Is Rear Delt Row a good substitute for rear delt raises?

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  1. Is Rear Delt Row a good substitute for rear delt raises?


    I was wondering this because I was thinking of switching from rear delt raises to rear delt rows. The movement of rear delt rows just seems easier for me.


  2. Will the rear delt's be stimulated? Yes, but I wouldn't perform them as a substitution to rear raises. I feel that rear raises puts more emphasis on the rear delts.

    The rowing movement also recruits your infraspinatus, Rhomboids, and Teres muscles to a greater degree.
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  3. Quote Originally Posted by lonewolf0420 View Post
    Will the rear delt's be stimulated? Yes, but I wouldn't perform them as a substitution to rear raises. I feel that rear raises puts more emphasis on the rear delts.

    The rowing movement also recruits your infraspinatus, Rhomboids, and Teres muscles to a greater degree.
    Not to mention traps and biceps. I agree, a fine exercise for rear delts, especially if you take a relatively close grip, but not a substitute if "sculpturing" is your goal.
    NSCA - CSCS

  4. hmm would a lying rear delt raise be effective(http://www.exrx.net/WeightExercises/...ltRaise.html)? That may be easier for me especially since I recently sprained my neck well re-sprained it, it never quite healed. I have to also work my lateral delts like this http://www.exrx.net/WeightExercises/...eralRaise.html. I find that for some reason no matter the weight I have trouble lifting the weight up at my side but slightly in front I don't have a problem.

  5. I dont see how those lying rear delt raises are a good excercises, and bringing the weight straight up is useless.

    I do these with dumbbells: http://www.exrx.net/WeightExercises/...arDeltRow.html

    But I find these isolate the best: http://www.exrx.net/WeightExercises/...arDeltRow.html
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  6. I still love doing a superset of Arnold presses with rear delt laterals.

    Just make sure any rear delt isolation work is done as strictly as possible.

  7. Quote Originally Posted by ItsHectic View Post
    I dont see how those lying rear delt raises are a good excercises, and bringing the weight straight up is useless.

    I do these with dumbbells: http://www.exrx.net/WeightExercises/...arDeltRow.html

    But I find these isolate the best: http://www.exrx.net/WeightExercises/...arDeltRow.html
    Well those are what I was talking about doing earlier instead of the rear delt raises.

  8. Quote Originally Posted by VolcomX311 View Post
    Not to mention traps and biceps. I agree, a fine exercise for rear delts, especially if you take a relatively close grip, but not a substitute if "sculpturing" is your goal.
    Well my main concern was not sculpting even though that is important but strength which is most important to me. My shoulders just sometimes give me trouble. I might just try doing them lying down. I'll have to work my laterials laying down like in the one exercise because like I said I have trouble lifting weight directly at my sides and it feels as if something is shifting in my shoulder when I do. having the weight forward in front of my thigh or a little in front of my side I can do. I don't know maybe I have weird shoulder joints.

  9. Quote Originally Posted by DerickVonD View Post
    Well my main concern was not sculpting even though that is important but strength which is most important to me. My shoulders just sometimes give me trouble. I might just try doing them lying down. I'll have to work my laterials laying down like in the one exercise because like I said I have trouble lifting weight directly at my sides and it feels as if something is shifting in my shoulder when I do. having the weight forward in front of my thigh or a little in front of my side I can do. I don't know maybe I have weird shoulder joints.
    You should try face pulls, and see how those feel. They are a very underrated exercise.

    Here's a really good article on shoulder stability http://www.tmuscle.com/free_online_a...lls_and_shrugs. Down, toward the bottom of the page, there is a video of a guy performing face pulls. That method is very effective.

  10. Quote Originally Posted by DerickVonD View Post
    Well my main concern was not sculpting even though that is important but strength which is most important to me. My shoulders just sometimes give me trouble. I might just try doing them lying down. I'll have to work my laterials laying down like in the one exercise because like I said I have trouble lifting weight directly at my sides and it feels as if something is shifting in my shoulder when I do. having the weight forward in front of my thigh or a little in front of my side I can do. I don't know maybe I have weird shoulder joints.
    I feel you on that. If your gym has immovable flat/incline benches. Do them laying chest first against the incline bench and do the rows with a french bar, grab the french bar at the peaks. The grip is nice & narrow, the form is strict, its at a good incline (set it at its lowest degree), it saves your lumbar and grabbing at french bar is easy on the wrist as oppose to a straight bar.

    The bench has to be immovable or you'll endo. Best of luck.
    NSCA - CSCS

  11. Quote Originally Posted by lonewolf0420 View Post
    You should try face pulls, and see how those feel. They are a very underrated exercise.

