Running early in morning...

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    Running early in morning...


    Ok well over the summer i will be cutting and getting in good shape but problem is i have work 7:30 to 3:30 and basball evening so im forced to run in morning. If i wake at 5:00 am should i do fasted cardio which consists of 1 mile jog/run to stairs which i run the walk/jog back or should i eat a nice breakfast wait 45 min then go? Im just looking for whats best to cut fat but thats still healthy.

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    Take BCAAs pre-run, preferably even 1 scoop of whey first.

    Glycogen levels are at the lowest in the morning, so it's essentially the best time to run. So there's nothing wrong with it.

    Cutting fat is ALL in the calorie deficient. Keep the protein intake up and continue to lift heavy to maintain your current muscle.
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    Quote Originally Posted by jumpshot903 View Post
    Ok well over the summer i will be cutting and getting in good shape but problem is i have work 7:30 to 3:30 and basball evening so im forced to run in morning. If i wake at 5:00 am should i do fasted cardio which consists of 1 mile jog/run to stairs which i run the walk/jog back or should i eat a nice breakfast wait 45 min then go? Im just looking for whats best to cut fat but thats still healthy.
    Doesn't matter whether you do your cardio fasted or not, since the type of substrate used for energy during cardio makes no impact on fat loss (if you burn glycogen during your run, then you will burn fat the rest of the day and vice versa). You could do it either fasted, or have a protein shake 45 min pre-run; I wouldn't recommend something heavy like a full breakfast, since your body will still be processing it (it takes ~2-3 hours to digest food properly, depending on which substrate it is). Have your breakfast when you get back from your run.
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    aerobic means in the presence of oxygen. when doing cardio exercises you do not use ATP/CP (remember ATP is gone from the body very quickly) or glycogen for energy (glycogen is used to make more ATP), it uses the oxidative pathway. it breaks down fat for energy when done at low intesity (this process is called beta-oxidation), if you perform high intensity for long periods of time your body will use more carbs to keep up with the demand of energy since the beta-oxidation process takes a while to complete. look at a treadmill or any other piece of aerobic equiptment, ever wonder why the "fat burning" portion of it resides in the low intensity level?
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    Quote Originally Posted by lennoxchi View Post
    aerobic means in the presence of oxygen. when doing cardio exercises you do not use ATP/CP (remember ATP is gone from the body very quickly) or glycogen for energy (glycogen is used to make more ATP), it uses the oxidative pathway. it breaks down fat for energy when done at low intesity (this process is called beta-oxidation), if you perform high intensity for long periods of time your body will use more carbs to keep up with the demand of energy since the beta-oxidation process takes a while to complete. look at a treadmill or any other piece of aerobic equiptment, ever wonder why the "fat burning" portion of it resides in the low intensity level?
    Actually, if doing high intensity or interval training cardio, then yeah, you DO use the short-term and immediate energy systems.

    If you do LOW intensity cardio, then you still use ATP and glycogen for a few minutes before switching to the long-term energy system. Besides, whilst one may burn FAT during low intensity cardio, what they burn during that session is pretty much ALL they burn; if they do high intensity or intervals, then they continue burning calories long after the session has ended.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Guejsn View Post
    Doesn't matter whether you do your cardio fasted or not, since the type of substrate used for energy during cardio makes no impact on fat loss (if you burn glycogen during your run, then you will burn fat the rest of the day and vice versa). You could do it either fasted, or have a protein shake 45 min pre-run; I wouldn't recommend something heavy like a full breakfast, since your body will still be processing it (it takes ~2-3 hours to digest food properly, depending on which substrate it is). Have your breakfast when you get back from your run.
    Going to have to disagree here. The substrate used has a huge impact on fat loss. The higher the intensity/EPOC, the greater the percent of your fuel is coming from glucose/glycogen.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Guejsn View Post
    Actually, if doing high intensity or interval training cardio, then yeah, you DO use the short-term and immediate energy systems.

    If you do LOW intensity cardio, then you still use ATP and glycogen for a few minutes before switching to the long-term energy system. Besides, whilst one may burn FAT during low intensity cardio, what they burn during that session is pretty much ALL they burn; if they do high intensity or intervals, then they continue burning calories long after the session has ended.
    sorry didn't see that you made mention of that in your original post
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rodja View Post
    Going to have to disagree here. The substrate used has a huge impact on fat loss. The higher the intensity/EPOC, the greater the percent of your fuel is coming from glucose/glycogen.
    As with everything re training results depend on the individual. Personally, the higher intensity my cardio is, the better my fat loss. Aside from when my body "forces" a "recovery" session I try and keep my cardio intensity high, and when I run (and yes, I run very inefficiently) my HR is always >85-90% HRmax.


