Dc training? - AnabolicMinds.com

Dc training?

Page 1 of 4 123 ... Last
  1. Advanced Member
    cmp007's Avatar
    Stats
    6'1"  190 lbs.
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Age
    30
    Posts
    564
    Answers
    0
    Rep Power
    427

    Dc training?


    So for you all out there who have done DC training and stuck with it for awhile how were your gains? Im looking for more of the size aspect. Im kinda iffy on trying it because of the heavy weight it wants you to use but im thinking of giving it a shot. Just want to see what other people got from it if you dont mind sharing your experiences.

  2. New Member
    GymRat7197's Avatar
    Stats
    5'7"  185 lbs.
    Join Date
    May 2009
    Age
    25
    Posts
    361
    Answers
    0
    Rep Power
    246

    I know what I'm about to post isn't relevent to the subject.

    But could someone post this routine? I've heard a lot about it yet never saw it's link or anything.

  3. Advanced Member
    cmp007's Avatar
    Stats
    6'1"  190 lbs.
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Age
    30
    Posts
    564
    Answers
    0
    Rep Power
    427

    Quote Originally Posted by GymRat7197 View Post
    I know what I'm about to post isn't relevent to the subject.

    But could someone post this routine? I've heard a lot about it yet never saw it's link or anything.
    http://www.bodybuilding.com/fun/wotw53.htm

    •   
       

  4. New Member
    GymRat7197's Avatar
    Stats
    5'7"  185 lbs.
    Join Date
    May 2009
    Age
    25
    Posts
    361
    Answers
    0
    Rep Power
    246

    Thanks. I yahoo searched it as soon as I posted this. It looks a bit similiar to Max-OT.

  5. Advanced Member
    cmp007's Avatar
    Stats
    6'1"  190 lbs.
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Age
    30
    Posts
    564
    Answers
    0
    Rep Power
    427

    anyone have any feedback?

  6. New Member
    GymRat7197's Avatar
    Stats
    5'7"  185 lbs.
    Join Date
    May 2009
    Age
    25
    Posts
    361
    Answers
    0
    Rep Power
    246

    Everyone responds differently to routines. The only way to know if this is going to work for you by trying it and see.

  7. Advanced Member
    cmp007's Avatar
    Stats
    6'1"  190 lbs.
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Age
    30
    Posts
    564
    Answers
    0
    Rep Power
    427

    Quote Originally Posted by GymRat7197 View Post
    Everyone responds differently to routines. The only way to know if this is going to work for you by trying it and see.
    Yes I know that I just wanted some feedback about peoples experiences.

  8. Advanced Member
    Random181's Avatar
    Stats
    5'11"  0 lbs.
    Join Date
    Nov 2008
    Posts
    674
    Answers
    0
    Rep Power
    409

    You should not be DC training, this is obvious from your posts, if you are afraid on heavy weight find a easier program, DC is for those advanced enough to work with extremely high intensity and HEAVY HEAVY weight, find a lighter program like 5X5 and go with that for a good few months.

  9. Advanced Member
    cmp007's Avatar
    Stats
    6'1"  190 lbs.
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Age
    30
    Posts
    564
    Answers
    0
    Rep Power
    427

    Quote Originally Posted by Random181 View Post
    You should not be DC training, this is obvious from your posts, if you are afraid on heavy weight find a easier program, DC is for those advanced enough to work with extremely high intensity and HEAVY HEAVY weight, find a lighter program like 5X5 and go with that for a good few months.
    Well right now my strength is so far down from leaning and doing light weighted supersets the last 2 months the heaviest weight I can do isnt going to be that heavy. I was just thinking about giving it a shot until I almost get to the point of to heavy.

  10. New Member
    GymRat7197's Avatar
    Stats
    5'7"  185 lbs.
    Join Date
    May 2009
    Age
    25
    Posts
    361
    Answers
    0
    Rep Power
    246

    Agreed with above, I looked at the routine and didn't think highly of it anyway, personally.

    Do a yahoo search on Starting Strength, push, pull, legs or Bill Starr 5 x 5.

