Strength workouts...

[JudoJosh]

Looking for some advice/opinions here... alot of the workouts I see are based on size and growing big..I am looking for more of a strength/explosive program.. maybe something similar to what a football player or fighter might do... main goal is to have power and be able to explode with it..

I just started looking into HIIT for endurance.. but if you got any endurance drills or tips that would be helpful too..

thanks

 

[LoPips20]

It might help to do compound excersices as compared to isolation. Ex. Squats, deadlifts, bench, cleans, push press'. Things like those. Also reps 4-8 would probablly be key for you as you would gain strength while also getting bigger. 1-3 reps is purely strength gaining and is recommended against. Anything above 8 usually goes towards body building. Generally speaking stick with 4-6 with no more than 8

 

[CopyCat]

http://crossfit.com/

http://www.crossfitendurance.com/

Just saying

Start with just the crossfit then later add the crossfitendurance

 

[pmiller383]

Google Westside Barbell Training

 

[JudoJosh]

thanks for the link.. ima be looking into them today..

I had heard about crossfit befroe.. thanks for the site link..

so far I am tryna put together a good strength/explosiveness routine so far I got

Day1.
squats 3x5-8
bench: 3x5-8
seated military: 3x5-8
close grip bench: 3x5-8
seated calf raise: 3x5-8

Day2
deadlift: 3x5-8
stiff deadlift: 3x5-8
lat pulldown: 3x5-8
bb curl: 3x5-8
bb row: 3x5-8


any inputs on how it looks so far??
Day3
cleans: 3x5-8
high pulls: 3x5-8
kettle bells- swings, snatchs, cleans, toe touches,
(looking into more kb workouts)

this is what I got so far.. I might move day 1 to inbetween day 2 and 3 depending how my back feels after it all..

also gonna be looking into the crossfit and westside links for more info

 

[Rodja]

Crossfit will do nothing for strength. Westside training or 5x5 would be best for you. I also like DeFranco's Westside for Skinny Bastards for athletic purposes.

 

[JudoJosh]

but would crosfit help with endurance and stamina? or is it just overhype?

 

[Rodja]

but would crosfit help with endurance and stamina? or is it just overhype?

It's not very sport applicable and is basically a ripoff of what is called dinosaur training that has been employed by many MMAist for years.

 

[CopyCat]

Rodja doesn't like crossfit and that's fine, but I disagree that it won't help with strength. It's built around olympic lifts, power lifts, gymnastic skills and others. So those don't help strength? If you look at the vids on the main site, google vids etc and check out things like the crossfit games I think you will find strength most definitely comes from it. Now I admit if body building is what one is looking for then crossfit is not for you.

Also if you look at the exercise and demo link on the L of the crossfit page you will find some good vids on KB's. They are awesome.

 

[CopyCat]

but would crosfit help with endurance and stamina? or is it just overhype?

I know friends who have made it through BUD/s (Seal training) Marine Recon etc. off of crossfit training alone. If you know anything about what they go through you'll know it requires serious endurance.

 

[Rodja]

Rodja doesn't like crossfit and that's fine, but I disagree that it won't help with strength. It's built around olympic lifts, power lifts, gymnastic skills and others. So those don't help strength? If you look at the vids on the main site, google vids etc and check out things like the crossfit games I think you will find strength most definitely comes from it. Now I admit if body building is what one is looking for then crossfit is not for you.

Also if you look at the exercise and demo link on the L of the crossfit page you will find some good vids on KB's. They are awesome.

Yes, because doing 135 lb deadlifts builds strength...:lol:

 

[CopyCat]

"The CrossFit program is designed for universal scalability making it the perfect application for any committed individual regardless of experience".

From crossfit site.

If your small, inexperienced drop the weight down. If 135 is easy, light etc. scale up.

 

[Rodja]

"The CrossFit program is designed for universal scalability making it the perfect application for any committed individual regardless of experience".

From crossfit site.

If your small, inexperienced drop the weight down. If 135 is easy, light etc. scale up.

Based on my experience sparring/grappling with some that swear by cross-fit and how I toss them around because they're weak, I would say it is not a strength builder. I have had roughly the same kind of resistance workouts for years and made some adaptations on volume to accomodate the extra training load. I train with several MW and LHW and I can still overpower them because I lift to increase my pure strength. When it comes down to a one moment scenario, the person who can put up the larger raw number is going to prevail.

Plus, the form used by crossfit is terrible and relies so much on momentum.

 

[JudoJosh]

It's not very sport applicable and is basically a ripoff of what is called dinosaur training that has been employed by many MMAist for years.

any more info on this dinosaur training..

Based on my experience sparring/grappling with some that swear by cross-fit and how I toss them around because they're weak, I would say it is not a strength builder. I have had roughly the same kind of resistance workouts for years and made some adaptations on volume to accomodate the extra training load. I train with several MW and LHW and I can still overpower them because I lift to increase my pure strength. When it comes down to a one moment scenario, the person who can put up the larger raw number is going to prevail.

Plus, the form used by crossfit is terrible and relies so much on momentum.

mind posting up or pm'ing me ur workout program.. seems I might have the same type of goals.. I am on the heavy side so when I do back to back drills with guys of the similar weight class I get over powered alot.. I have been working alot of techniques to try and have that advantage over guys who are stronger then I am.. but I want to get my strength up aswell.. any advice or info would be greatly appreaciated

I know friends who have made it through BUD/s (Seal training) Marine Recon etc. off of crossfit training alone. If you know anything about what they go through you'll know it requires serious endurance.

