Quercetin in supps

Arzi75

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Just a thought, but I have been recently paying attention to that a lot of supp companies are adding quercetin to their supps.

I know quercetin has many uses (can be used as an antioxidant in its own etc.), but I have a feeling that a lot of these companies are adding quercetin there to make their active ingredients more powerful by providing a little CYP3A4 inhibition.

For example, I have at least 3 or 4 products in my supp cab currently that contain added quercetin (well, one being just quercetin).

I'm just worried that - and my worry might be totally unwarranted here - correct me if I'm wrong - but by adding quercetin at random to every other product, we might be forgettting that we may be putting the users of multiple supps - especially multiple pharmaceuticals - at risk because of the slowed down metabolism of ingredients that are metabolized normally by CYP3A4.

Not directing this at no one in particular, but I have seen many a company jumping on the resveratrol-quercetin band wagon lately (probably thanks to Patrick Arnold's inclusion of these in the 6-OXO Extreme as a natty test booster), but also seen many other supps not in any way, shape, or form related to any antioxidative use starting to sport quercetin on their labels.

Should these products have a note on their labels telling that "Please, note that the quercetin we have added here to make our product more potent may also be causing the other supps or medications you are taking to be more potent"?

Am I just being overly cautious about the efficacy of quercetin as a CYP450 inhibitor or should someone actually try to rein in the quercetin spree before someone gets hurt by it?

Just food for thought - I love quercetin in its own and in conjunction with some select supps, but just afraid of the ramifications of having too much quercetin in too many supps concurrently increasing their half lives beyond what might be considered healthy.

Also, the same goes for naringin, but I have not seen so widespread usage of naringin in supps, yet.

Any constructive thoughts?
 

Arzi75

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I don't know how potent of an CYP enzyme inhibitor quercetin is per mg, but my concern is not that if some supp company puts in 20mg or 100mg of quercetin to add to the potency of their product, but the fact that there are a lot of people out there who consume a lot of these products and conversely a lot of products that has quite significant amounts of quercetin in them.

For example, most of these resrevatrol-quercetin combos feature 1000-1200 mg of quercetin - I don't how much impact that is going to have on inhibiting your CYP enzymes but I know that that is heck of a lot more that what is featured in your Wal-Mart daily anti-oxidant mix!

So, if you guys are like me and Easy EJL who take supplements by the boatload and like super-dosing them, the amount of quercetin in your resrevatrol-quercetin combo combined with the quercetin in your anti-oxidant mix and perhaps a few other select supps, can amount to something that can lead to some drug interactions, although unlikely.

Especially if you are taking some PHs, it can even boost the potency of your supps to undesired levels.

I bet Easy EJL (the 30g of fish oil + 15g CLA ED guy :)) is probably right now hunched over in his secret supplement walk-in closet, stuffing his mouth with both 4g of resveratrol and quercetin (at least in those lonely moments of the wee hours, he is)! LOL
 
EasyEJL

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Actually for whatever reason i've currently not been using resveratrol, mostly because i'm waiting for IBE's Reverse product to give it a whirl. I still take 750mg of quercetin a day because it works well for me as an antihistamine :)
 

Arzi75

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Easy - you have a reputation to uphold! I was betting more like on 5000 mg of quercetin! Twice a day. LOL :)

Maybe the economic downturn has reached the unthinkable and even the Easy E himself is forced to skimp on his supps! Heaven forbid!

Only 750 mg a day! Things need to improve, folks!