  11. All Traps - No Tris
    tribaltek's Avatar
    Stats
    5'11"  246.4 lbs.
    Join Date
    Dec 2003
    Posts
    807
    Answers
    0
    Rep Power
    534

    DC is BY FAR the best routine I've ever tried. Mentally, physically... just everything about it "works" for me. No other program has given me the gains in strength and size that DC has. Everyone is different though, so experiment and see what works for you. I do suggest you give DC a try though. Give it a good 3 months and see if you haven't made tons of progress.

  12. Advanced Member
    cmp007's Avatar
    Stats
    6'1"  190 lbs.
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Age
    30
    Posts
    564
    Answers
    0
    Rep Power
    427

    Quote Originally Posted by tribaltek View Post
    DC is BY FAR the best routine I've ever tried. Mentally, physically... just everything about it "works" for me. No other program has given me the gains in strength and size that DC has. Everyone is different though, so experiment and see what works for you. I do suggest you give DC a try though. Give it a good 3 months and see if you haven't made tons of progress.
    Thanks man I will give it a shot starting this week

  13. Board Sponsor
    Distilled Water's Avatar
    Stats
    5'9"  191 lbs.
    Join Date
    Oct 2006
    Posts
    9,656
    Answers
    0
    Rep Power
    2038258

    Search on here there is a massive DC thread
    Serious Nutrition Solutions Representative

  14. Advanced Member
    Random181's Avatar
    Stats
    5'11"  0 lbs.
    Join Date
    Nov 2008
    Posts
    674
    Answers
    0
    Rep Power
    409

    Quote Originally Posted by tribaltek View Post
    DC is BY FAR the best routine I've ever tried. Mentally, physically... just everything about it "works" for me. No other program has given me the gains in strength and size that DC has. Everyone is different though, so experiment and see what works for you. I do suggest you give DC a try though. Give it a good 3 months and see if you haven't made tons of progress.
    Thats great for you, perhaps though if you are going to use dantes program you could have the decency to not recommend it those who are not advanced enough as he has quite clearly stated?

  15. Advanced Member
    cmp007's Avatar
    Stats
    6'1"  190 lbs.
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Age
    30
    Posts
    564
    Answers
    0
    Rep Power
    427

    Quote Originally Posted by Random181 View Post
    Thats great for you, perhaps though if you are going to use dantes program you could have the decency to not recommend it those who are not advanced enough as he has quite clearly stated?
    I dont see why you say im not experienced enough. But whatever buddy

  16. Advanced Member
    Random181's Avatar
    Stats
    5'11"  0 lbs.
    Join Date
    Nov 2008
    Posts
    674
    Answers
    0
    Rep Power
    409

    its just the fact that you state you are afriad of heavy weight bro when the whole metholody of DC is heavy heavy weight and continual progression

  17. Advanced Member
    cmp007's Avatar
    Stats
    6'1"  190 lbs.
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Age
    30
    Posts
    564
    Answers
    0
    Rep Power
    427

    Quote Originally Posted by Random181 View Post
    its just the fact that you state you are afriad of heavy weight bro when the whole metholody of DC is heavy heavy weight and continual progression
    Ok well I didnt say anything about being scared of heavy weights. I stated in a previous thread that I want to take a long break from them because the sets of 275 10 times were making my bone spur in my shoulder act up. And I know what DC training is i've been doing my research. But from the routine ive been on for the last month along with the leaning down I wont be anywhere near that kind of weight and will take me awhile to get back. I just wanted people experiences on this routine. But I guess im not advanced enough to research into it yet.

  18. Senior Member
    h0other's Avatar
    Stats
    5'11"  195 lbs.
    Join Date
    Dec 2007
    Age
    28
    Posts
    1,002
    Answers
    0
    Rep Power
    586

    I enjoyed it and think it's a solid program for packing on strength/size.

  19. Board Supporter
    Frank Reynolds's Avatar
    Stats
    5'8"  210 lbs.
    Join Date
    Apr 2004
    Age
    31
    Posts
    3,667
    Answers
    2
    Rep Power
    136023

    Heavy weight is relative.. If the weight is HEAVY for you, then that is what you need to be using.

    That said, there is ways to manipulate how heavy of weights(for you) you are using, through different rep ranges.

    For instance DB incline bench presses. You could do 90 for 15rp, or possibly 75 for 30rp. You can be progressive on either.

