Getting back to basics... Need help.

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    myrddin's Avatar
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    Getting back to basics... Need help.


    Hey guys, I am a new guy to the forum. I am 38 looking to get back in shape. I have had less and less time lately to exercise (even with a gym where I work). I ended last year by completing the P90X challenge which was a blast, however I have fallen off the exercise wagon and have not done much for about 4 months now...

    I want to get back to the basics, I am looking to do some running and some basic weight training (bench, curl, leg press... etc)... I was taking NO Explode with good results (for someone who works a lot an has little down time it helped)... But I am looking for something else to try (I know this opens up a lot of discussion). I have been looking at RagNOrok-ULTRA... Seems like it’s a much better blend and product than BSN's.

    To get to the point... I was looking for help... I need to design a workout routine and was hoping someone would be able to offer advice...


    Here is what I have to my disposal:

    Home:
    7 foot tall banana bag with upper cut ring (heavy bag)
    P90x videos
    jump rope


    Work/Gym:
    Equipment Available

    9 StarTrac Treadmills
    4 LifeFitness Total Body Cosstrainers
    3 LifeFitness Recumbant Stationary Bikes
    2 LifeFitness Upright Stationary Bikes
    2 Precor Elliptical Crosstrainers
    2 Concept II Rowing machines
    3 Cybex ArcTrainers
    1 Stairmaster stepping machine
    Full line of selectorized strength training machines including an abdominal machine.
    Free weights including: flat / incline / decline benches, 2-75lb dumbbells, 2 smith press machines, and 10-110lb curl bars
    Other equipment including jump ropes, stability balls, and medicine balls are also available.

    I want to work out like 3 times a week (if I am able) and run the other days... I am not looking to win any competitions or get really huge... just want to be in shape is all... good definition (big arms, chest and legs to fit the size).

    any way I have a lot of questions.. not even sure if anyone can help me out... just thought I would give it a shot.

    Thoughts on RagNOrok-ULTRA ? It looks like you can get it online for 25-35 bucks... that sounds pretty good to me...


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    a simple 3 day split would work fine for lifting: legs and shoulders, chest and tris, back and bis. start with a 3x10 rep/set scheme to get back in the groove, then start mixing it up with high weight low reps weeks, and low weight high rep weeks, and of course changing your accessory lifts every 2-3 weeks (keep bench, squat and deadlift consistant). the goal is to keep your body guessing, and since you're only lifting 3 days a week, not letting your CNS addapt to a certain training style/movements will be key.
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    any idea where I can get a workout schedule? It's been a while, and I o not want to go back to the smith type machines...

    Mon: legs and shoulders
    Tues: run
    Wed: chest and tris
    Thur: run
    Fri: back and bis
    Sat:heavy bag, Jump rope
    Sun: rest or stretch

    I may pull some of the P90X routine into my program?

    Is there a place where I can D/L a routing to get me going? I just am not sure what all to do. I am looking now for a schedule. I know it sounds odd, but I want to just try to have a well rounded schedule to start... And I can mix it up if I need to, I mean I can workout 5+ dys a week??
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    i hope im not breaking any rules by posting this, but go to wannabebig and lok at there routines. the first wannabebig routine is 3 days a week, set up different than what i wrote before, and i think they have one more that 3 days, and then 2 that are 4 days a week. i would suggest doing the first wannabebig program to get you started.
    if posting something that contains a link to another site/forum is against the rules, i appologize and go ahead and delete this post.
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    Do yourself a favor and stick to freeweights with a barbell and some dumbbells. You should have a routine centered around Squats, Deadlifts, and Bench Press. You can also throw in things such as Bent over rows, Pull-ups/Chin-ups, Overhead Press.

    I would look up a program called Starting Strength by Mark Rippetoe. Actually I would advise you buy the book as it also goes in to detail about how to properly perform the bench press, squat, deadlift, overhead press, and power clean. Most people don't even know how to bench with proper form.
    Here is a link that lays out his Starting Strength program if you are too cheap to buy the book:
    Starting Strength

    The link also has other helpful stuff in the site. Good luck.
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    Man thanks guys...

    I am checking those out now...

    Was it Wannabebig - The Original Routine that you recomended Walker11?

    thnx rckvl7 - nice site.

    is it better to do 3 day split or 4 day split?
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    Quote Originally Posted by myrddin View Post
    Man thanks guys...

    I am checking those out now...

