Shock Muscles with German Volume Training?
- 05-11-2009, 12:58 AM
Shock Muscles with German Volume Training?
Anyone have any experience with or thoughts about German Volume Training? I've been doing different 4 and 5 day splits for quite some time now, and I'm thinking about moving into a simple 3 day German Volume Training routine.
Here's What I got:
Chest (flat bench press) & Back (lat pull downs)
- one exercise for each and do 10 sets of 10 reps
Legs (Squats), calfs , and abs
- 10 sets of 10 reps for legs
- 3 sets of 15+ reps for calfs and abs
Shoulders (behind neck barbell), biceps (seated DB curl), and triceps (close grip bench)
- 10 sets of 10 reps for shoulders
- 3 sets of 10+ reps for biceps and triceps
Also Resting only 60-90 seconds between sets. When I can complete all 10 sets of 10 reps with good form increase the weight by 5%.
So what do you guys think? It's gonna be really hard for me to just perform one workout per muscle group it goes against almost everything I've heard and seen so far, but hey dudes swear to it and its not like there is any clear evidence against it.I'm back from a longggg nap!
- 05-15-2009, 01:51 AM
05-16-2009, 01:36 AM
05-16-2009, 03:22 AM
05-16-2009, 05:09 AM
05-16-2009, 05:14 AM
Couldn't move my arm for 2 days, even then it was shaky. Decent growth, but strength and endurance increased a lot. That was noticeable.
05-16-2009, 06:18 AM
I'd like to see how this works out for you. What are you looking for? Seems like this could be for a cut or recomp and not a bulk but I could be wrong.
05-16-2009, 08:44 AM
I use GVT 'principals' as a staple in my training routine. My normal routine is a combination of optimised volume training (OVT), with a few GVT exercises (squats, deadlifts, incline bench press and DB curls).
I think GVT is an excellent change from the run of the mill split, it's very taxing on the body so if you have poor recovery from high volume routines then definitely ease into it.
Some people also find that their maximum strength on certain exericises (e.g. squat and deadlift) diminishes on this routine, so I cycle between periods of 10 x 10 on squats, deads and bench, to a 5 x 5 routine or use OVT principles (5 x 5 supersetted).
Give it shot, see what you think.
05-22-2009, 04:19 AM
I use a modified version of GVT. I love 10x10s since the pump is amazing.
I train heavy first and do 2 sets of max triples and then go into a 10x10 (30 sec rest) on the same exercise. So for bench I'll go up a do two sets @ 335 and then drop down and do a 10x10 @ 155. Its a slaughter.
I start the program on a 5 day split. Every two days I length it a little. So by the end I'm doing 5 workouts over 2 weeks instead of 1. the extra recovery seems to help gain mass and my strength still takes off nicely.
05-22-2009, 02:02 PM
German volume training is definitely a shock. 100 reps of an exercise during a workout is no laughing matter. I'd suggest doing a relatively low intensity, i.e. around 60% of your max, or else you'll have trouble completing all 10 sets...and you'll probably have trouble doing this style of training for weeks at a time unless you carefully control the intensity.
I have never really done this with squats, but I have done it with bench...10X10 with 135. Definitely brought blood into the area unlike normal training methods would. Some people, instead of stopping lifting, deload by doing something like this. They use low weights <50% for very high reps on compound movements. It becomes a total shock to the muscles because they are completely unprepared for that kind of work, but the work is such low intensity it's hard to "overtrain" or burnout the CNS unless hundreds of reps are done.
Definitely worth a try, I'd like to hear how it goes for you.
05-22-2009, 02:06 PM
I think people will see intitial strength losses from this sort of routine IF they do something like 10X10 at ~70%. For such volume, that sort of intensity can be extremely taxing on the CNS and muscles themselves.
When done with lower intensity, i.e. ~50%, it can be amazing as a recuperative workout, conditioner, and GPP.
05-22-2009, 06:51 PM
Do you actually make all 100 reps when you do it? I shoot for mid 80s for total failure. When I get to mid 90s then I'll up the weight.
05-25-2009, 07:17 PM
Did this with the leg press after my boss advised me of it.