    Here's a really good article on shoulder stability http://www.tmuscle.com/free_online_a...lls_and_shrugs. Down, toward the bottom of the page, there is a video of a guy performing face pulls. That method is very effective.
    Word.

    You beat me to it. I actually like to do them both every other week to really strengthen the all important rear delt/lat area.
    M.Ed. Ex Phys


  12. Well I'm not sure if or when I'm getting a gym membership. Also with the rear delt raises, I can do them but it's hard to keep proper form. I was thinking of doing this untill I fix my imbalance or until I can go to the gym.
    Military Press (3 sets)
    Scaption (1 set)
    lying side lateral raises (1 set)
    Rear Delt Row (1 set)
    DB Upright row (2 sets)
    BB Shrugs (3 sets)
    DB Shrugs (2 sets)

    Also after reading the article I was thinking of adding pushup at the end of my workout on chest days. How does the above sound? I can't do facepulls unti lI join a gym and idk if I'm joining anytime soon.

  13. Quote Originally Posted by DerickVonD View Post
    Well I'm not sure if or when I'm getting a gym membership. Also with the rear delt raises, I can do them but it's hard to keep proper form. I was thinking of doing this untill I fix my imbalance or until I can go to the gym.
    Military Press (3 sets)
    Scaption (1 set)
    Rear Delt Row (1 set)
    DB Upright row (2 sets)
    BB Shrugs (3 sets)
    DB Shrugs (2 sets)

    Also after reading the article I was thinking of adding pushup at the end of my workout on chest days. How does the above sound? I can't do facepulls unti lI join a gym and idk if I'm joining anytime soon.
    Get yourself some workout "bands", and use them for doing face pulls.

  14. Quote Originally Posted by lonewolf0420 View Post
    Get yourself some workout "bands", and use them for doing face pulls.
    If I add them in will the above workout plan still work only with face pulls implemented, or would you change that routine. I'm just trying to get a solid shoulder day down.
    Military Press (3 sets)
    Scaption (1 set)
    lying side lateral raises (1 set)
    Rear Delt Row (1 set)
    DB Upright row (2 sets)
    BB Shrugs (3 sets)
    DB Shrugs (2 sets)
    facepulls (1 set)
    something like that?

  15. If you were going to perform that order I would slip the face pulls in after the lateral raises.

  16. Hey guy I'm glad to announce I can do the lateral raises now, after doing scaptions for afew weeks. I still can not do rear delt raises yet, but I guess until then I'll have to do rear delt rows. I know you guys said rear delt rows arn't a sub for the raises, but will the rear delt rows add any definition, or will it just add pretty much just strength without much definition? I'm going to have to do the rows until I can do the rear delt raises.

    Edit: I'm also able to do upright rows better, but with a shoulder width grip. I'm still confused on them though some say they are bad, other say they are fine.

  17. Best rear delt movement I have found:

    YOu will need a heavier weight than you do rear flys with.

    Bent overat your hips to just above a 45 degree angle - let the weight fall where it does which will be in front of your chest and inside of your shoulders.

    add a slight angle you your elbows, maybe 15 degrees, basically like a fly.

    Staying bent over keep your arms in the fixed angle and pull up and out with your rear delts. the weight will come to the outside of your hips, you can play with how wide you pull them out but it is mostly back and definitely comes to around your hip. the weight does not break the plane of your body but the top half the the dumbell might.

    when lowering it again let gravity pull it down and in, obviously resisting it a bit.

    You can use some english or rock to get the weight started at the bottom and to keep your balance but its just enough to keep your balance...

    You can go HEAVY with practice. It does not burn as bad as some other movements but the heavy weight makes them grow.

  18. Okay guys I found the problem. I was doing delt raises like this http://www.exrx.net/WeightExercises/...eralRaise.html
    I didn't know you could do them like this
    [nomedia="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_1uZD-I3qw8"]YouTube- Instructional Fitness - Dumbbell Bent Over Lateral Raises[/nomedia]
    which is a much easier way than turning your arms as you go up.

  19. Do them how you feel them best and can handle the most weight without hurting yourself. For me that is the one I tried to explain (sorry no name for it so I can't find pics, sort of copied it from someone then modified) or seated with my abdomen expanded for stability and leaning over with some english (like seated on a military press bench with the feet stops).

