Smith Macine Rules!

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  1. Mars1107
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    Smith Macine Rules!


    I just tryed it out, even though ive been working out for a long time.

    Sad i know.

    Well usually i do bench.

    But my chest feels totally wreck, and not my triceps or shoulders.

    It really helped with my form.

    and i was able to put more weight.

    I did 245-6,235-8,235-10,185-8 135-16(not in a specific order)
    empty bar to warm up

    What else you guys do on smith machines?

    deads, squats.ect...?

    post up your routines.


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    Please avoid smith machines as much as possible.

    They cancel utilization of stabilizer muscles and do not allow the body to work in the normal three-dimensional plane.

    Quote Originally Posted by Daniel Evans
    The squat rack is a free standing frame which allows a person to load and unload a barbell from an elevated position.

    The power cage provides the same but being composes of 4 posts it seat catcher pins which allow the trainee to lift safely alone. The catching pins are set a few inches below the bottom position of the lift. In the event of a fail the bar is bailed and dropped onto the catchers.

    Some squat racks feature catchers also but are uncommon.

    The Smith Machine looks similar to the Power Rack but features a bar fixed to vertical rails. It is of utmost importance to recognise the difference between the Smith Machine and a power rack since each dictates a very different training style.

    The power rack provides:

    - A method of Loading
    - A method of unloading
    - A failsafe.

    A Smith machine provides the same but dictates movement pattern and it is this which renders the piece of equipment useless to anyone who wishes to train effectively. Since the bar on the Smith Machine is guided by vertical rails it does not allow for natural three dimensional movement. This is more of a problem that people might assume.

    As a trainee moves a bar through the range of motion using free weights their body requires freedom of movement to make micro adjustments which include the ways in which joints move and the ways in which muscles contract. This is inclusive of small stabilizer muscles which require freedom to develop to do the job they are intended to do; stabilizing the body with or without an external load. This is regarded as functional training since it has potential carryover into the real world.

    Restricting the body to work within a two dimensional plane can create stress upon the joints and programs incorrect motor pattern. "Motor pattern" is a learning process which the body initiates to perform a movement more efficiently. As limbs move signals are passed through the peripheral nervous system to the central nervous system (through the spine) to the brain. The brain then signals to the limbs through the same path how to change their accordingly through muscle contraction. It's an unconscious process but it's an essential factor when learning how to perform lifts correctly.

    A trainee who places faith in a Smith Machine pushing an external load on vertical rails will respond to become more efficient at moving in this manner regardless if it has potential detrimental effects to other parts of the organism. An example might be the knees which can suffer due to restrictions in movement and limited load handled by muscle tissue.

    Lifting in the Smith Machine teaches how to lift in the Smith Machine - nothing more. It has very little carryover to the free weight alternative and needless to say is unsuited to any trainee - particularly beginners.


    These principles also apply to most pieces of equipment that dictate a fixed plane of motion. An external load lifted in a real life circumstance will rarely be attached to rails.

    Leave the lifting with rails to forklift trucks!
    Source:- http://ezinearticles.com/?Squat-Rack...ine&id=1807173

    If you're going to use machines, please make sure it's AFTER you use the free weights unless you're recovering from some sort of injury.
  3. Mars1107
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    good points, but it always good to switch up your routine.

    But exactly, if i dont have a spotter to do real bench.

    then smith.

    then you'd say dumbells, good too, but its also good to have some to help you get up the weight and push, if your trying to put maximul weight, which is necessary sometimes, in order to progress

    on the smith i was able to work by my self with maximum

    i hear what your saying, but im not going to avoid smith

    its the first time i tryed it, and i really like it.

    thanks though, i knew the cons of smith
    probally thats why i avoided it,perhaps
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  4. Mars1107
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    ive read that some pros even just use machines for everything

    not saying its not good.

    But machines definitely have their use.
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    i do squats on my smith machine, because i had a rough knee injury a couple of years back, so it helps me do more weight without being scared of hurting my knee. It also makes me have good form and after each leg day i definetely feel it everywhere so it works for me.
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    Smith machine has its place. However, free weight movements are far superior imo, especially on compound movements.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mars1107 View Post
    I just tryed it out, even though ive been working out for a long time.