    Was it Wannabebig - The Original Routine that you recomended Walker11?

    thnx rckvl7 - nice site.

    is it better to do 3 say split or 4 day split?
    If you follow one of the routines in the link I think they have a three and a four day split.
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    yea, there are 4 different routine: 1, 2,3, and 1.1. i would start with the first routine, becuase you're supposed to progress through them.
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    would it be dumb to do the P90x program 3 times a week? (See my full P90X Schedule attached)

    Phase 1
    Mon:
    Chest & Back

    Tues:
    off - run

    Wed:
    Shoulder & Arms

    Thur:
    off - run

    Fri:
    Legs and Back

    Sat:
    off - heavy bag, jump rope and short run (all or some of these)

    Sun:
    rest or stretch

    P90X has you do that for 3 weeks then you get a rest week:
    you get to do a week of cardio (I will not go into detail)

    phase 2:
    Mon:
    Chest, Shoulders &
    Tirceps

    Tues:
    off - run

    Wed:
    Back and Biceps

    Thur:
    off - run

    Fri:
    Legs and Back

    Sat:
    off - heavy bag, jump rope and short run (all or some of these)

    Sun:
    rest or stretch

    same for 3rd week...

    Phase 3 (combination of all)
    Mon: (Week 1)
    Chest, Shoulders &
    Tirceps

    Tues: (Week 1)
    off - run

    Wed: (Week 1)
    Back and Biceps

    Thur: (Week 1)
    off - run

    Fri: (Week 1)
    Legs and Back

    Sat: (Week 1)
    off - heavy bag, jump rope and short run (all or some of these)

    Sun: (Week 1)
    rest or stretch

    week 2 - Mon and wed alternate:
    Mon - Chest & Back/Chest, Shoulders &
    Tirceps

    Wed - Shoulder & Arms/Back and Biceps

    you get the idea... There of course is more to the P90X workout... I am just trying to see if I should do something like that or just go with the basics. One thing I disliked about P90X is that you do not get to bench (lots of pushups) and it nearly destroyed my shoulders with the amount of pull ups.


    also I am looking at a preworkout drink to replace No Exp. My local GNC only leaves me with White Flood and NO Shotgun and Superpump 250 as a choice...

    White Flood seems to be the favor... thoughts?
    Attached Images Attached Images
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    i know a lot of people that do P90X 3 times a week, but you're not going to put on a lot of size with it. most of the guys i know that tried it got more cut, but lost a good amount of weight.
    for a pre workout drink, to VPX NO Synthesize if your GNC has it, but if you want to save some money go to southcarolinabarbell, *************, or bodybuilding.com for supplements. i've found that even with shipping those places are cheaper the most GNCs.
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    For a pre wo supp. I favor jack3d. I don't use pre wo supps anymore though.. Just eat 1-1.5 hours before gym and load up on some carbs. If your going to follow a routine stick to it, don't mix multiple routines together or else you might as well just go to the gym and lift. If you have been out of the gym too long your recovery may too slow to even follow a program thats for you to decide but I personally like Wendler 5/3/1
    http://www.tmuscle.com/free_online_a..._pure_strength
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    We are in the a similar predicament, except that I'm only 23. An injury forced me to take it easy on workouts for the last 2 weeks. I just finished P90X last week and I'm about to do the Madcow Intermediate Bill Starr 5x5, which is 3 days per week. I'm going to run/swim/box on the off days as well.

    Also White Flood works better than NO Xplode for me. That company, Controlled Labs seems to be pretty popular among others as well.
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    Wendlers 5/3/1 is great, but not for a relative beginner. I strongly suggest you just follow the starting strength program. You will get stronger, and you will add muscle(provided you eat properly and get enough sleep). Once you stop making linear progress on it, then 5/3/1 would be an excellent choice.
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    thanks guys... I will ditch P90X for now and give a good trial run on a program. I am not sure yet which one I will pick but I cant thank you all enough for your support.

    real cool of you guys.
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    I guess I am confused... I found a spread sheet for the 5/3/1 program... Looks like you only do 4 things (Deadlift, Mil. Press, Squat, Bench) I can understand the 5/3/1 but I was under the impression that you need a full routine like this one:

    Day 1 : Chest and Back
    Chest
    Flat Barbell Bench Press : 2 x 6-8 reps
    Low Incline Dumbbell Press : 2 x 6-8 reps
    Dips : 2 x 6-8 reps
    Back
    Chin ups : 2 x 6-8 reps
    Deadlifts : 2 x 6-8 reps
    Barbell Rows : 2 x 6-8 reps
    Shrugs : 1 x 10 reps
    Day 2 : OFF
    Day 3 : Legs
    Squats : 2 x 6-8 reps
    Hack Squats : 2 x 6-8 reps
    Leg Curls : 2 x 6-8 reps
    Straight Legged Deadlifts : 2 x 6-8 reps
    Standing Calve Raises : 4 x 10 reps
    Day 4 : OFF
    Day 5 : Shoulders, Triceps and Biceps
    Shoulders
    Military Press in Rack : 2 x 6-8 reps
    Seated Dumbbell Press : 2 x 6-8 reps
    Standing Lateral Raises : 2 x 10 reps
    Triceps
    Narrow Grip bench Press : 2 x 6-8 reps
    French Press : 2 x 6-8 reps
    Biceps
    Barbell Curls : 2 x 6-8 reps
    Hammer Curls : 1 x 6-8 reps
    Day 6 : OFF
    Day 7 : OFF

    Abs to be done on any training day of personal choice.
    Crunches : 4 x 8-10 reps


    I am not looking to put on size in mass but want bigger muscle (did I say that right). I am a pretty strong guy, but I want bigger arms, chest and so on...

