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    Young kids


    Hey guys I have a different question. I know it has been discussed about how young is safe to start weight training, and typically early teens seems to be the consensus to start any type of supervised weight training. My question is this though. My nephew is 7 and just started pee-wee football. He is kind of small, I guess most 7 year olds are. He plays rec basketball, finished t-ball and is starting football. Does anyone know if there would be anything dangerous about having him start a push up, sit up, pull up regiment, maybe twice a week. He is very active and playing football is going to require some upper body strength. Also basketball, a little more strength for shooting would help. I'm just curious, i haven't mentioned it to him or anything yet. Just looking to satisfy my curiosity. BTW, my brother, his step dad, isn't in very good shape. So I thought if it isn't going to be detrimental to him, maybe my brother can help him and benefit at the same time.

    Thanks for the responses.

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    Any thoughts from anyone?
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    I would talk to his coach and see what kind of training they are going to implement. Maybe some light bodyweight exercises. He is still young to be weight training.
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    My nephew is 8 and also playing football in the 80lbs division. He is a string bean, and I would love to get some bw exercises going, however, he does a lot of training with the team, so I try not to intefere.
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    Anything BW would help. Dips, pull-ups/chins, lunges, even box jumps would be a good idea, but don't expect any sort of huge leaps (no pun intended) in performance. He's still a good 5 years away from any real test production.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rodja View Post
    He's still a good 5 years away from any real test production.
    I think this is the real key here. I know guys that advocate lifting at a young age, but say do not push them hard. I am not sure what real science thier is about not starting until your teens. Kind of something that has been repeated quite a bit. I know alot of powerlifters kids have started before their teens with no ill affects.
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    Quote Originally Posted by jcp2 View Post
    I think this is the real key here. I know guys that advocate lifting at a young age, but say do not push them hard. I am not sure what real science thier is about not starting until your teens. Kind of something that has been repeated quite a bit. I know alot of powerlifters kids have started before their teens with no ill affects.
    Joint, tendon, ligament and connective tissue damage.

    I'll effects show when your are older and your joints and ligaments start to demonstarte the signs of premature aging from premature wear and tear.
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    Quote Originally Posted by B5150 View Post
    Joint, tendon, ligament and connective tissue damage.

    I'll effects show when your are older and your joints and ligaments start to demonstarte the signs of premature aging from premature wear and tear.
    Wolf's Law could also apply here and help to strengthen them. Besides, in this age, anything to promote fitness and activity is a much better alternative.
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    I don't know who this Wolf is or this law you speak of, but yes, I agree.

    But one would need to employ training principles that are designed to strengthen connective tissue and tendons.

    I have seem the stuff the some old school P.E. football coach have most teens doing. Not good.
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    Quote Originally Posted by B5150 View Post
    I don't know who this Wolf is or his law, but yes, I agree.

    But one would need to employ training principles that are designed to strengthen connective tissue and tendons.

    I have seem the stuff the some old school P.E. football coach have most teens doing. Not good.
    That's a different beast. They also thought that no water breaks would toughen up there football players.

    Wolff's Law

    "...bone in a healthy person or animal will adapt to the loads it is placed under. If loading on a particular bone increases, the bone will remodel itself over time to become stronger to resist that sort of loading.The external cortical portion of the bone becomes thicker as a result. The converse is true as well: if the loading on a bone decreases, the bone will become weaker due to turnover, it is less metabolically costly to maintain and there is no stimulus for continued remodeling that is required to maintain bone mass."
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    Quote Originally Posted by B5150 View Post
    I don't know who this Wolf is or this law you speak of, but yes, I agree.

    But one would need to employ training principles that are designed to strengthen connective tissue and tendons.

    I have seem the stuff the some old school P.E. football coach have most teens doing. Not good.
    So, my 9 year old daughter's PE coach (I think she could out bench me, BTW) has her doing pushups and sit ups. Should I voice oposition to this? I'm not so concerned with the calastetics.
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    My 8 yo duaghter trains competitive gymnastics. I don't have issue with it because it is all body weight/strengthening/stretching. But she also see's that all of her trainers have hip issues and some, much older women, even replacement. A womans hips are flexible but not that flexible
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rodja View Post
    That's a different beast. They also thought that no water breaks would toughen up there football players.