    Sad i know.

    Well usually i do bench.

    But my chest feels totally wreck, and not my triceps or shoulders.

    It really helped with my form.

    and i was able to put more weight.

    I did 245-6,235-8,235-10,185-8 135-16(not in a specific order)
    empty bar to warm up

    What else you guys do on smith machines?

    deads, squats.ect...?

    post up your routines.

    I can do just about everything on a smith..

    Squat, rows. shrugs, bench, deads, shoulders..
    Some days, I'm such a smith whore
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    Quote Originally Posted by cedrone50 View Post
    i do squats on my smith machine, because i had a rough knee injury a couple of years back, so it helps me do more weight without being scared of hurting my knee. It also makes me have good form and after each leg day i definetely feel it everywhere so it works for me.
    I do mine on the smith too..

    I can go further in my lifts becasue I'm not having to worry about collapsing
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    A properly performed squat would involve hip drive which doesn't place unnecessary tension on the hips, you use hip drive to avoid putting that tension on the knees. During a squat, you're not suppose to push up using your feet like a leg press, then that IS hard on your knees. You're suppose to drive the weight up from your hips utilizing more of the posterior chain and less of the knees.

    The choice is yours, but a power rack provides the same safety. Just realize that your stabilizers aren't getting worked and therefore you won't be getting the same workout, not nearly as effective.
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    deadlift on smith machine how would u do that the smith machine if u put the bar all the way down is like a 1/2 deadlift and those pull things help u mvoe the weight up alot..

    smith machine deads are retarded lol
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    Quote Originally Posted by brownstown89 View Post
    deadlift on smith machine how would u do that the smith machine if u put the bar all the way down is like a 1/2 deadlift and those pull things help u mvoe the weight up alot..

    smith machine deads are retarded lol
    I'm against them all together. They provide nothing more than what a conventional power rack won't provide. All they do is cancel your stabilizers and give you a fixed range of motion, barbell free weights are superior.

    On a smith machine I can bench press 225 for about 10 reps, on free weights my personal best was 6 reps, now I can get about 4.
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    smith machine ruins ur rep rythm too the only thing i use them for is reverse grip tricep bench which makes u push em in a direct line using nothing but tri's
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    Quote Originally Posted by brownstown89 View Post
    smith machine ruins ur rep rythm too the only thing i use them for is reverse grip tricep bench which makes u push em in a direct line using nothing but tri's
    Reverse grip bench press? I've been hearing a lot about that but never got around to trying it.

    I prefer triceps extensions and weighted dips personally. :-)

    Smith machines I always recommend to avoid, you're only cheating yourself really, machines can have their place but barbell / free weight work is always going to be more superior and therefore should be done first if you insist on machines.
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    This is why I use dumbells mostly...
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    Quote Originally Posted by GymRat7197 View Post
    Reverse grip bench press? I've been hearing a lot about that but never got around to trying it.

    I prefer triceps extensions and weighted dips personally. :-)

    Smith machines I always recommend to avoid, you're only cheating yourself really, machines can have their place but barbell / free weight work is always going to be more superior and therefore should be done first if you insist on machines.
    its really stressfull on ur shoulders and tri's i can honestly say the only thing my smith machine is only used for is RGBP.

    id say maybe add them into ur workout 3-4 weeks b4 maxing and u will deffinetly max more on bench
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    I think we agree free weights are superior. However people saying the smith machine is useless are ludacris.


    You can do explosive and speed rep training on them. Plus you can hit the muscles in new different ways.

    Smith machine is an excellent addition to just about any trainig program.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pleonastic View Post
    I think we agree free weights are superior. However people saying the smith machine is useless are ludacris.
    Regardless, when we train for superior results we should use the superior methods, using a certain machine because the free weight approach is harder is the lazy way to not achieving your goals.

