[DormantFiber]

what happens when you consume large amounts of amino acids thats more than your body can process, for example BCAA?

does your body stores these AA? or do they just pass through and essentially go to waste?

[Rodja]

It'll either help with protein synthesis or be stored as fat.

[raginfcktard]

mainly the other aminos but you would have to try (30+ grams in some cases)....but there are known minor sides to many of the aminos. arginine for instance increases virus activity in your body ie warts and herpes that you thought you got rid of or didn't even have...

i do know there is no established toxicity levels for leucine and isoleucine...valine on the other hand has some minor skin sensations if you take too much.

[mindgame]

I would think you just piss it out.

[Timmo]

Rodja is correct, but im sure some will disagree. Protein and aminos are either used by the body to repair and build tissue or converted to sugar and stored as fat, but during that conversion there is also waste that is pissed out. Having said that though its very unlikely that you would ever take in so much protein that you would have that much of a surplus.

[Royd The Noyd]

Rather then use it in excessive amounts I would try to find the optimal amounted needed (but I agree with Rodja to address your question). This is part of an article written by the Wilson bros regarding luecine supplementation (and it touches on other aminos) that I feel is a very good read:

How much leucine is optimal in a single setting?

Evidence seems to suggest that leucine has to be consumed with a mixture of essential amino acids. For example young individuals administered 1.7 grams of leucine in a 7 gram Essential Amino Acid mixture experience increased protein synthesis (Katsanos et al. 2006). When lowering other EAAs and increasing leucine content to 2.8 grams no further increases in protein synthesis are seen. However, when increasing EAAs up to 15 grams, with a leucine content of 2.8 grams, protein synthesis is doubled relative to the 7 gram EAA mixture with 1.7 grams of leucine in it. Therefore approximately three grams of leucine from a 7 to 15 gram mixture of EAAs is beneficial for protein balance.

However, this did not definitively show what the ceiling actually was. Through there is recent evidence that 10 grams of EAAs is able to maximally stimulate protein synthesis

(Cuthbertson et al., 2005). What is also known is that 40 grams of EAAs do not appear to stimulate protein synthesis more than 20 grams of EAAs, suggesting that the limit lies between 10 and 20 grams, at approximately 3 grams of leucine per bolus.

Finally we can also infer optimal leucine intake based on whole protein intake. Dangdin and colleages (2002) had participants consume 22 grams of whey protein compared to 33 grams of whey protein and found that protein synthesis increased. The whey contained approximately 10.1 % leucine content, meaning the participants consumed 2.2 grams to 3.3 grams of leucine and experienced increases in protein synthesis. However, in reality the investigators actually had administered 0.31 g of leucine in the low condition and 0.48 grams of whey per kg of bodyweight, in the high protein condition ( the average protein consumed was 33 based on participants weight in the study). In a 200 pound bodybuilder this would amount to 43 grams of protein or roughly 4.3 grams of leucine. Based on this we have an upper limit of 0.048 grams of leucine per kg of bodyweight per serving for a bodybuilder.

From current evidence we can make the following range of conclusions

1. Most likely an individual will be able to maximally stimulate protein synthesis at approximately 3 grams of leucine in a single serving. Evidence suggests that individuals moving from 1.7 to 2.8 grams of leucine increased protein synthesis when other amino acids were adjusted accordingly.

2. The leucine should be consumed in a supporting EAA mixture. The lower limit of which appears to be 10 grams of EAAs (Cuthbertson et al., 2006). However, taking into account variability and a study conducted by Volpi and colleagues (2001) the range of optimal EAA dosage, given consumption of 3 grams of leucine may increase to 10-15 grams. Because Volpi et al. (2001) did not examine further increases in EAAs we assume that the upper-upper range is somewhere between 15 and 20 grams of EAAs, based on the finding that no further increases in protein synthesis are found between 20 to 40 grams of EAAs.

