deadlifting and squats
- 06-15-2009, 01:50 AM
deadlifting and squats
i've been lifting 9+ years, gone through many different programs and lifted for many many different purposes...
lately i've come to the conclusion that i prefer to not do deadlifts and squats in the same cycle (i run a 6wk periodization right now)...
i seem to notice much more growth and progression when i stick to one of the two, and switch to the other when i start my program over.
i still run stiff-legged deads continuously...
my question is does anyone else do this? i ask the more serious lifters at my gym but 99.9% of them don't deadlift period.
am i overlooking anything by only doing one and not the other? i have plenty of rationale for doing things my way but am basically looking for any good arguments for running both deadlifts and squats at the same time.
sry about the rambling lol it's late... anyways, thx for the read and replies!
- 06-15-2009, 06:40 AM
I think it's a good concept to explore.
I usually alternate them, I'll do DL's one week and squats the next.
When I train both exercises in the same week, every week, it takes a harsh toll on my body that forces me to take a break.
- 06-15-2009, 06:52 AM
i used do periods of no deads for 4 weeks, then back in for 4 weeks
just me personally i would never give up squats and i also do straight leg deadlifts every week
--> but another great way is deadlift every other week, just so you dont get overrun.
--> or straight leg one week then deadlift the next
i won't diminish their importance, you gotta deadlift. but squats , deads, and straight leg is a lot of the same muscles and an easy way to burn not just your nerves out but get really fatigued over time (if you are going all out 110%)
reducing set volume works wonders as well. at least for me. 1 set of deads, 1 set straight leg, 1-2 sets squats a week
06-15-2009, 06:57 AM
yea I don't do them both on the same cycle either. But my reason is different. It's because when i do, those two killers make me seem like a GirlFromAus in terms of recovery. Last year, I remember doing them in the same SESSION. I did 5 x 5 Deadlifts then followed it with 4 x 10 squats.... it took me 4 days to recover (wtf.. i know).
06-15-2009, 11:02 AM
If you want to do both try doing one set of deads for around 5 reps after you squat. The dead does not need a ton of volume.
06-15-2009, 11:25 AM
06-15-2009, 12:10 PM
06-15-2009, 12:30 PM
I have always seemed to get overall better growth doing both. However, i sometimes take the deadlift out for months a time. (duh factor- calories have to be there)
deadlifts for me, 6-8 sets tops, poundage and reps have an inverse relationship.
squats i do for at least 45mins if not hour+........ramp up, then back down to 135 and go nuts with the reps, stance and tempo variations.............
my legs have responded well to my training..........weak as a girl, but i got decent legs.
06-15-2009, 12:32 PM
06-15-2009, 01:40 PM
06-15-2009, 01:45 PM
I've had good luck doing both every week, but only go heavy on one of them. I train them both on Friday. So one Friday I do heavy SQ's and light DL's and the next week do light SQ's and heavy DL's. You can get the benefits of both exercises this way without killing yourself.
06-15-2009, 01:55 PM
I didnt think you were supposed to do deads and squats the same time, mainly for your back. I know I couldnt anyway. I tried the old school Commy way of only maxing on deads once a month, and the rest of the time doing a reasonable 5x5. It helped for me to grow, as well as not wear me out so bad.
06-15-2009, 02:13 PM
glad to know i'm not alone! and there i was thinking i was just a giant vagina for hating to do both in the same week. thanks guys.
06-15-2009, 02:34 PM
I'm currently doing squats, deads and incline/flat bench on the same day, but I'm just switching things up from the norm. I'm doing a little exploring myself.
NSCA - CSCS
06-15-2009, 02:57 PM
06-15-2009, 03:06 PM
No one put it in stone. Just always "heard" that from "them". But personally my lower back couldn't do it. Also the next days workout would be affected, I would think, anyway.
06-15-2009, 03:40 PM
squats twice and deads once
deads twice and squats once
its madness i tell ya
06-15-2009, 03:45 PM
06-15-2009, 03:49 PM
I'm doing both in the same session right now. I actually find the static contraction from the squats warm up my erectors really well before I pull. The prime downfall I'm experiencing with this is general exhaustion.