    If you have access to free weights, they should come first, then do your machine work if you feel it's necessary.
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    Smith machine is my number one choice for drop sets (no rest, dropping 10 pounds each set, for 4-5 sets, working to failure each set).
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    Smith machine takes makes doing a heavy squat with no spotter possible...Sometimes an empty gym is no good...
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    I am with Gymrat, avoid the smith machines at all costs.

    If you don't have a spotter try pin presses for Squat and Bench.
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    There's always a power rack if you don't have a spotter, I recommend a power rack any day. If your gym has a smith machine, the biggest chance is that it has a power rack or at least a squat rack, as well.
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    i used smith machine for bench when i hurt my shoulder, but i also use it once in awhile when i alternate from incline dumbells because for some reason the incline bench at my gym is made for taller people, the seat doesn't move and the rack height doesn't change so i can't go as heavy as i can because to get it racked and unracked i have to get out of the seat, when i don't have a spotter
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    Quote Originally Posted by GymRat7197 View Post
    There's always a power rack if you don't have a spotter, I recommend a power rack any day. If your gym has a smith machine, the biggest chance is that it has a power rack or at least a squat rack, as well.
    Yeah, I tend to use the power rack with safety pins if I'm approaching max weight on major lifts.
    There are a few things like maybe behind the back wrist curls or maybe shrugs that are ok with a smith, but a smith machine almost always puts your joints in an unnatural movement patern during the big multi joint movements which ups the chance for injury and certain imbalances.
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    [QUOTE=-2z-;1963059]but a smith machine almost always puts your joints in an unnatural movement patern during the big multi joint movements which ups the chance for injury and certain imbalances.[/QUOTE]

    The truth has been spoken!

    That is exactly what I'm trying to stress and you hit the nail on the head with the hammer and completely smashed it through the board! Reps!
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    And oh my god every exercise should never be performed because they all have downfalls!
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    Quote Originally Posted by Delita420 View Post
    And oh my god every exercise should never be performed because they all have downfalls!
    You're just adding to them to perform an unnatural movement pattern to get stronger, it just doesn't make sense.

    We choose our more dominant compound movements by movements that occur mainly in nature. For example the bench press, overhead press, and squat are the basic push movements. They're the core of pushing movements simply because their the most natural movements that the body is not only used to working but benefits in everyday life from practicing these movements.

    You use different movements that involve different antagonists, synergists, stabilizers, and dynamic stabilizers to further educate these movements as well as the body parts utilized to properly execute and learn to use these forces more efficiently.

    The most common movement in pressing is probably the squat. You squat a variety of times during the day, another one would be the bench press in which you push something away from your body. The next would be the overhead press where it occurs anytime you lift above your head.

    This alone doesn't only make the movement itself natural but helps to better generate force in the natural movement in these planes. As long as you're contemplating this when you choose the source in which you use to generate, you will grow.

    Having a machine give you a fixed range of motion that will not work your stabilizers just doesn't at all make sense to me, especially when you have the ability to use free barbell weights.
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    Quote Originally Posted by GymRat7197 View Post
    You're just adding to them to perform an unnatural movement pattern to get stronger, it just doesn't make sense.

    We choose our more dominant compound movements by movements that occur mainly in nature. For example the bench press, overhead press, and squat are the basic push movements. They're the core of pushing movements simply because their the most natural movements that the body is not only used to working but benefits in everyday life from practicing these movements.

    You use different movements that involve different antagonists, synergists, stabilizers, and dynamic stabilizers to further educate these movements as well as the body parts utilized to properly execute and learn to use these forces more efficiently.

    The most common movement in pressing is probably the squat. You squat a variety of times during the day, another one would be the bench press in which you push something away from your body. The next would be the overhead press where it occurs anytime you lift above your head.

    This alone doesn't only make the movement itself natural but helps to better generate force in the natural movement in these planes. As long as you're contemplating this when you choose the source in which you use to generate, you will grow.