    Quote Originally Posted by lennoxchi View Post
    sorry didn't see that you made mention of that in your original post
    All good.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Guejsn View Post
    As with everything re training results depend on the individual. Personally, the higher intensity my cardio is, the better my fat loss. Aside from when my body "forces" a "recovery" session I try and keep my cardio intensity high, and when I run (and yes, I run very inefficiently) my HR is always >85-90% HRmax.




    All good.
    That's because you're forcing your RER to a very high level, which forces the body into an anaerobic dominate state. The longer you're in this state, the more you burn off your glycogen stores. In doing so, you increase your EPOC and nutrient repartitioning for several hours.

    Also, remember that age-predicted HRmax is horribly inaccurate ( (220-age) +- 10 BPM).
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rodja View Post
    That's because you're forcing your RER to a very high level, which forces the body into an anaerobic dominate state. The longer you're in this state, the more you burn off your glycogen stores. In doing so, you increase your EPOC and nutrient repartitioning for several hours.
    yea that's what i've heard a lot as well.
    I haven't seen any journals on it though.
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    Some useful info:

    tmuscle.com/free_online_article/sports_body_training_performan ce_repair/more_lower_back_savers

    Point 12.
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    Some useful info:

    tmuscle.com/free_online_article/sports_body_training_performan ce_repair/more_lower_back_savers

    Point 12.
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    Quote Originally Posted by BoyFromAus View Post
    yea that's what i've heard a lot as well.
    I haven't seen any journals on it though.
    It's basic Ex Phys.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Guejsn View Post
    Actually, if doing high intensity or interval training cardio, then yeah, you DO use the short-term and immediate energy systems.

    If you do LOW intensity cardio, then you still use ATP and glycogen for a few minutes before switching to the long-term energy system. Besides, whilst one may burn FAT during low intensity cardio, what they burn during that session is pretty much ALL they burn; if they do high intensity or intervals, then they continue burning calories long after the session has ended.
    What kind of high intensity/low interval workouts would you recommend that would aid in this process?
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    Is it smart to carry a water bottle sip on some before during and after running?
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    Quote Originally Posted by ptazz12 View Post
    What kind of high intensity/low interval workouts would you recommend that would aid in this process?
    For my HIIT (and I only do it 3 times a week, a day between) I utilize a form of Guerilla Cardio:

    a. 4 min easy
    b. 8 x 20 sec effort (as hard as you can go)/10 sec easy (NOT stopping)
    c. 4 min easy

    Can be done either running or cycling (known as 'Tabata Intervals' if done on a bike).

    Although not a long time (and a long session you don't need), if you're not used to it, it shatters you. after ~8-12 weeks you can increase how many efforts you do (or make your own variations on effort/recovery ratios).


    Quote Originally Posted by jumpshot903 View Post
    Is it smart to carry a water bottle sip on some before during and after running?
    You can, but not necessary, especially if you're not running very far or for very long.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Guejsn View Post
    For my HIIT (and I only do it 3 times a week, a day between) I utilize a form of Guerilla Cardio:

    a. 4 min easy
    b. 8 x 20 sec effort (as hard as you can go)/10 sec easy (NOT stopping)
    c. 4 min easy

    Can be done either running or cycling (known as 'Tabata Intervals' if done on a bike).

    Although not a long time (and a long session you don't need), if you're not used to it, it shatters you. after ~8-12 weeks you can increase how many efforts you do (or make your own variations on effort/recovery ratios).

    Thanks for the advice Guejsn, I will try that in two days!

    What do you think about throwing down a protein shake before the run and drinking 1/2 gatorade (other half water) mixed with 5g of glutamine, throughout the workout?
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    Quote Originally Posted by ptazz12 View Post
    Thanks for the advice Guejsn, I will try that in two days!

    What do you think about throwing down a protein shake before the run and drinking 1/2 gatorade (other half water) mixed with 5g of glutamine, throughout the workout?
    No worries.

    You can do a protein shake before your run; make it ~15-20 minutes before though, and not just right before you go.

    For such a short session (and seriously, 12 minutes is ALL you need for at least 8 weeks if you're just starting out) you shouldn't need to be having any gatorade/glutamine. Even on a longer HIIT run (i.e. 20-30 mins) you don't need that. Just make sure that you have a protein shake when you get back and/or eat within 30 minutes of finishing your session.
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    Guejsn If i wake at say 5:30 and anything i should eat beforehand you said protein shake but could i just sip on some xtend during its going to consist of a 1 mile jog to stairs to 1mile jog back the stairs i will run probally 5 times each time slowly progressing up to more and more as i get in better shape. Question is id like to do fasted cardio but is sipping on xtend fine then have my normal breakfast about 15-30 min after i get back from run?
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    Quote Originally Posted by jumpshot903 View Post
    Guejsn If i wake at say 5:30 and anything i should eat beforehand you said protein shake but could i just sip on some xtend during its going to consist of a 1 mile jog to stairs to 1mile jog back the stairs i will run probally 5 times each time slowly progressing up to more and more as i get in better shape. Question is id like to do fasted cardio but is sipping on xtend fine then have my normal breakfast about 15-30 min after i get back from run?
    Whether or not you eat beforehand is entirely up to you (however, bear in mind that if you have a meal it will take up to 2-3 hours to digest, depending on the contents and amount fo the meal; and exercise slows down digestion). If you're going to get into your run pretty soon after waking, then yeah, you could just have your Xtend and then go for the run.