    Wolff's Law

    "...bone in a healthy person or animal will adapt to the loads it is placed under. If loading on a particular bone increases, the bone will remodel itself over time to become stronger to resist that sort of loading.The external cortical portion of the bone becomes thicker as a result. The converse is true as well: if the loading on a bone decreases, the bone will become weaker due to turnover, it is less metabolically costly to maintain and there is no stimulus for continued remodeling that is required to maintain bone mass."
    Again, I agree, but that is in regard to bone density. It's pretty common knowledge, at least in us older men and women, that resistance training promotes and maintains healthy bone density. My concern is connective tissue, tendons, ligaments, cartalige, not bones.
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    Quote Originally Posted by B5150 View Post
    Again, I agree, but that is in regard to bone density. It's pretty common knowledge, at least in us older men and women, that resistance training promotes and maintains healthy bone density. My concern is connective tissue, tendons, ligaments, cartalige, not bones.
    Davis' Law is the corollary for connective tissue.
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    IMHO pee wee football isnt the best idea for a young child. Its extremely unhealthy for such young kids to be pounding on each other.
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    Thanks for the responses. Yeah I realize he isn't going to put on mass or anything like that. I just figured some pushups and pullups might help improve his strength a little so he can enjoy playing a bit more.
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    Quote Originally Posted by B5150 View Post
    I'll effects show when your are older and your joints and ligaments start to demonstarte the signs of premature aging from premature wear and tear.
    Show me some literature. I have never really seen much. And i have met a few former competitive gymnasts, who in their 20's were in bad shape.
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    Quote Originally Posted by jcp2 View Post
    Show me some literature. I have never really seen much. And i have met a few former competitive gymnasts, who in their 20's were in bad shape.
    No disrespect, but I'm not researching for literature. I have see first hand evidence with tow daughters in gymnastics, one in her twenties with knee and hip problems. My youngest daughters gym is run by a women who competed and has had double hip replacement and her son, who trains my daughter and competed under the mothers training, is next for knee and hip repairs.

    As a HS Baseball player, catcher, my knees are shot from excessive stretching and bending, my right arm elbow and shoulder are in bad shape from throwing very hard, all of which was done with little to no intelligent strength and conditioning coaching to prevent long term injury.

    But go ahead and run a search. I am sure there is plenty of sports medicine injury literature out there.
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    Quote Originally Posted by B5150 View Post
    No disrespect, but I'm not researching for literature. I have see first hand evidence with tow daughters in gymnastics, one in her twenties with knee and hip problems. My youngest daughters gym is run by a women who competed and has had double hip replacement and her son, who trains my daughter and competed under the mothers training, is next for knee and hip repairs.

    As a HS Baseball player, catcher, my knees are shot from excessive stretching and bending, my right arm elbow and shoulder are in bad shape from throwing very hard, all of which was done with little to no intelligent strength and conditioning coaching to prevent long term injury.

    But go ahead and run a search. I am sure there is plenty of sports medicine injury literature out there.

    What does this have to do with weight lifting at a young age? So what you are saying is kids shouldn't lift weights at a young age, but competitive gymastics is OK? I really don't care either way, as younger kids have more fun **** to do then spend time in the gym, but i dont' get the logic.
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    Quote Originally Posted by jcp2 View Post
    What does this have to do with weight lifting at a young age? So what you are saying is kids shouldn't lift weights at a young age, but competitive gymastics is OK? I really don't care either way, as younger kids have more fun **** to do then spend time in the gym, but i dont' get the logic.
    I forgot the point of this thread. There must a be a law that applies.
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    Quote Originally Posted by jcp2 View Post
    What does this have to do with weight lifting at a young age? So what you are saying is kids shouldn't lift weights at a young age, but competitive gymastics is OK? I really don't care either way, as younger kids have more fun **** to do then spend time in the gym, but i dont' get the logic.
    Uhm...I believe what he is saying is that in any competitive sport that overuse of tendons and joints can often cause permanent damage as you get older when started young.

    He was stating that even the gymnasists have issues!

    Childrens bones are not strong enough and still growing in length and this can sometimes cause growth issues.

    And their muscles and joints were not meant for the kind of repetitive lifting that we do as we get older with anyting but light weight and less reps.

    Everything in moderation!!!
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    Quote Originally Posted by crader View Post
    Uhm...I believe what he is saying is that in any competitive sport that overuse of tendons and joints can often cause permanent damage as you get older when started young.

    He was stating that even the gymnasists have issues!

    Childrens bones are not strong enough and still growing in length and this can sometimes cause growth issues.

    And their muscles and joints were not meant for the kind of repetitive lifting that we do as we get older with anyting but light weight and less reps.

    Everything in moderation!!!
    I don't know why you say "even gymnasts have issues" I cannot think of a sport that children are put in at such a young age that leaves so many permanently with physical problems. Thier are lots of kids who lift weights at a relatively young age and are fine, i have never heard of kids doing too much lifting to the point of hurting themselves. If you can do pushups and bodyweight exercises, thier is really no reason light weight lifting is going to cause problems. And as far as lifting while growing, I don't see how that is an issue. We start lifting long before we stop growing.
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    Quote Originally Posted by jcp2 View Post
    I don't know why you say "even gymnasts have issues" I cannot think of a sport that children are put in at such a young age that leaves so many permanently with physical problems. Thier are lots of kids who lift weights at a relatively young age and are fine, i have never heard of kids doing too much lifting to the point of hurting themselves. If you can do pushups and bodyweight exercises, thier is really no reason light weight lifting is going to cause problems. And as far as lifting while growing, I don't see how that is an issue. We start lifting long before we stop growing.
    You seem to be missing the point - the bigger picture- the long term effects.