    Having a machine give you a fixed range of motion that will not work your stabilizers just doesn't at all make sense to me, especially when you have the ability to use free barbell weights.
    Having a machine give you a fixed range of motion allows you to do things that would be otherwise impossible to perform with free weights.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Delita420 View Post
    Having a machine give you a fixed range of motion allows you to do things that would be otherwise impossible to perform with free weights.
    Your goal in gaining strength should be to educate the primary movements of the body, which is why we do natural movements over unnatural movements anyway, doing a natural movement in an unnatural fashion doesn't make sense either.

    The benefit of a bench press over a fly is the ability to utilize the triceps, the anterior deltoids, the lats (during the eccentric portion) and overload the multiple muscle groups at one time, why cancel the utilization for an overall less effective workout?
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    Quote Originally Posted by GymRat7197 View Post
    Your goal in gaining strength should be to educate the primary movements of the body, which is why we do natural movements over unnatural movements anyway, doing a natural movement in an unnatural fashion doesn't make sense either.

    The benefit of a bench press over a fly is the ability to utilize the triceps, the anterior deltoids, the lats (during the eccentric portion) and overload the multiple muscle groups at one time, why cancel the utilization for an overall less effective workout?
    DUDE! You can't narrow down your workout to only one essential exercise... Now your bashing the free weight fly, and your point is to promote free weights. Furthermore, you preach against unnatural form... Yet you bash the natural fly motion. Do you have a point, or are you trolling?
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    Quote Originally Posted by Delita420 View Post
    DUDE! You can't narrow down your workout to only one essential exercise... Now your bashing the free weight fly, and your point is to promote free weights. Furthermore, you preach against unnatural form... Yet you bash the natural fly motion. Do you have a point, or are you trolling?
    You're not listening at all, I've always said when someone gets on the offensive when trying to argue it's because they have no logic to argue.

    I said the REASONS to perform a bench press over a fly is that the bench press is a more NATURAL movement by the body and INVOLVE and OVERLOAD more muscle groups at the same time for an overall more effective workout. No one bashed the free weight fly, as they have their place.

    Yes my point IS to promote free weights. Yes, I preach against an unnatural form. You generate force in natural planes of motion to allow your body to work more efficiently in those planes of motion, so performing an unnatural plane of motion and canceling utilization of multiple muscle groups at once just doesn't make sense to me at all.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Delita420 View Post
    DUDE! You can't narrow down your workout to only one essential exercise... Now your bashing the free weight fly, and your point is to promote free weights. Furthermore, you preach against unnatural form... Yet you bash the natural fly motion. Do you have a point, or are you trolling?
    Have you ever seen anyone squatting in a squat rack and watched them carefully? Just makes me cringe.
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    Quote Originally Posted by GymRat7197 View Post
    You're not listening at all, I've always said when someone gets on the offensive when trying to argue it's because they have no logic to argue.

    I said the REASONS to perform a bench press over a fly is that the bench press is a more NATURAL movement by the body and INVOLVE and OVERLOAD more muscle groups at the same time for an overall more effective workout. No one bashed the free weight fly, as they have their place.

    Yes my point IS to promote free weights. Yes, I preach against an unnatural form. You generate force in natural planes of motion to allow your body to work more efficiently in those planes of motion, so performing an unnatural plane of motion and canceling utilization of multiple muscle groups at once just doesn't make sense to me at all.
    How about bench press followed by flys? That would overload the pecs much more than only doing one exercise, you could even do some drop sets on the incline smith press afterwards. I don't think arnold would be telling you to do only one exercise. I understand the differences in exercises, but they all have their place. They all work, but you'll have to tailor your routine to fit you. You can bash the smith all you want, but it gives me results. No way am I going to abandon an exercise that is allowing me to progress.

    If you are wondering, I've developed a strange routine. It involves using the smith machine with heavy weights to work on a basic compound movement. Following the smith I use only free weights. My theory is that I can tire out the major muscles early, then the 'stabilizers' as you call them will be taxed much more during the free weights. It's somewhat of a reversed routine, I believe most people use the stationary movements at the end of the workout. It's working great so far, but to each his own.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Delita420 View Post
    How about bench press followed by flys? That would overload the pecs much more than only doing one exercise, you could even do some drop sets on the incline smith press afterwards. I don't think arnold would be telling you to do only one exercise. I understand the differences in exercises, but they all have their place. They all work, but you'll have to tailor your routine to fit you. You can bash the smith all you want, but it gives me results. No way am I going to abandon an exercise that is allowing me to progress.
    Arnold did his thing; however, no one should follow in his footsteps because that's once again HIS thing. In no way should your average Jo or beginner train like Arnold, when you're on different levels, you should train like that. A beginner training like Mr. Olympia is an epic fail.