  20. Board Supporter
    Frank Reynolds's Avatar
    Stats
    5'8"  210 lbs.
    Join Date
    Apr 2004
    Age
    31
    Posts
    3,667
    Answers
    2
    Rep Power
    136023

    Quote Originally Posted by GymRat7197 View Post
    Agreed with above, I looked at the routine and didn't think highly of it anyway, personally.
    Werd.. you are the GURU.. Maybe Dante can hire you. You can help him go over DC Training, and fix all its shortcomings, with things that you have used to build 300+ lb bodybuilders over the years, in your vast experience..

  21. Senior Member
    Necroticism's Avatar
    Stats
    5'9"  200 lbs.
    Join Date
    Jul 2007
    Age
    31
    Posts
    1,079
    Answers
    0
    Rep Power
    626

    Quote Originally Posted by imprezivr6 View Post
    Werd.. you are the GURU.. Maybe Dante can hire you. You can help him go over DC Training, and fix all its shortcomings, with things that you have used to build 300+ lb bodybuilders over the years, in your vast experience..
    how many bodybuilders do you know that can bench more then they squat? thats a feat in itself. but in all seriousness, im doing DC right now and it is by far the most effective program for size ive ever done. strength is up on some lifts, but my squat has been falling. probably because im doing it last in my workout now and im only doing back squats once every 2 weeks, opposed to 2-3 times a week like i did in previous programs. despite that though, my legs are larger then they ever have been. very solid program if you can stick to it.

  22. Senior Member
    Silver3CSRT8's Avatar
    Stats
    6'0"  196 lbs.
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Posts
    2,606
    Answers
    0
    Rep Power
    1483

    I am not doing DC training at this time, but I have been researching it as something to move towards in the coming months. I found this site pretty informative:
    http://dc-training.blogspot.com/

  23. Board Supporter
    Frank Reynolds's Avatar
    Stats
    5'8"  210 lbs.
    Join Date
    Apr 2004
    Age
    31
    Posts
    3,667
    Answers
    2
    Rep Power
    136023

    Keep in mind allot of the articles, and other posts on DC are outdated, and has since evolved in some aspects.

    If you want to stay current, just go to intense muscle, and start reading some of the stickies, and some of the "pound puppy" section, as there are tons of sample plans, laid out the RIGHT way.

  24. Board Supporter
    Frank Reynolds's Avatar
    Stats
    5'8"  210 lbs.
    Join Date
    Apr 2004
    Age
    31
    Posts
    3,667
    Answers
    2
    Rep Power
    136023

    Quote Originally Posted by Necroticism View Post
    how many bodybuilders do you know that can bench more then they squat? thats a feat in itself. but in all seriousness, im doing DC right now and it is by far the most effective program for size ive ever done. strength is up on some lifts, but my squat has been falling. probably because im doing it last in my workout now and im only doing back squats once every 2 weeks, opposed to 2-3 times a week like i did in previous programs. despite that though, my legs are larger then they ever have been. very solid program if you can stick to it.
    Ya.. it works.. plain and simple.. If it didn't people would not be doing it, for all these years, and we wouldn't be talking about it right now..lol

    For squats what rep range are you using?

  25. Advanced Member
    cmp007's Avatar
    Stats
    6'1"  190 lbs.
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Age
    30
    Posts
    564
    Answers
    0
    Rep Power
    427

    For the ones that have done t and seen good gains how long has it taken before you actually start to notice gains in size and see results?

  26. Board Sponsor
    Distilled Water's Avatar
    Stats
    5'9"  191 lbs.
    Join Date
    Oct 2006
    Posts
    9,656
    Answers
    0
    Rep Power
    2038258

    I am DC4L!!!!!

    Thats Dogg Crap 4 Life
    Serious Nutrition Solutions Representative

  27. Senior Member
    h0other's Avatar
    Stats
    5'11"  195 lbs.
    Join Date
    Dec 2007
    Age
    28
    Posts
    1,002
    Answers
    0
    Rep Power
    586

    From my brief experience with DC training it is only to be used by people with nails running through there veins. You have to be ANGRY in the gym to make it through this routine, however, if used correctly it can make gains unmatched by other programs. I could definitely see why gymrat wouldn't like the program, he doesn't believe in lifting hard and eating big to bust through plateaus. The thing is, Dante would tell him NOT to do the program anyway as he's not advanced enough in bodybuilding to be able to handle the load. Usually Dante wants you in the 200+ range to even think about doing this because it does put a huge load on your CNS and your body. So in conclusion if you think you're ready for it then try it. See how you feel, see if you can beat the book. Chances are it'll grow on you.