If a man (Easy EJL) can't afford his daily 1000mg of quercetin, DANG, something's wrong with our country!! :)
 

Arzi75

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I still take 750mg of quercetin a day because it works well for me as an antihistamine :)
Good point, Easy, quercetin is indeed a powerful anti-histamine along with a myriad of anti-oxidant properties. Just don't forget its blood-thinning effects and CYP inhibition properties (which was the crux of my thread here). :)
 
EasyEJL

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yeah, truthfully the same is true over bioperine/piperine. and naringin. They are nice as additives, and many supplements are low dosed (at least based on our bodyweight). but tack them all together at varying doses in varying supplements, and it makes it hard to tell whats happening
 
AnonyMoose

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Reference nutritional supplement guide

In this article, we'll explain all about quercitin that you need to know. Quercitin, a bioflavonoid ( a type of nutrient that is found in some fruits and green, leafy vegetables, amongst other things such as teas and beans) can be a great asset to your health when taken as a supplement to a healthy diet. Bioflavoniods are the nutrients necessary to maintaining the health of your skin. This is because they help to create collagen, the substance that keeps our skin firm and healthy. Therefore, a lack of collagen can lead to wrinkles and sagginess.

Quercitin has also been shown to help the body improve the health of its capillaries and connective tissues. Due to this, quercitin has been linked to helping to alleve bruising, unsightly varicose veins, fragile cappilaries, and edema. Also, good news for allergies! Quercitin has been known to block the release of histamine, which may help aid conditions brought on by allergies.

After testing at the Mayo clinic, quercitin was also shown to be useful in helping to treat or prevent prostate cancer. In the findings of the Mayo Clinic study about quercitin, Mayo Clinic researcher Nianzeng Xing, Ph.D stated that "Our laboratory results showed quercitin blocks the androgen activity in androgen-responsive human prostate cancer cell lines." He then followed this statement by asserting that "By blocking the androgen activity, the growth of prostate cancer cells can be prevented or stopped." While this research doesnt prove quercitin will actually truly benefit men with prostate cancer or those at risk, it definitely shows promise as a preliminary study.

While there is not a recommended daily allowance, or RDA, of quercitin, studies have indicated that toxicity with quercitin is largely a non issue. However, a dosage of somewhere between 50 mgs and 150 mgs per day is a reasonable dose, and using mega-doses is not recommended. If you are pregnant or nursing, it would be a good idea to speak with your physician before beginning taking this supplement.

author:
John Gibb


Reference: Alternative Health com

Quercitin
DESCRIPTION


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Quercetin and rutin are bioflavonoids found in eucalyptus, the onion plant, and other sources. It is derived commercially from blue-green algae. Bioflavonoids (formerly termed vitamin P) are water soluble and composed of substances which often appear in fruit and vegetables as companions to vitamin C. Major bioflavonoids include citrin, hesperidin, rutin, flavones, and flavonals; although there are over a thousand altogether.

METHOD OF ACTION


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Bioflavonoids are essential for proper absorption and use of vitamin C. They assist vitamin C in keeping collagen in healthy condition, and are vital in their ability to increase the strength of the capillaries and to regulate permeability. These actions help prevent ruptures in the capillaries and connective tissues, and build a protective barrier against infection.

In countering allergic reactions, quercitin is reputed to inhibit, or block, histamine release.
 
rugger48

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I think this goes along the lines of people need to read the bottle and understand what their taking, instead of a kitchen sink approach.
 

Arzi75

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yeah, truthfully the same is true over bioperine/piperine. and naringin.
That's a good point, too. Piperine is nowadays found in every other product, but the difference between the piperine's omnipresence and the new-found prevalence of quercetin as the ultimate active ingredient potentiator, is that piperine is usually quite low-dosed - 5-10 mg per dose - but these resveratrol-quercetin combos now have quercetin in the 1000-1200 mg range. So my question still is that is that so much quercetin that it can cause signifigant drug interaction?

I know that this issue is very well known with grape fruit juice (naringin), but I have yet to see any figures how much quercetin one is allowed take in this regard. We only know what is recommended for standard antioxidant (or anti-histamine) use.

They are nice as additives, and many supplements are low dosed (at least based on our bodyweight). but tack them all together at varying doses in varying supplements, and it makes it hard to tell whats happening
Yeah, it's true - it makes much more sense to include a little bit of the active along with piperine and such than to have a huge amount of some active that gets completely wasted as it doesn't get absorbed no matter how much you include it in your formula.

