over-training, or under-recuperation?

[nynone]

do you guys believe in over-training, or under-recuperation? i mean, i concentrate on one part daily (like arms, chest, legs, back, shoulders, and core all on different days). I know that guys back in the 70's hit each part 3x/week, and they got good results. i train each part once a week, to about maybe a week and a half (i got a funky work/class schedule). let's say i wanted to hit twice a week for each part, so i hit let's say... arms and legs on one day, chest and back another, then shoulders and core another day, take a day off, then switch up the combos for three days, another day off, etc.? would you guys think it would be over-training? if not, recommend the best ways to help my body recover the best?

the only reason i'm asking is because the ramblin' freak column in MD mag sparked my thoughts this month (the new march issue). valentino pointed out that guys back in the 70's hit 3x/week each body part, and used less roids than today's top bodybuilders. now, guys take more juice, and train 1x/week for each part of their body. and he mentioned that now more than 1x/week is overtraining even with higher "juice levels" (per say).

what's everyone's take on this? you hit 1, 2, or 3x/week? and what do you guys think would be best? stick to my current routine of once a week per part, or bump it up to twice or three times? diet ideas for recovery i would love to hear as well!!! throw it at me. i enjoy new ideas/philosophies on training and dieting.

 

[bigdognhb]

Read the same article. Im not sure where to stand. When I started training my freshman year of highschool the rule we used was at least 48hrs rest before working that muscle again directly. It worked great for me but I was just begining and my test levels were peaking. I think the question now becomes... Are the guys bigger now than in the 70s because of the increased steroid use or because with scientific advancement in the study of the human body that todays training does produce better results? I think it is a little mix of both

 

[kingk0ng]

You need to be training muscle groups more than once per week. Your body knows movements not muscle groups. You need to be training your whole body and not splitting it up into muscle groups. Think "squats" not "legs.. think "pullups" not "lats". Get what I'm saying? You will get a better endocrine system response this way as well as faster progress and recuperation.

Second, overtraining is a commonly overused and misunderstood word. It does not refer to working out muscles more than once per week or whatever. It refers to a psychological condition from too much stress on the nervous system for too long. If you were overtraining, you would know; it is a condition that cannot go unnoticed.

Third, under-recuperation is a possibility, but under eating is more so the problem. Muscle recuperates at a different rate depending on the stress it is given, as well as how specifically it has adapted to recovering. If you give your body seven days rest between workouts you will have a naturally slower recuperation rate than someone who trains his squats three times per week.

You should take advantage of higher frequency training in the beginner stages and continue to do so until progress slows from it becoming too difficult and you need to use other methods of overload through periodization as a way to increase muscle work capacity.

This article will explain to you about overtraining:

http://www.facebook.com/topic.php?uid=18905604301&topic=7368

 

[bigdognhb]

I agree that the term overtraining is used WAY too often. I think it also depends on your goals too however. When I used to fight I would have 5-6 2hr MMA workouts a week plus at least 5 days of weights and cardio. You need to make sure you have the food intake to support it and you need to have your rest time too. When I say rest I dont mean day off. I mean sleep and simple relaxation time. I move in two weeks to TX from WI and plan on going at it with the same intensity that I used to. I cant do the MMA part anymore due to a neck injury but I plan to focus just as much attention to getting big and training powerlifting/strongman style. Im going to Metroflex Houston. I CANT WAIT. Its gonna be sick

 

[nynone]

This article will explain to you about overtraining:

facebook(dot)com/topic.php?uid=18905604301&topic=7368

thanks for the link. good points made. and thank you everyone for your thoughts. i think this might be appropriate to ask here as well: is soreness of the muscle due to lactic acid, or DOMS (delayed on-site muscle soreness)? In my class i'm currently taking, it says that the soreness is due to DOMS, but my old trainer said it was due to the crystallization of lactic acid in the muscle. any clarification would be awesome.

and kingk0ng, how would you recommend i train now? i mean, mix in a few body parts on different days? for example: decline press and flies, cable X/overs, lateral pull downs or pull ups (super-set with either reverse grip, or narrow grip), deadlifts, squat press, and finish with cardio. then another day i can mix it up again with different things, etc.. or is there something else you had in mind?

currently, i've started mixing body parts (except on leg days). so i've been doing arms and chest one day, back and core, shoulders arms, core and chest, then arms and back. and throw in legs some days, or heavy cardio. would you find that effective? i'm just so used to training one part per day, it's hard to go otherwise when i walk in haha.

*edit: i can't post urls yet, so thats why the link is different haha

 

[kingk0ng]

thanks for the link. good points made. and thank you everyone for your thoughts. i think this might be appropriate to ask here as well: is soreness of the muscle due to lactic acid, or DOMS (delayed on-site muscle soreness)? In my class i'm currently taking, it says that the soreness is due to DOMS, but my old trainer said it was due to the crystallization of lactic acid in the muscle. any clarification would be awesome.

No one has ever proved the cause of DOMS. The cause of immediate soreness, which is the "burn", is lactic acid. Most researchers believe the eccentric phase of a lift is what causes the DOMS.

and kingk0ng, how would you recommend i train now? i mean, mix in a few body parts on different days? for example: decline press and flies, cable X/overs, lateral pull downs or pull ups (super-set with either reverse grip, or narrow grip), deadlifts, squat press, and finish with cardio. then another day i can mix it up again with different things, etc.. or is there something else you had in mind?

I would drop the isolations and focus on adding weight to your big compounds. Movement variation is fine, but should be done on a different day. For example it's better to train like this:

Monday- Flat Bench
Wednesday- Incline
Friday- Dips

Than it is to train like this..

Monday-- Flat, incline, dips
Monday-- flat, incline, dips

The frequency:volume ratio suggests heavier weights with lower volume has a variety of benefits.

* It allows you to recuperate faster while still getting the overload.
* It allows you more opportunity for personal records and development.
* It presents a better hormonal response for the whole body.
* It allows better balance in the training routine

Depending on how long you've been training I would have you do the starting strength routine or Starr's 5x5. The Ectomorph workout posted by suncloud is good too, so is DC or HST.

currently, i've started mixing body parts (except on leg days). so i've been doing arms and chest one day, back and core, shoulders arms, core and chest, then arms and back. and throw in legs some days, or heavy cardio. would you find that effective? i'm just so used to training one part per day, it's hard to go otherwise when i walk in haha.

Don't split your body up into muscles and work them. Work your whole body for the reasons mentioned above.

 

[nynone]

:thanks a lot man. this should help. i don't really understand the whole DC program, it seemed like it was sectioning off each muscle group a day, but i'll try some of these. you have any ideas as to help figure out if your endo/ecto/mesomorph? random net searches don't seem to help figure it out. they are too general. and i haven't really found any posts here either. maybe i missed one? :dunno:

 

[kingk0ng]

:thanks a lot man. this should help. i don't really understand the whole DC program, it seemed like it was sectioning off each muscle group a day, but i'll try some of these. you have any ideas as to help figure out if your endo/ecto/mesomorph? random net searches don't seem to help figure it out. they are too general. and i haven't really found any posts here either. maybe i missed one? :dunno:

DC uses rep pauses. As far as the workout routine, it is an upper/lower split.

It doesn't matter if you're endo, ecto or meso. If you have trouble gaining weight eat more food. If you have trouble losing weight eat less food.

 

[nynone]

DC uses rep pauses. As far as the workout routine, it is an upper/lower split.

good to know, i'll keep it in mind