    I've seen that rear delts are better with more weight even if form isn't text book BS

  20. Quote Originally Posted by DerickVonD View Post
    Okay guys I found the problem. I was doing delt raises like this http://www.exrx.net/WeightExercises/...eralRaise.html
    I didn't know you could do them like this
    YouTube- Instructional Fitness - Dumbbell Bent Over Lateral Raises
    which is a much easier way than turning your arms as you go up.
    the 2nd example isnt that great. The hands are rotated to follow the shoulders natural movement, and rotating your hands inwards at the top so your thumbs point down helps isolate the rear delt from the medial delt.
    I dont think Dave is parallel enough with the ground, seems he is hitting lower traps a bit there when he turns to the side, 45degrees definetly isnt enough, 90 degrees is ideal, I would probably bend my knees heaps and rest my torso on my thighs and do them. Infact the example Dave is doing is bad, between not rotating the arms enough and not being parallel enough with the ground, he is hitting lower traps and even medial delt more than he is hitting rear delt.


    If you really wanna see what rear delt isolation feels like, get into a bent over row position on a bench and do unilateral rear delt flies with a straight elbow and light weight and hold for a couple seconds at the top, keeping your hand inline with your shoulder and torso parallel with the ground.

  21. The other night I thought I would try Rear Delt rows on my cable machine, with a rope attachment. Didn't go too heavy. I made the movement more about feeling the muscle work. MAN, did that jack up my delts. Definitely going to add these in to my routines.

  22. Quote Originally Posted by ItsHectic View Post
    the 2nd example isnt that great. The hands are rotated to follow the shoulders natural movement, and rotating your hands inwards at the top so your thumbs point down helps isolate the rear delt from the medial delt.
    I dont think Dave is parallel enough with the ground, seems he is hitting lower traps a bit there when he turns to the side, 45degrees definetly isnt enough, 90 degrees is ideal, I would probably bend my knees heaps and rest my torso on my thighs and do them. Infact the example Dave is doing is bad, between not rotating the arms enough and not being parallel enough with the ground, he is hitting lower traps and even medial delt more than he is hitting rear delt.


    If you really wanna see what rear delt isolation feels like, get into a bent over row position on a bench and do unilateral rear delt flies with a straight elbow and light weight and hold for a couple seconds at the top, keeping your hand inline with your shoulder and torso parallel with the ground.
    So is this good?
    [nomedia="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sfdFnJwV7Cw"]YouTube- Rear Delt Flies[/nomedia]

  23. I dont like using cables for delt work(at least fly type movements) because there is just as much force at the beginning of the movement as there is at the end meaning your working the rotator cuff a lot. Although cables shouldnt make a difference with row type movements should it?


    That very fit for an american guy couldnt do upright rows correctly but the flies he is doing in that video are alright apart from his elbows being too close to his torso which makes it more like bent over rows, upper arm should be 90 degrees to the torso which makes the exercise a lot harder due to isolation.

  24. Quote Originally Posted by ItsHectic View Post
    the 2nd example isnt that great. The hands are rotated to follow the shoulders natural movement, and rotating your hands inwards at the top so your thumbs point down helps isolate the rear delt from the medial delt.
    I dont think Dave is parallel enough with the ground, seems he is hitting lower traps a bit there when he turns to the side, 45degrees definetly isnt enough, 90 degrees is ideal, I would probably bend my knees heaps and rest my torso on my thighs and do them. Infact the example Dave is doing is bad, between not rotating the arms enough and not being parallel enough with the ground, he is hitting lower traps and even medial delt more than he is hitting rear delt.


    If you really wanna see what rear delt isolation feels like, get into a bent over row position on a bench and do unilateral rear delt flies with a straight elbow and light weight and hold for a couple seconds at the top, keeping your hand inline with your shoulder and torso parallel with the ground.
    Okay, what I did today was bend over at about a 30 degree angle, holding two dumbbells in my hand, I turned my wrists so that my thumbs and the end of the dumbbells were facing each other and then I did rear delt flies like that. Does that sound good? I only had 15lbs but considering I'm a beginner I think I did well. I could really feel my rear delts getting worked.

  25. Quote Originally Posted by DerickVonD View Post
    Okay, what I did today was bend over at about a 30 degree angle, holding two dumbbells in my hand, I turned my wrists so that my thumbs and the end of the dumbbells were facing each other and then I did rear delt flies like that. Does that sound good? I only had 15lbs but considering I'm a beginner I think I did well. I could really feel my rear delts getting worked.
    The movements that I felt in my rear delts were never the ones that added mass for me. the ones that I used the most weights on were. For instance, with rear delt flys I do them seated leaning over and can handle 40 with good form. With the movement I tried to describe I can handle 85 and it shows in the mass growth. I fell into the trap of "feel" with my rear delts and now they are lagging and I need to go back to weight.
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