Yup, I'm def pro-piperin and pro-quercetin, just still curious how likely quercetin is (and at what dosages) to cause significant drug interaction.
 

Arzi75

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yeah, truthfully the same is true over bioperine/piperine. and naringin. They are nice as additives, and many supplements are low dosed (at least based on our bodyweight). but tack them all together at varying doses in varying supplements, and it makes it hard to tell whats happening
Easy EJL, you probably have firsthand knowledge of how much naringin in RPM?

Probably no more than 10-20mg? :)
 

Arzi75

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Good post, AnonyMoose, but it still does not answer my original question. :)

The post, though it states that toxicity is not an issue with quercetin (probably refers to mainly hepatotoxicity and/or nephrotoxicity) when one is dosing the recommended 50-150 mg ED to get the antioxidative benefits of quercetin, says very little about any possible toxicity or CYP inhibition at doses in the range of 1000-1200 mg ED and how likely quercetin is to cause drug interaction (at those dosages).

It does, however, state that "megadosing is not recommended".

So, what constitutes a mega-dose with quercetin (in regard to antioxidant/anti-histamine use or in regard to other supplemental uses?) and why it is not recommended? Is it because mega-doses are not needed to get the benefits of quercetin or because when mega-dosing quercetin, one is indeed risking drug interaction? :)
 

Arzi75

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I think this goes along the lines of people need to read the bottle and understand what their taking, instead of a kitchen sink approach.
That's true. The supp companies cannot control whether people choose to wash their favorite supps down their throats with just a glass of water or with a glass of grape fruit or lemon juice causing any ingredients that are metabolized by CYP3A4 or CYP1A2 to stay in one's blood longer than what the manufacturer intended.

But the problem still is that if the bottle does not mention any possible risk of drug interaction, the average user will not have the slightest idea if anything else he's taking with that supp will be influenced by that extra little quercetin or piperine (or naringin) in it. And 1200 mg of quercetin even is not necessarily that little (per a single dose).

On the other, like Easy EJL noted, often times the supps are dosed so low that any such extra boost in half life is just wished for! :)

Go figure. :)
 
AnonyMoose

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Good post, AnonyMoose, but it still does not answer my original question. :)

The post, though it states that toxicity is not an issue with quercetin (probably refers to mainly hepatotoxicity and/or nefrotoxicity) when one is dosing the recommended 50-150 mg ED to get the antioxidative benefits of quercetin, says very little about any possible toxicity or CYP inhibition at doses in the range of 1000-1200 mg ED and how likely quercetin is to cause drug interaction (at those dosages).

It does, however, state that "megadosing is not recommended".

So, what constitutes a mega-dose with quercetin (in regard to antioxidant/anti-histamine use or in regard to other supplemental uses?) and why it is not recommended? Is it because mega-doses are not needed to get the benefits of quercetin or because when mega-dosing quercetin, one is indeed risking drug interaction? :)
one of the references i didn't post indicated that 500 mg was a mega dose. sorry i didn't hit your other items but thought the gist was how much was too much. in all the reading there was nothing on drug interaction.

hope that helps for now.
 

Arzi75

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one of the references i didn't post indicated that 500 mg was a mega dose.
Thanks, AnonyMoose!

So, according to that 500 mg of quercetin is - at least by some - considered a megadose - what does that make the 1000-1200 mg in the current natty anti-e/test booster supps? :)

I don't think the drug interactions with quercetin are not that well studied as it is not as potent CYP inhibitor as e.g. naringin and because in the traditional anti-oxidant supps the concentrations have been in the 100-250 mg range, but I bet that at 1200 mg and upwards there must be some.

Personally I have been taking quercetin 1000 mg daily for a while and have not noticed anything, but then again, even if you notice something unusual, it's kind of hard to tell when you are taking multiple supps several times a day. :)
 

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