I am lookingi nto the site.. I see there is a "combatives" catergory which seems interesting.. hopefully it will have some good helpful stuff..

 

[Rodja]

any more info on this dinosaur training..

Google it and go to YouTube and look up Sean Sherk's training vids.

 

[CopyCat]

Just because someone swears by something doesn't mean that they are the epitome or shining example of something. There are lots of MMA fighters who follow crossfit including BJ Penn (crossfit WOD Fight Gone Bad was designed for him), Paul Buentello, Chuck Liddell's trainer John Hackleman teaches it. Crossfit itself will also not replace skill sets.

 

[CopyCat]

Rodja and I will never agree on the subject of crossfit. All I can say look into it. You might be surprised. On top of that Rodja is basically our resident MMA guy here and has solid knowldge so you won't go wrong listening to him either.

 

[CopyCat]

http://cfsd.typepad.com/RealFighterMagazine.pdf

 

[JudoJosh]

Just because someone swears by something doesn't mean that they are the epitome or shining example of something. There are lots of MMA fighters who follow crossfit including BJ Penn (crossfit WOD Fight Gone Bad was designed for him), Paul Buentello, Chuck Liddell's trainer John Hackleman teaches it. Crossfit itself will also not replace skill sets.

yea I was watching some of John Hackleman's vids.. look like all fight tips instead of actual workout techniques but it does look like he makes a dvd that is crossfit training for MMA which looks like it might be real good.. gonna try and find reviews for it..

 

[Rodja]

Here is a decent reference about most of my training during periods when I am foucsig on strength while still incorporating cardio into my training.

http://anabolicminds.com/forum/supplement-reviews-logs/84874-rodja-s-xf.html

There is also a link to a previous log in the first post.

 

[Highlanda01602]

I have to put my vote in for Crossfit, as the progression has been undenyable for myself and the people I train with. The results speak for themselves - check out the scores from the 2008 Crossfit games. They are some of the fittest people on Earth. If you have your doubts, try one of the workouts used in the Games and see how your time stacks up against these guys. You will be humbled.

Although I find Crossfit to be applicable to all of the domains of fitness (after all that's the purpose), it is not for everyone.... at least not the mainsite page. Just like any program, you can tailor it to your specific goals.

 

[CopyCat]

Quick clip for the upcoming Crossfit Games 2008 movie

http://media.crossfit.com/cf-video/CrossFitMovie_WorkingTrailer1208.wmv

 

[Rodja]

This is by far the nastiest training I have ever seen. Only the insane Brazilians would think of this.

 

[JudoJosh]

wow **** looks sick.. we do the tire flipping and sledge hitting thing.. I really liked the barbell/punching thing he was doing.. also what is up with that snorkle thing.. what does that do to help?

 

[CopyCat]

Wow, lot of that looks just like things you do with crossfit. I haven't seen anyone use a snorkel yet, but crossfit does have various hypoxic drills.

JJ he is wearing the snorkel to reduce his oxygen intake. Causes your body to produce higher levels of RBC'c as well as increase your levels of lactic acid. Learn to push through the threshold and reap the benefits. In a nut shell anyways.

 

[JudoJosh]

and the tape on his nose.. same thing? to force him to breath out his mouth?.. interesting not sure I would walk around the gym with that on though

 

[CopyCat]

Ya it forces him to breath through the mouth and snorkel.

 

[Rodja]

The also check his plasma lactate levels after every round. Some of the stations are a little ridiculous and his technique on clean and press is terrible, but the hypoxia element is more of what I was trying to emphasize. I have also heard of having a mouth cover to force breathing solely through the nose bc you are more likely to suffer a KO/knockdown when your jaw is agape.

 

[Rodja]

Another style of training to look into is strongman training because it forces you to not only adapt to large training loads, but also for long periods of time.

 

[JudoJosh]

yea I seen the strongman catergory here has a sticky with a bunch of westside training info which I am gonnabe reading as well... looks like I got my work cut out for me with all the readingI got ahead of me from crossfit to westside to dinosaur.. all looks like great stuff.. will be trying to put something together as I go as what is working best for me

 

[Rodja]

Westside is much, much different from strongman training. Westside was designed to increase the strength in the 3 main powerlifts: squat, bench, and deadlift. It can be tinkered to accommodate a more athletic type of scheme and some of the principle are very important.

Crossfit will help with endurance, there is no denying that, but you said you wanting strength and power. I have yet to see a crossfit'er put up some big numbers in the gym (I really don't care how many reps of 95-135 C/P you can do, lifting big makes you strong) and there are an abundance of them at my gym. One of my training partners swears by the basic crossfit principles, lower-weight, high-rep stations, and he ends up gassing out because of the overall strength difference. I am may be in better shape than someone, but, if they're physically stronger than me, then I will get worn out trying to overcome them (paging Robdog...)

 

[CopyCat]

As well don't be afraid to sort of mix and match different elements.

As far as hypoxic drills I do hypoxic swimming drills quite a bit. 50m laps and take 1 breath per stroke the 1st lap, then 1 breath per 2 strokes, 1 breath per 3 strokes etc. pyramiding up to 12 and back down.