    The debilitating effects of premature and over taxation of tendons, ligaments and cartilage of pre pubescent and teenager certainly not manifest itself until many years later.

    Let's remember the topic at hand was a kid looking to put on size and weight for football at 7 yo. Body weight exercises are not at all unhealthy and are a good way for him to develop the tendon and connective tissue strength that I was referring to.

    Weight lifting with progressive overloads will strain and possibly damage young tendons that have not had the time to develop and strengthen. Muscle contractile strength even at that age is still likely greater than the tendon connective tissue strength. Traditional weight training is a progressive overload of weight that will challenge and or compromise connective tissue integrity.

    Well condition trainers injure themselves in the very same way and these injuries may linger for a lifetime. A young, under developed pre pubescent need not expose themselves to such risk of injury at such a young age.

    It is a fact that gymnastic girls suffer long term hip injuries/damage from splits and straddle splits from the constant and progress stretching of the pelvic range of motion over years and years of training. A girls starts out with limited range of motion and over years of progressive forced stretching they move the ligament and tendon range far greater than its natural capacity was designed to tolerate. By their early 20 to 30 years of age the damage can demonstrate itself in many varied degrees, some as minimal as arthritic types of effects and as time progresses, and as I stated, gymnast athlete women now in their 40's to early 50's are getting hip replacement surgery. My daughter is trained by one and many of her colleagues are experiencing the same.









    So what you are failing to recognize is that what you do now will have effects on you later.
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    I think it depends on volume, and type of exercise. Its one thing to have a kid do push ups and situps a few times a week, but totally different to make a 8 yr old do say,.... 5 sets of bench, a few sets of flys, dips, etc, lol( full workout routines that an adult, or young adult could accomplish, recover from, and not have any risks of growth defects or safety issues.) Overall I do believe active lifestyle and rational teaching thereof, will only make their life better.

    An example of how workouts affect younger children is my little brother. He is 6 yrs old, and is one of the most muscular children I have seen for such a young age. Hes not like that little Hercules kid, but he has good amount of mass for his age and strength to follow. His real mother, my aunt, was a druggie and alcoholic. My mom adopted him without knowing what the full risks were as he is a FAS baby, or Fetal Alcohol Syndrome baby. The first years were pretty hard, but they fought though it, and once a week since he was born he has gone to therapy. There they taught him all kinds of pushing, pulling, and climbing exercises. Hes now pretty much beat FAS and ended his last therapy session last week, as they believe he has outgrown and progressed through the condition, and the effects the therapy itself have had on his body are obvious. Also for the past couple years hes been very agile, and "off the wall" doing flips, somersaults, handstands etc. Ive taught him to do full pushups, upside down "up against the wall" pushups, and situps. The kids gotta a six pack coming in, and is ripped to the bone. I personally think that his previous condition and athletic abilities have in the long term helped him, will help him... and I have no doubt in my mind he will be the next best NFL QB, top gymnast, or any other athlete he wants to be when he grow up.
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    [QUOTE=B5150;2112507]You seem to be missing the point - the bigger picture- the long term effects.

    The debilitating effects of premature and over taxation of tendons, ligaments and cartilage of pre pubescent and teenager certainly not manifest itself until many years later.

    Let's remember the topic at hand was a kid looking to put on size and weight for football at 7 yo. Body weight exercises are not at all unhealthy and are a good way for him to develop the tendon and connective tissue strength that I was referring to.


    Since I am the OP, I will remind you of the topic at hand. I never mentioned once about my nephew wanting to put on size and weight for football. My question was in fact is it ok to have him do some bodyweight exercises, situps, pushups and pullups. I never mentioned wanting to get him weight training to put on muscle and size. I wondered if BW exercises would build some strength so he have a bit easier time with basketball, baseball, and now football.

    Thanks for the responses.
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    Absolutely. A lot of the lads I coach for volleyball (14-16 year olds) know I'm into weight training and they are always asking me about it. To this extent I build a lot of bodyweight exercises into warmups and fitness sessions, stuff like squats, lunges, burpees, pushups etc. I look at this as building a base for future weight training where I can supervise and encourage proper technique.

    I reckon that serious weight training should not be started until at least after the major growth spurt eg well into the onset of puberty.

    Bodyweight exercises replicate natural loads and ROMs, for example you aren't going to stop a kid from climbing a tree because it might impinge their future growth. I say by all means encourage general fitness and bodyweight stuff for kids of any age!
  

  
 

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