    Mr. Universe should train like Mr. Universe, not to mention, after hearing some of the things Arnold said I've found him to be a complete moron (I'm entitled to my opinion!) Once I heard him say "arnold presses overload the posterior and anterior deltoids. That's not true, if you need me to elaborate on why, feel free to ask.

    Fly's after bench presses are fine, if you feel you still have the energy, especially if you like the feel of pumping blood into the muscle tissue. Doing only one exercise can will work, especially with beginners. With beginners, less is more (once again, not calling anyone a beginner).

    The smith machine isn't as effective as regular free weights, that's the moral. You say the smith machine works, well you can cut your lawn with scissors and say it works, but so does a lawn mower "to each is own" is up to you, but which does the better job?

    The three pros of conventional free weights on a smith machine

    More Strength & Muscles.
    Squatting with free weights is harder than inside the smith machine. You must control & balance the bar. Exercises that stress your body more give better results.

    Functional. Pick a heavy object from the floor, put it on your back & get up. No machine balances the object for you. You must do it yourself. This is functional strength. Smith machines donít build it.

    Safer. You decide where the barbell goes when using free weights. The smith machine forces you into fixed & unnatural movement patterns. This can cause injury.

    Source:- http://stronglifts.com/why-you-shoul...-free-weights/

    If you are wondering, I've developed a strange routine. It involves using the smith machine with heavy weights to work on a basic compound movement. Following the smith I use only free weights. My theory is that I can tire out the major muscles early, then the 'stabilizers' as you call them will be taxed much more during the free weights. It's somewhat of a reversed routine, I believe most people use the stationary movements at the end of the workout. It's working great so far, but to each his own.
    The person performing the range of motion should balance the weight himself using his stabilizers, how exactly does a weak stabilizer benefit someone looking for function strength / overall development? Not at all, training on a smith machine then using free weights (unless, of course you have an injury) is complete backwards training.

    A bench press can and will pre-exhaust the triceps, anterior deltoids, lats, traps, core, and can give the glutes (if you're lifting heavy) an optimal workout. They overload and utilize different muscle groups which is why they're essentially the bread and butter of a mass building exercises, if you feel you'd like to work the chest more with fly's, crossovers, and I love incline bench presses, then sure, after you do the compound and get the optimal/more dominant exercise in, feel free to isolate the muscle.
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    Quote Originally Posted by GymRat7197 View Post
    Arnold did his thing; however, no one should follow in his footsteps because that's once again HIS thing. In no way should your average Jo or beginner train like Arnold, when you're on different levels, you should train like that. A beginner training like Mr. Olympia is an epic fail.

    Mr. Universe should train like Mr. Universe, not to mention, after hearing some of the things Arnold said I've found him to be a complete moron (I'm entitled to my opinion!) Once I heard him say "arnold presses overload the posterior and anterior deltoids. That's not true, if you need me to elaborate on why, feel free to ask.

    Fly's after bench presses are fine, if you feel you still have the energy, especially if you like the feel of pumping blood into the muscle tissue. Doing only one exercise can will work, especially with beginners. With beginners, less is more (once again, not calling anyone a beginner).

    The smith machine isn't as effective as regular free weights, that's the moral. You say the smith machine works, well you can cut your lawn with scissors and say it works, but so does a lawn mower "to each is own" is up to you, but which does the better job?

    The three pros of conventional free weights on a smith machine

    More Strength & Muscles.
    Squatting with free weights is harder than inside the smith machine. You must control & balance the bar. Exercises that stress your body more give better results.

    Functional. Pick a heavy object from the floor, put it on your back & get up. No machine balances the object for you. You must do it yourself. This is functional strength. Smith machines donít build it.