I used the hammerstrenght leg press (safety) instead of squats. Dear god the pain. Go for it tho
05-26-2009, 11:18 AM
05-26-2009, 09:21 PM
So 2 weeks into gvt with 'the one' is going well. Talk about a rough days at the gym though lol. Weight is up 8 pounds since 5/17 and i've been doing GVT since 5/11 and 'the one' since 5/17...I'm gonna try to throw the numbers up this week for 5/11 and compared to this week then again at the end of 'the one' and one last time after pct.
I'm back from a longggg nap!
05-27-2009, 07:52 PM
GVT will pack on the mass as long as you have enough recovery. That seems to be the typical reason people fail - overtraining and burnout.
06-02-2009, 05:36 PM
The most recent muscle and fitness magazine had an article on 100's. It mentions a pretty good workout set for this. It talked about doing 100 straight reps or doing the 10x10 method with a little heavier weight. I added in one set of 100 to each of my work outs, it's pretty brutal.
It also recommended that if you can't do the full 100 set that you pause for however many seconds you have reps left, do 80 reps rest for 20 seconds then finish the set of 100.
Good stuff hurts like hell the next day.
06-02-2009, 06:12 PM
this sounds quite interesting and im just wondering if you are supposed to use the same weight for the entirety of the 10x10 or do drop sets?
and how can one be sure not to overtrain when doing this?
06-02-2009, 06:17 PM
You use the same weight the entire time. For the 10x10 you take a 60 to 90 second break between the sets. When targetting smaller muscle you should do less reps. Although I've done the 100s with curls. You will feel it for a few days
06-02-2009, 09:02 PM
06-02-2009, 09:48 PM
I think the basic plan was only doing 4 exercises a day 3 days a week with a day off between each.
Monday - Chest/Back
-Incline dumbbell press
-Lat pull downs
Tue - Off
Wed - Legs/abs
-Hanging leg lifts
Thurs - off
Friday arms/shoulders (smaller muscles do only 5 sets of 10)
If this is all you're doing then you probably won't over train.
06-03-2009, 02:17 AM
I did gvt about 6 months ago. for the love of god it destroyed me....in a good way though. strength up and bulked up with a slightly +calorie +protien diet. I am not one to measure myself but the feedback from friends was all positive....couple of guys that I didnt see at the gym for 5 weeks were very suprised with the size gain. And the mirror doesnt lie. Neither do the clothes.
As the other guys said recovery is the key. and breaking through that 7th set.
Lighter weights but dont get sucked in, set 6 to 10 are killers.
I will be cycling it through every year for 8-10 weeks.
mon: Chest/back 10 by 10 (flat bench one week incline the next)(rows and lat pulldown alternate weeks)
wed: Legs/abs 10by10 squat/dead lift/leg press (be afraid of legs, very afraid); 3 by 15 calf raises; and abs (whatever u can do)
fri: Biceps/triceps shoulder
dumbell press 10/10
bicep barbell curl or seated alternate curl 10 by 10
Tricep skull crushers or cable extensions 10 by 10
This worked for me and cant wait to start it again
06-03-2009, 06:57 PM
Don't forget to use proper tempo. 4-0-2 for your primary exercises and 3-0-2 for the second and third exercises. This is what really makes it work so well, not just the actual volume.
06-04-2009, 04:44 AM
Again its all about intensity and believe me its intense without the massive weight. Good luck.
06-04-2009, 04:49 PM
can you explain the tempo? 4-0-2 is that 4 seconds of getting the bar up then no pause and dropping it back down in 2 seconds?
06-04-2009, 05:26 PM
For most exercises you'll be using 55-65 % of your 1RM. If you can bench 225 for a max then you'll be doing GVT with about 135-145lbs. Once you can do all 10 sets for 10 reps, then bump up the weight by 2-5%. The hardest part is to keep the tempo right when you're in sets 7-10, that's when you really have to focus b/c it becomes pretty difficult.
** get ready for some pretty instense DOMS for the first week or two. Its' going to shock your system.
07-06-2009, 01:24 AM
can you get good chest growth hitting it only one time per week... in other words is this basic split under training?and also would like to know if you ever did a more advanced split?if so could you give an example...im only asking cuz my chest and biceps are lagging but i just came across gvt and im trying to find a proper split for myself but im willing to incorperate the basic... anyone else has any other split ideas for gvt please postem... also how many weeks would one recomend doing this routine before needing to drop the intensity or change programs all together-im very interested in fine tuning this.
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