    Im sorry guys, I hate to be the one asking questions but I want to be sure I understand is all.

    I have attached the XLS for you to see or use... please feel free to comment on my above workout plan - from wannabebig...
    Attached Files Attached Files
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    IMO you shouldn't do 5-3-1. while it is a great program, i don't think that would be the right one ofr you at this time. try the Starting Strength routine or the wannabebig routine for 6-10 weeks, then after getting your base look into 5-3-1.
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    Quote Originally Posted by walker11 View Post
    IMO you shouldn't do 5-3-1. while it is a great program, i don't think that would be the right one ofr you at this time. try the Starting Strength routine or the wannabebig routine for 6-10 weeks, then after getting your base look into 5-3-1.

    Thanks man... that at least gives me some direction. I will pick the one that sounds closest to what I am looking for...

    big help...
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    Quote Originally Posted by myrddin View Post
    Thanks man... that at least gives me some direction. I will pick the one that sounds closest to what I am looking for...

    big help...
    5/3/1 focuses mainly on those lifts, because they are the most important. After you do that days main lift, then you can do a couple assistance lifts if you choose. So after a bench day you can do dumbbell presses, dips, tricep extensions etc. Just don't go overboard on the assistance lifts. I wouldn't do more than two, you want to be focusing most of your energy on the main lift.

    Still 5/3/1 isn't a good choice for a beginner. You can actually make faster progress following a beginner program(a good beginner program will focus on some basic compound movements: deadlift, squat, bench press, overhead press, bent over barbell rows, pull-ups/chin-ups) they won't have much else. That's really all you need at the start and can generally add weight/reps each time you go to the gym. All the extra stuff really isn't needed at the beginning.

    Edit:Once you stall out on linear progression, reset, and stall out again, then I would look at something like 5/3/1, though you could probably even reset again and make more progress.
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    Quote Originally Posted by rckvl7 View Post
    5/3/1 focuses mainly on those lifts, because they are the most important. After you do that days main lift, then you can do a couple assistance lifts if you choose. So after a bench day you can do dumbbell presses, dips, tricep extensions etc. Just don't go overboard on the assistance lifts. I wouldn't do more than two, you want to be focusing most of your energy on the main lift.

    Still 5/3/1 isn't a good choice for a beginner. You can actually make faster progress following a beginner program(a good beginner program will focus on some basic compound movements: deadlift, squat, bench press, overhead press, bent over barbell rows, pull-ups/chin-ups) they won't have much else. That's really all you need at the start and can generally add weight/reps each time you go to the gym. All the extra stuff really isn't needed at the beginning.

    Edit:Once you stall out on linear progression, reset, and stall out again, then I would look at something like 5/3/1, though you could probably even reset again and make more progress.
    Excellent reply.

    OP one of the best programs you can follow as a novice is the starting strength program by Mark Rippetoe.

    Workout A:
    1- Squat: 3x5
    2- Bench Press: 3x5
    3- Deadlift: 1x5
    4- Barbell Row: 3x5

    Workout B:
    1- Squat: 3x5
    2- Press: 3x5
    3- Power Cleans: 5x3
    4- Chins: 3x5

    I included rows and chins because they give the upper back muscles some extra work to help promote proper balance in the retractors and protractors, as well as the internal and external rotators of the scapulae.

    Try to do this three times per week. Afterwords, I'd do Bill Starr's 5x5 and then do 5/3/1.
    Former Marine, UT-BSN, NSCA-CPT, NASM-CPT, CSCS
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    The GNC guy sold me on jack3d, he convinced me to at least give it a try... plus it was only like 35 bucks. Any advice as to what I need to add to that? Or should I just start there and start working out...

    I am going to start with the wannabebig 1.0 program... its a bit closer to what I am used too is all. I will follow it to the "T". for off days I am going to run and hit the heave bag (when time allows).

    I have been eating 5 meals a day (all high protean) since last year with P90X... so I am good there... (of cores I need to tighten that up ).

    Like I said, not looking to win anything, I just want to be in good shape and be healthy.

    few things I am concerned about though... I have had back Sergey in the past which left me with a bad back, so I know if I lift certain ways or if I pick up something wrong my back will hurt for a long time or worse... not sure why it still does that... Had a discectomy (herniated disk)... So I am trying to figure out what of the exercises I may need to alter or just be extra careful with. I had zero problems with P90X but it had to do with a lot of phisical exercise though...


    anyway... thank you all... I start my program tomorrow.
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