and the possibility of induced
hyperplasia cant be ignored. I’ve had too many people write me or tell me in
person that the "extreme stretching" has dramatically changed their physique
to ever doubt its virtues.
After warm up I rest up to 4 minutes before my working set.
Between exercises I rest 5 mins...enough to recover but I keep it consistent across the weeks of cycling DC. Consistant intervals is what I shoot for as obviously greater or less rest will effect perfromance.
06-15-2010, 02:19 PM
i used those to put mine together.
having the best gains over any other program. i liked HST alot tho.
06-15-2010, 02:23 PM
The stretches are a bit more work, thats where its a little helpful to buy one of the dvds. Still even without the dvd, the description isn't too bad, you can work from them and get it right. 60-90 seconds for the stretches, and if it doesn't hurt you aren't doing it hard enough.
06-15-2010, 02:35 PM
it seems like everyones version of DC is a little different than what was probably intended, either way I love what I've been doing
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