Fear of overtraining, even more fear of under training!

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    Fear of overtraining, even more fear of under training!


    huge dillema, i dont know how much training is enough training!, some people say leave when u feel a pump, some ppl say stay till ur beat!. my triceps never grow and i think it might be because im over training? but i dont want to lower my volume because im afraid i wont be hitting them enough!, what do you feel is enough?

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    when im all cashed out is when i leave.
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    you should be able to tell when ur overtraining.. u litteraly feel dead in the gym.. ur weaker.. cant complete all prescribed reps.. and just feel like crap... u have to listen to your own body... i will frequently work out for six seven days straight and then lay off for 3 or 4 days... after training for 4-5 weeks,, its a good idea to take some time off .. you will come back stronger.. how long u lay off for is dependent on multiple factors.. that u need to figure out through time
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    remember when you rest you grow!
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    Eat more and worry less about overtraining.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rodja View Post
    Eat more and worry less about overtraining.
    agreed. make sure your getting your daily needs. glutamine and EFA's!
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    Quote Originally Posted by fightbackhxc View Post
    agreed. make sure your getting your daily needs. glutamine and EFA's!
    To hell with glutamine, eat a damn steak.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rodja View Post
    To hell with glutamine, eat a damn steak.
    or you can overlook the importance of gultamine.
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    Quote Originally Posted by fightbackhxc View Post
    or you can overlook the importance of gultamine.
    Overlook the significance of a non-essential amino acid that has been proven to do jack sh!t? Yeah, I tend to do that.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rodja View Post
    Overlook the significance of a non-essential amino acid that has been proven to do jack sh!t? Yeah, I tend to do that.

    what research do you have that shows that it does nothing?
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    Quote Originally Posted by fightbackhxc View Post
    what research do you have that shows that it does nothing?
    Every study done on it...ever. Only in extreme cases (e.g. burn victims, AIDS patients) does it have any effects and the doses administered are not oral, they are IV. Supplementing with BCAA/EAA is much, much more important or, if you're a cheap bastard like me, just plain Leucine will help.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rodja View Post
    Every study done on it...ever. Only in extreme cases (e.g. burn victims, AIDS patients) does it have any effects and the doses administered are not oral, they are IV. Supplementing with BCAA/EAA is much, much more important or, if you're a cheap bastard like me, just plain Leucine will help.
    oh i am cheap. i have just heard otherwise about glutamine.
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    Quote Originally Posted by fightbackhxc View Post
    oh i am cheap. i have just heard otherwise about glutamine.
    Damn Weider's...
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    not sure what that means
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    Quote Originally Posted by fightbackhxc View Post
    not sure what that means
    Ben and Joe Weider are the founders of the IFBB and publishers of Flex, Muscle and Fitness, etc. Glutamine is heavily pushed in these publications for no reason.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rodja View Post
    Ben and Joe Weider are the founders of the IFBB and publishers of Flex, Muscle and Fitness, etc. Glutamine is heavily pushed in these publications for no reason.
    oh ok yea i know who that is.
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    There are a lot of published studies indicating that 1 set per an exercise twice a week is sufficient for maximum hypertrophy. Undertraining isn't performing insufficient sets but pushing insufficient weight.

    Carpinelli and Otto (1998) concluded during a period of 25 weeks there was no difference in terms of strength or hypertrophy between single and multiple sets.

    The above study was published in Sports Medicine and there are others reaching similar conclusions, suggesting that a single set of 8-12 reps is enough to elicit maximum hypertrophy. This doesn't mean you shouldn't perform multiple sets, just there isn't any evidence suggesting it's superior to a single set at maximum weight.
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    Quote Originally Posted by fightbackhxc View Post
    remember when you rest you grow!
    Haha that what i try to tell myself over and over again!
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    in regards to the glutamine debate, taken as a supplement it has very little if no bioavailability to the human body.

    in regards to overtraining... it is rather difficult to become overtrained if you are eating correctly and getting the appropriate rest. and when so you do become overtrained, consdering everything else besides your lifting regiment is in place, it is time for you to incorporate perodization into your routine.
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    Eat more, and overtraining won't be a problem. Undertraining and poor nutrition could be. Or just you need much more protein. Either one

    Mozilla/5.0 (Danger hiptop 4.7; U; rv:1.7.12) Gecko/20050920
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    Quote Originally Posted by Space View Post
    There are a lot of published studies indicating that 1 set per an exercise twice a week is sufficient for maximum hypertrophy. Undertraining isn't performing insufficient sets but pushing insufficient weight.

    Carpinelli and Otto (1998) concluded during a period of 25 weeks there was no difference in terms of strength or hypertrophy between single and multiple sets.

    The above study was published in Sports Medicine and there are others reaching similar conclusions, suggesting that a single set of 8-12 reps is enough to elicit maximum hypertrophy. This doesn't mean you shouldn't perform multiple sets, just there isn't any evidence suggesting it's superior to a single set at maximum weight.