3. The only study that administered a dosage of protein based on bodyweight that has relevance was conduced by Dangdin and colleagues (2003). They found that a whey protein mixture 0.48 grams of protein per kg of bodyweight stimulated protein synthesis greater than a lower dosage. Based on the above evidence this therefore most likely places an upper limit at around 0.048 grams of leucine per kg of bodyweight per serving, which is roughly 4 grams for a 200 pound bodybuilder. A more conservative number would fall at around 0.04 grams.

Assuming that most high quality proteins such as whey and meats are approximately 10 % leucine then roughly 30 to 40 grams of protein will meet the 3-4 gram leucine standard in a single setting, which is roughly 150 to 200 calories. If consuming an essential amino acid supplement such as the Essential Amino Acid shooter, one serving administers 3 grams of leucine at 45 calories per serving.

[DormantFiber]

I feel I'm not consuming excessive amounts of AA at most I'll consume 30 grams of BCAA bulk and 15 grams of Glutamine bulk

the reason I asked is that at I'll skip my workouts but keep on consuming my AA at the same rate for maintenance and was curious of its outcome.

the part of storing as fat is alarming it never crossed my mind but sure is more harm than I thought, I will be reducing my dosages on my off days but I don't want to stop taking it all together!

given the dosages above do you guys seen them as more harmful than good?

[Timmo]

My first question is, why are you skipping workouts? I can see missing one for a good reason, but skipping a workout to me is crazy. Also, you should consume your glutamine and bcaa's based on your needs, taking more than what you have too is just a waste of money. Do you consume that whole 30g of BCAA in one serving? If so that is too much imo, I would break that up into smaller 10g servings or even two 15g servings preferrable around or during your workout.

[DormantFiber]

Originally Posted by Timmo

My first question is, why are you skipping workouts? I can see missing one for a good reason, but skipping a workout to me is crazy. Also, you should consume your glutamine and bcaa's based on your needs, taking more than what you have too is just a waste of money. Do you consume that whole 30g of BCAA in one serving? If so that is too much imo, I would break that up into smaller 10g servings or even two 15g servings preferrable around or during your workout.

due to some circumstances related to my schedule I tent to miss a workout session or two a week... since I workout in the mornings @5AM when I work late it throws me off due to little sleep/rest... working out in the evenings right now is not an option.

the thought of consuming all my AA in one serving never crossed my mind.... on w/o days I'll take 10/5 BCAA and Glu pre and post w/o plus another serving before bed, in my off days however I'll take one serving morning and one before bed

using those serving I fell i'm not over doing it and intent to stay that way unless that is too much for the off days!

[raginfcktard]

Originally Posted by Rodja

It'll either help with protein synthesis or be stored as fat.

i could be wrong but this response seems to lacking some info...the aminos themselves do not store as fat but promote the storage of fat?

help me out Rodja...

[raginfcktard]

Originally Posted by DormantFiber

due to some circumstances related to my schedule I tent to miss a workout session or two a week... since I workout in the mornings @5AM when I work late it throws me off due to little sleep/rest... working out in the evenings right now is not an option.

the thought of consuming all my AA in one serving never crossed my mind.... on w/o days I'll take 10/5 BCAA and Glu pre and post w/o plus another serving before bed, in my off days however I'll take one serving morning and one before bed

using those serving I fell i'm not over doing it and intent to stay that way unless that is too much for the off days!

i would continue to comsume the major doses as normal, but i would personally cut out the pre w/o as you are just burning it up...and be drinking some throughout the entire day via a gallon jug or whatever. you are consistantly pumping your body with food, why not do it with the aminos?

[CryingEmo]

Originally Posted by raginfcktard

i could be wrong but this response seems to lacking some info...the aminos themselves do not store as fat but promote the storage of fat?

help me out Rodja...

Gluconeogenesis.

[raginfcktard]

Originally Posted by CryingEmo

Gluconeogenesis.

unless you are on a low carb diet gluconeogenesis is something not of concern. if i am consumming enough carbs my body should not tax itself to making its own...correct?