  28. All Traps - No Tris
    tribaltek's Avatar
    Stats
    5'11"  246.4 lbs.
    Join Date
    Dec 2003
    Posts
    807
    Answers
    0
    Rep Power
    534

    Quote Originally Posted by Random181 View Post
    Thats great for you, perhaps though if you are going to use dantes program you could have the decency to not recommend it those who are not advanced enough as he has quite clearly stated?
    Oh good lord. Calm the **** down.

  29. Board Supporter
    Frank Reynolds's Avatar
    Stats
    5'8"  210 lbs.
    Join Date
    Apr 2004
    Age
    31
    Posts
    3,667
    Answers
    2
    Rep Power
    136023

    Quote Originally Posted by cmp007 View Post
    For the ones that have done t and seen good gains how long has it taken before you actually start to notice gains in size and see results?
    This is really individual. From what i have seen on the boards, Some people start it, and get through a blast, post up that they have done this and that, for 6-8 weeks, and people are like "dude you are doing it wrong"

    Some have researched it enough, watched the DVD, and understand it in and out before doing it, and hit the ground running.

    I would say(for me atleast) the first blast was sort of a getting your feet wet, where you make gains, but you are still feeling things out.. After that you should be moving along pretty well.

  30. New Member
    Marsh11's Avatar
    Stats
    5'9"  209 lbs.
    Join Date
    Apr 2005
    Age
    31
    Posts
    260
    Answers
    0
    Rep Power
    245

    I ll tell you one thing I started DC today and when people say its intense that doesnt even do it justice.. I gotta admit I absolutely loved it. There is definitely a feeling it out stage as others have mentioned, I imagine especially in the first few weeks. There were a few exercises today where I shouldve used more weight, but doing it is the only way to find out.

  31. Advanced Member
    cmp007's Avatar
    Stats
    6'1"  190 lbs.
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Age
    30
    Posts
    564
    Answers
    0
    Rep Power
    427

    I hit up the gym tonight and started day 1 and I loved it. Just gonna get through the first week to feel out the weights and make sure I have technique, form, and the whole jist down but gonna bust ass on it to see what kinda gains I can pull off. Thanks for the help from the ones that shared.

  32. New Member
    GymRat7197's Avatar
    Stats
    5'7"  185 lbs.
    Join Date
    May 2009
    Age
    25
    Posts
    361
    Answers
    0
    Rep Power
    246

    Quote Originally Posted by imprezivr6 View Post
    Werd.. you are the GURU.. Maybe Dante can hire you. You can help him go over DC Training, and fix all its shortcomings, with things that you have used to build 300+ lb bodybuilders over the years, in your vast experience..
    Then you can go and tell Mark Rippetoe why a split with unnecessary movements should be chosen over starting strength and all the people who have had significant gains on it.

    You're a very angry person, I'm entitled to my opinion and from the looks of the routine it was terrible. Every muscle group in the body should not be isolated, everyone needs different movements depended upon genetics, frame, lagging parts, how they respond to certain variations, etc.

    Therefore a routine with where the same movements apply to everyone (unless they're a beginner using compound movements) doesn't make sense to me at all.

  33. Senior Member
    Necroticism's Avatar
    Stats
    5'9"  200 lbs.
    Join Date
    Jul 2007
    Age
    31
    Posts
    1,079
    Answers
    0
    Rep Power
    626

    Quote Originally Posted by imprezivr6 View Post
    Ya.. it works.. plain and simple.. If it didn't people would not be doing it, for all these years, and we wouldn't be talking about it right now..lol

    For squats what rep range are you using?
    ive got to rethink my squat a bit. i used to hit 405 for a solid 8-12, but lately ive only been getting 3 at full depth. i think im going to drop it to about 365 for however many i get. the widowmaker has also dropped, i used to do 315-365 for 20, but i havnt been hitting that any more. 275 i get 25-30 though...im pretty perplexed on this.