    I think most people don't lift heavy enough on the 1 set though. i remember reading where Dorian Yates once said if you can go another set then your really not giving 100% on the previous set or something of that nature
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    Quote Originally Posted by AndreAnabolic View Post
    huge dillema, i dont know how much training is enough training!, some people say leave when u feel a pump, some ppl say stay till ur beat!. my triceps never grow and i think it might be because im over training? but i dont want to lower my volume because im afraid i wont be hitting them enough!, what do you feel is enough?
    remember that your triceps work when doing any compund pressing movement for the chest and shoulders, they really don't need a lot of attention im my humble opinion, close grip presses and some extensions work just fine but...

    i don't know what your workout looks like, how long you have been training or how your rep range is for that matter, you really haven't given us much info to work with so who's to say?

    if you are over trained then you feel tired and weak not just in the gym but just day to day life, your workouts stagnate and you end up going backwards, if this is the case, take at least 2 weeks off and give your body a rest

    under training is leaving the gym and not feeling like you have even worked out

    good luck
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    Quote Originally Posted by mixedup View Post
    I think most people don't lift heavy enough on the 1 set though. i remember reading where Dorian Yates once said if you can go another set then your really not giving 100% on the previous set or something of that nature
    That style of training is for experienced lifters who have done enough time in the gym for their bodies to handle that kind of stress.

    A novice should never workout like that until they know the basics of lifting weights which does take time.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rodja View Post
    Overlook the significance of a non-essential amino acid that has been proven to do jack sh!t? Yeah, I tend to do that.
    Dis man speakuth the TRUTH!!!!
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    [QUOTE=b unit;1765794]That style of training is for experienced lifters who have done enough time in the gym for their bodies to handle that kind of stress.

    Plus it takes time to improve the excellent mind-muscle connection that is so necessary if this one-set per excercise training is to be effective.
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    ive been training for 5 years, went from 153 8% to 235 10%, im 5'11...so my training is good, my arms always seem to fall behind, just worried im over training em. heres an outline of my routine

    day1: chest
    incline 5x5
    flat 3x8-10
    dips 3x10
    cable flies 2x15

    day2: legs
    squats 5x5
    single leg squats 3x10
    romanian deadlifts 3x10

    day3: arms
    decline close grip 5x5
    dips 3x10
    ez bar skull crushers 3x12
    tricep pushdown 3x12
    curls 3x12
    hammer curls 3x12

    day 4: back/shoulders
    deadlifts 5x5
    lateral raise 3x10
    seated row 3x10
    reverse flye 3x10
    lat pulldown 3x10
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    You are training your arms (in one way or another) 3x/wk with that split.
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    should i just ass 4 working sets of skullcrushers with chest day and 4 working sets of bicep curls on back day? and take out arm day?
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    Pair biceps with chest, triceps with shoulders, and work back solo.
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    okay, but only stick to one exercise for tris and bis? since i do back and chest aswell..
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    Quote Originally Posted by AndreAnabolic View Post
    okay, but only stick to one exercise for tris and bis? since i do back and chest aswell..
    Do multiple lifts for them.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rodja View Post
    Pair biceps with chest, triceps with shoulders, and work back solo.
    I really like this type of routine. I don't think it is a good idea to focus one day of training on just arms. I think you should consider incorporating military presses into your shoulder routine. Its a great compound lift.

    I have had good success with this routine:

    Monday - Chest / Biceps
    -4 sets flat bench
    -4 sets incline dumbells
    -4 sets cable crossovers
    -4 sets dumbell curls seated on incline bench
    -4 sets preacher curls - barbell
    -finish off 3 sets of cable curls

    Tuesday - Legs
    -4 sets squats
    -4 sets leg press
    -4 sets stiff legged deadlifts
    -4 sets hamstring curls
    -4 sets calf raises

    Wednesday
    -Rest Day

    Thursday - Shoulders / Triceps
    -4 sets barbell military press
    -4 sets lateral raises
    -4 sets seated dumbell military press
    -4 sets cable "front raises" - I don't know what its called. Like lateral raises only in front of you. You can use dumbells, but this makes my shoulders pop
    -4 sets of dips
    -4 sets of skull crushers
    -4 sets of cable tricep extensions

    Friday
    -Rest Day

    Saturday - Back
    -4 sets deadlifts
    -4 sets pullups
    -4 sets lat pull downs
    -4 sets of cable rows
    -4 sets shoulder shrugs

    Sunday
    -Rest Day


    --You could do back on Friday and then take the weekend off too. My tri's are spent on shoulder day, and my biceps are spent on Chest day. Also, I get a bit of a workout on my Tri's on shoulder day from the presses, and on back day, I can feel it a bit in my biceps on the pull downs and cable rows.

    I hope I don't sound like I am telling you what to do. I am just giving an example of what works for me. I believe it is a great split, and you can substitute different lifts that work for you on each day.
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    Quote Originally Posted by AndreAnabolic View Post
    huge dillema, i dont know how much training is enough training!, some people say leave when u feel a pump, some ppl say stay till ur beat!. my triceps never grow and i think it might be because im over training? but i dont want to lower my volume because im afraid i wont be hitting them enough!, what do you feel is enough?
    less is more

    my shoulder and tricep day right now

    dumbell press: 120lb each hand x 6, x 5
    side lateral: 70lb each hand x 6
    rear lateral: 65lb each hand x 6

    Lying Tricep Extension: 185lb x 7, x 6
    Tricep Pulldown: 2 sets x 6 x 5 (weight varies on racks)
    Overhead Extension One Arm: 60lb x 6

    easy breezy

    don't go for pump. don't go for soreness. don't go for exhaustion.
    Go for heavy weight
    good form

    and increase over time
  

  
 

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