    So, you're doing 3.2km (i.e. once to stairs and back) or 16km (i.e. 5 x to stairs and back) every session? If you're going to do only 3.2km you don't really need anything before, but Xtend is fine. If you're gong to do 16km, then that's a long time running (and I personally wouldn't recommend running for more than 30-40 minutes at once (and a 16km run is going to be 64-80 minutes, if the pace is between 4-5 min/km), since running is so catabolic), and you'd definintely want to have xtend beforehand.

    Yes, have your breakfast within that first 30 minutes of returning from your run.
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    I had a style I liked on cycle last year of doing 2 minutes with the bike almost maxed out peddling my heart out and 1 minute with the difficulty at about 6 (out of 20). For 20 minutes....Ugh, people wondered why nothing ever wore me down....heheh. You play like you train, so train hard if you plan to play hard.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zero V View Post
    ...You play like you train, so train hard if you plan to play hard.
    Yes (if you're involved competitively in a sport). And also yes regardless
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    no to stairs is 1mile run the stairs 5 times then 1 mile back.

    So like this

    1mile-5 sets of stairs (long stairs) 1mile back.
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    Quote Originally Posted by jumpshot903 View Post
    no to stairs is 1mile run the stairs 5 times then 1 mile back.

    So like this

    1mile-5 sets of stairs (long stairs) 1mile back.
    In that case, the Xtend before is fine (although you don't really need it), and no breakfast/food before.
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    Will performing HIIT in the morning be the best for obtaining RECOMP?>
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    Quote Originally Posted by ptazz12 View Post
    Will performing HIIT in the morning be the best for obtaining RECOMP?>
    You can do HIIT any time of the day.

    As for recomping, how successfully you achieve this is based predominantly on your DIET (NOT your training, although training has a role, since you need to be doing the right KIND of training).
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    Quote Originally Posted by Guejsn View Post
    You can do HIIT any time of the day.

    As for recomping, how successfully you achieve this is based predominantly on your DIET (NOT your training, although training has a role, since you need to be doing the right KIND of training).
    Good to know! Right now I'm doing the Max-OT workout, and I will attempt to perform HIIT workout in the mornings Mon, Weds, and Fri.

    I agree with you on the diet, and it's really clean... I'm lucky though, I have my meals cooked for me on a regular basis

    Seriously, I want that washboard stomach, with the V-backline... I also want some large traps so the ladies have something to grab on to. LOL
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    Quote Originally Posted by ptazz12 View Post
    Good to know! Right now I'm doing the Max-OT workout, and I will attempt to perform HIIT workout in the mornings Mon, Weds, and Fri.

    I agree with you on the diet, and it's really clean... I'm lucky though, I have my meals cooked for me on a regular basis

    Seriously, I want that washboard stomach, with the V-backline... I also want some large traps so the ladies have something to grab on to. LOL
    HIIT days look fine.

    You want the "washboard stomach" you need to watch the diet (so clean is goo), but also make sure that you're not being silly but having really low calories or cutting out carbohydrates, etc. If you want the "V-backline" with "large traps" you need to build your back (especially upper and traps) up (and this IS in your training).
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    Quote Originally Posted by ptazz12 View Post
    Good to know! Right now I'm doing the Max-OT workout, and I will attempt to perform HIIT workout in the mornings Mon, Weds, and Fri.

    I agree with you on the diet, and it's really clean... I'm lucky though, I have my meals cooked for me on a regular basis

    Seriously, I want that washboard stomach, with the V-backline... I also want some large traps so the ladies have something to grab on to. LOL
    Beware of undereating. HIIT and Max-OT can be very taxing on both the CNS and the muscles/joints.

    Also, I real oppose doing HIIT on an empty stomach.
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    consider taking an NO product before your run then do 2-3 200meter runs, next 3-4 100meter sprints, 1 400meter sprint, and finish off with a 1mile sprint as fast as you can.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Matt6969 View Post
    consider taking an NO product before your run then do 2-3 200meter runs, next 3-4 100meter sprints, 1 400meter sprint, and finish off with a 1mile sprint as fast as you can.
    Why an NO product prior to cardio?
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