NSCA - CSCS
06-15-2009, 04:26 PM
Thats what I felt, was overall exhaustion. Day 1 was squats/legs and Day 2 was deads/back. I could barely get out of bed on Wednesday. Moved back to Fri and was more rested, and generally felt better. I actually need to change my dead workout anyway. I lifted every week for at least 3 months and only got up to a 405 max. So im no guru on the subject.
06-15-2009, 04:34 PM
NSCA - CSCS
06-16-2009, 01:32 AM
YES! i mentioned this in a thread awhile back and it kinda got shot down by the usaual "shut up and squat" crowd... but i feel that barbell squat dont give me the pump burn etc. like machine squats. idk they just dont. especially with heavy deadlifts heavy bench and heavy squat. My shoulders and lower back get sore and eventually i feel like breaking down even if i only lift 3 days a week.
Deadlift heavy going 3 reps till i hit 50-75 pounds close to my max then i do ORM.. and work the rest of my back..
i do legs heavy with machines it has gotten me sweet pumps.
06-16-2009, 10:50 AM
06-16-2009, 11:05 AM
It depends on your rep range, recovery ability, and goals. I've done both in the same week for years, but once I started MMA, I pretty much scrapped that. I only occasionally do either of them anymore to save my lower back.
M.Ed. Ex Phys
06-16-2009, 07:31 PM
Definitely a killer on your CNS that's for sure. I found that when I make my own routines DLing every 2 weeks works perfect for me while maintaining my squats weekly, sometimes my deadlifts replace my squats depending on how many days a week I squat.
I've found replacing DL with racklifts and goodmornings for a cycle is very good for a change up and to absolutely destroy plateaus.
06-16-2009, 11:44 PM
dorian yates even said he didnt do barbell squat because it didnt give him good enough growth. works for some not for others. id take dorians advice over urs tho no offense.
06-17-2009, 12:19 AM
dorian yates got a small muscle tear that made him give up squats for quite some time, during the switch he found the hack squat machine and leg press gave him better growth.
everybody's body is different since we all have different proportions, etc.
i think the squat is very important as an overall mass builder. and i believe leg press etc has its place as well. but you need to remember unless you are training with intensity and form like dorian yates on those exercises you will not get the growth out of them that he did.
also, just because you dont get pumped on squats doesnt mean they are not simulating growth. you cannot use blood pump as an indicator for muscle growth.
if your back and shoulders hurt from squats some form checks may be in order
06-17-2009, 12:35 AM
i just meant its a fact
heavy bench = sore shoulders
heavy deadlift = sore lower back
heavy squats= sore lower back
my problem is my squats respectable i think at least 365 at 175 pounds? but i dont have size. and i feel like i gain more size when i use the machines? because it takes stablizer muscles out and puts more focus on my legs which is my goal currently.
06-17-2009, 12:53 AM
06-17-2009, 01:04 AM
06-17-2009, 08:53 AM
Brownstone, try doing some high rep sets of hacks to around failure, like 2x20 then bust out a couple sets of squats.
Also if all you are getting is a sore lower back from pulling, you may have very week posterior which is very common and your hams and glutes can't take any of the load. I started deadlifting at 24 years old and could not deadlift 300 lbs properly.
06-17-2009, 09:04 PM
and my DL form is good not being cocky but we have a guy at my gym who pulled 700 or so at a show and he said my form was real impressive for a young one...i guess its the whole back thats sore after a back workout.
but i was thinking bout doing the hack squats then hitting back squats what rep ranges tho
06-17-2009, 10:13 PM
Not a lecture, just a guess. Unless someone does real posterior work every week thier posterior will be weak.
06-19-2009, 03:50 AM
yo my hams are really stiff like they dont look huge but if i try to bring em up and touch my ass its pathetic i cant even get 1/2 way i dont think lol... and my asss is huge since i been deadlifting heavy.
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