    Safer. You decide where the barbell goes when using free weights. The smith machine forces you into fixed & unnatural movement patterns. This can cause injury.

    Source:- http://stronglifts.com/why-you-shoul...-free-weights/



    The person performing the range of motion should balance the weight himself using his stabilizers, how exactly does a weak stabilizer benefit someone looking for function strength / overall development? Not at all, training on a smith machine then using free weights (unless, of course you have an injury) is complete backwards training.

    A bench press can and will pre-exhaust the triceps, anterior deltoids, lats, traps, core, and can give the glutes (if you're lifting heavy) an optimal workout. They overload and utilize different muscle groups which is why they're essentially the bread and butter of a mass building exercises, if you feel you'd like to work the chest more with fly's, crossovers, and I love incline bench presses, then sure, after you do the compound and get the optimal/more dominant exercise in, feel free to isolate the muscle.
    Yeah, and preacher curls are bullsh1t too because your arms are in a fixed position? WRONG!
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    i have read several articles since starting the thread.

    and yes normal bench is better than smith bench for shure.

    By how much, that can be argued.

    But smith has very good positves, safety and the weight you can pile(which would stimulate the fiber in a different way,albiet no stabilizers). And also its good for newbs who struggle with form, and are doing normal bench so bad, that its be better to do smith(opininon on that one).

    But by the way i wasnt try to spread argument in my thread, i was merely asking people, who use to smith machines, to give some tips or share there routines
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    Preacher curls are an isolation movement, they total body workout isn't relevant to a compound movement like bench presses or squats. The benefit of a preacher curl is to prevent a leverage through swinging a back, there's nothing special about the position, preacher curls can still be used with a conventional barbell. Preacher curls will work a single joint at a time therefore a stabilizer isn't needed.

    Standing barbell curls or alternating dumbell curls (the biceps work more efficiently when supinated) plus the benefits of core stability when standing.

    You can have a machine stabilize your external load failing to give your body the optimal workout or you can stabilize it yourself and add to functional strength, the decision is yours.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mars1107 View Post

    and yes normal bench is better than smith bench for shure.

    By how much, that can be argued.
    Don't mean to be an a$$ but this can't be argued.
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    Quote Originally Posted by GymRat7197 View Post
    Preacher curls are an isolation movement, they total body workout isn't relevant to a compound movement like bench presses or squats. The benefit of a preacher curl is to prevent a leverage through swinging a back, there's nothing special about the position, preacher curls can still be used with a conventional barbell. Preacher curls will work a single joint at a time therefore a stabilizer isn't needed.

    Standing barbell curls or alternating dumbell curls (the biceps work more efficiently when supinated) plus the benefits of core stability when standing.

    You can have a machine stabilize your external load failing to give your body the optimal workout or you can stabilize it yourself and add to functional strength, the decision is yours.
    The preacher curl is a supinated exercise...
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mars1107 View Post
    i But smith has very good positves, safety and the weight you can pile(which would stimulate the fiber in a different way,albiet no stabilizers).
    Safety is not true. The power rack is safer than a smith machine. They are harder on the joints seeing that they have a fixed movement pattern.
    And also its good for newbs who struggle with form, and are doing normal bench so bad, that its be better to do smith(opininon on that one).
    It's horrible for newbies that struggle with form. If newbies have a deficiency in their form, the proper suggestion would be to decrease the intensity of the external load. If they get stronger on a smith machine nothing will change on the free weights seeing the movement pattern is completely different. Their stabilizers, synergists, antagonists, dynamic stabilizers will all still be weak.

    Quote Originally Posted by Delita420 View Post
    The preacher curl is a supinated exercise...
    The non supinated statement was aimed towards the altnerating dumbell curls that are usually not performed at a supinated hand position.
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    gym rat agree with the free weights over smith.. except you will get stronger doing from doing smith machine and switch back to regular bench.. if im benching 205 on regular and 225 on smith.. and i get up to 315 on smith without touching barbell bench i gurantee u my 205 will be up.
  

  
 

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