  34. Senior Member
    Necroticism's Avatar
    Stats
    5'9"  200 lbs.
    Join Date
    Jul 2007
    Age
    31
    Posts
    1,079
    Answers
    0
    Rep Power
    626

    Quote Originally Posted by GymRat7197 View Post
    from the looks of the routine it was terrible. Every muscle group in the body should not be isolated, everyone needs different movements depended upon genetics, frame, lagging parts, how they respond to certain variations, etc.
    i really fail to see where youre getting at with this post. in dc training compound movements are preferred to isolation. or...are you saying you SHOULD neglect certain bodyparts, such as shoulders if your a person with genetically gifted shoulders? when i do my dc program, i am really doing all the same lifts you are doing with your regular program, only the amount of sets i do of them, the frequency in which i do them, and what other body parts are being trained alongside them are different. you're post made very little sense to me.

  35. New Member
    GymRat7197's Avatar
    Stats
    5'7"  185 lbs.
    Join Date
    May 2009
    Age
    25
    Posts
    361
    Answers
    0
    Rep Power
    246

    Quote Originally Posted by Necroticism View Post
    i really fail to see where youre getting at with this post. in dc training compound movements are preferred to isolation. or...are you saying you SHOULD neglect certain bodyparts, such as shoulders if your a person with genetically gifted shoulders? when i do my dc program, i am really doing all the same lifts you are doing with your regular program, only the amount of sets i do of them, the frequency in which i do them, and what other body parts are being trained alongside them are different. you're post made very little sense to me.
    I just disagree with biceps getting various direct movements. Rowing and pullups stimulate the biceps and 1 more bicep movement after that is plenty of work for that small muscle group. Incline bench presses coming before regular bench presses doesn't make sense to me either. Incline presses are a movement compromising the overhead press and the bench press. What you're trying to portray by connecting these two movements is like trying to piss in a can during a wind storm. Flat benches contract more of the overall chest than incline presses.

  36. Senior Member
    h0other's Avatar
    Stats
    5'11"  195 lbs.
    Join Date
    Dec 2007
    Age
    28
    Posts
    1,002
    Answers
    0
    Rep Power
    586

    GymRat.. I honestly don't see you winning a argument with this. When you are not even CAPABLE of doing a workout program, it is not your area to diss it. Go over to the DC forum and tell them you deadlift 300 and that you are wanting to start up and they will all take turns laughing. If you want to think 5x5 is the king then so be it, it's obviously working wonders on you. But dont come to a DC thread and say it's not up to par.

  37. New Member
    GymRat7197's Avatar
    Stats
    5'7"  185 lbs.
    Join Date
    May 2009
    Age
    25
    Posts
    361
    Answers
    0
    Rep Power
    246

    Quote Originally Posted by h0other View Post
    GymRat.. I honestly don't see you winning a argument with this. When you are not even CAPABLE of doing a workout program, it is not your area to diss it. Go over to the DC forum and tell them you deadlift 300 and that you are wanting to start up and they will all take turns laughing. If you want to think 5x5 is the king then so be it, it's obviously working wonders on you. But dont come to a DC thread and say it's not up to par.
    After your ignorant comments with the previous thread I honestly don't see who you are to point a finger. A big deadlift makes you smart at workout routines? Wow, I learned something new today. We're yet to see videos of your highly impressive lifts by the way. I don't use deadlifts a lot, hence my disability in that particular movement.

    I don't try bench pressing 5 times per week but I know it's not suitable, when I see a routine that I don't like I elaborate my suggestions and it's not breaking any rules. I don't personally attack people, I said that I didn't condone the routine and it offended a third party. I think Starting Strength is a more appropriate suggestion, go over to crossfit and tell Mark Rippetoe dogcrap training is more appropriate than his routines.

    That routine wouldn't seem bad for a bodybuilder, somehow on a high level of training with phenomenal strength, but to find a beginner and throw that routine at him I would definitely disagree. Elaborate on how I'm wrong if you'd like. I don't mind debating my theories.

  38. Banned
    Sk8erboy's Avatar
    Stats
    6'1"  230 lbs.
    Join Date
    May 2009
    Posts
    17
    Answers
    0
    Rep Power
    0

    First off all before you get pissed off Ho0ther I have fully read the link to the routine.


    I think the name fits it well it is dogcrapp this is coming from my standpoint. I would never advise a newcomer to lifting to do 3-4 exercises per body part 15-20 something ****in reps a exercises now if you are some dude jacked up on roids and enjoy doing **** like this then go for it then again this is ANABOLICminds I am not gonna get into the whole debate as to why less is more and why compound movements are far more effective than isolations and 3-4 exercises per body part that debate has been seen many times.

    Now lets me address the problems

    Chest You have incline and decline why? Why not just use one or another lets keep in mind just because you change the angle of the bench you are not working a different area of the bench you area just changing the area from which force is pressed down on to you and where you push it because the chest muscle is one WHOLE muscle it acts like rubberband like SOME noobs think they lets do decline because it builds our lower pecs then incline for upper **** that the chest is one whole mother****in muscle

    Secondly why deem exercises as back thickness and width exercises when grow in width and thickness is dictated by hypertrophy is an effect of a calorie sufficient diet to reap benefits of weightlifting

    Quads I seen no problem doing a heavy set of squats and then doing a speed set afterwards I am a powerlifter and its what I currently do on my very basic yet effective 5/3/1 routine but doing a ****ing widowmaker after each quad exercise is ****in retard is this workout meant to be done once a week? It should be yeah you wanna lift ****in hard and balls to the wall but you want to leave the window for recovery optimal

    Hamstrings need I get into a debate how squats when properly performed in my eye below parallel add good stimulation to hamstrings and then if you feel like hammys are lacking do leg curls or lunges but doing seated leg curls, regular leg curls then stiff leg deadlifts this remind of when I walked around all day in speed training shoes (shoes with the raised toe) STUPID

    Biceps second I have no problem with doing bicep curls I like to throw in the odd bicep curls here and there however I feel a single bicep exercises does ME just but this is just PERSONAL opinion

    I really dont need to explain the rest you get my point that is routine is doggcrapp

  39. New Member
    GymRat7197's Avatar
    Stats
    5'7"  185 lbs.
    Join Date
    May 2009
    Age
    25
    Posts
    361
    Answers
    0
    Rep Power
    246

    Sk8erboy your signature has 450 lb deadlift and a 435 lb squat, you addressed that you were a powerlifter so I'm assuming the form was legit. I guess you're strong enough to critique this program, I'm not obviously my deadlift isn't good enough for me to critique someone's training although I've gained nearly 300 reputation points for the valid points and civilized approach I take to these debates.

  40. Senior Member
    Necroticism's Avatar
    Stats
    5'9"  200 lbs.
    Join Date
    Jul 2007
    Age
    31
    Posts
    1,079
    Answers
    0
    Rep Power
    626

    Quote Originally Posted by GymRat7197 View Post
    I just disagree with biceps getting various direct movements. Rowing and pullups stimulate the biceps and 1 more bicep movement after that is plenty of work for that small muscle group. Incline bench presses coming before regular bench presses doesn't make sense to me either. Incline presses are a movement compromising the overhead press and the bench press. What you're trying to portray by connecting these two movements is like trying to piss in a can during a wind storm. Flat benches contract more of the overall chest than incline presses.
    i really think based on this post you are misunderstanding DC training. you dont do incline press and regular press in the same workout. also, in DC training there is no set lift choices. you can choose whatever lift for whatever bodypart you want. again the only part of you're argument one can consider valid is that you are against direct bicep training, which is something that is done with practically every workout program, and singling dc out for this is hardly fair.

  •   

      
     

Similar Forum Threads

  1. Wanting to try HVT training muscles more than once a week training
    By East1600Plus in forum Exercise Science
    Replies: 23
    Last Post: 01-21-2007, 11:44 AM
  2. Supplement schedule of training vs no training days
    By parttimer in forum Supplements
    Replies: 7
    Last Post: 07-06-2006, 01:43 PM
  3. Training Volume vs Training Frequency!! Read and think!
    By Landmonster in forum Exercise Science
    Replies: 7
    Last Post: 06-01-2006, 07:12 PM
  4. Replies: 9
    Last Post: 04-26-2006, 10:00 PM
  5. Replies: 98
    Last Post: 06-23-2005, 12:27 AM

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  
Log in
Log in