Havoc Before and After Pics
- 06-23-2008, 11:13 AM
A complete novice lifter has no business taking steroids.
Teach and Learn are motto's of this board. The critical criticism of OD is justified. Some are trying to teach OD that using steroids without any foundation or reaching your body's natural limits is dangerous. Hopefully, OD will learn that using steroids is OK, but should only be utilized later in a lifting career. Using steroids when you are just starting to work out will lead only to trouble.
jealous? Are you 14?
- 06-23-2008, 11:26 AM
- 06-23-2008, 11:52 AM
Even then I think a person should have a good reason to use something. For me when I reached 45 I found that the amount of effort I was putting in no longer returned the same results so I did a couple of cycles of 1Test/4ad transdermal. A couple years later after a long hiatus I found that it was even harder to make progress so I did a couple Halodrol cycles. This year I did a Furazadrol cycle to help me burn some fat. I don't plan on doing any more as it just isn't worth it when there are so many good herbal products. I don't know if my use was justified but I caved and used for those reasons. All I can say is if your going to use something make sure you think about your reasons for doing so. Why young people feel they have to use... well it's a bit of a mystery to me, just try and be more patient.LG Sciences sponsored athlete
Use "walker35" for 35% off at www.lgsciences.com
06-23-2008, 05:27 PM
Keep Posting.. Great results. Let the haters hate. Gonna do a cycle of Spawn (havoc/epistane + Extreme Tren) once I get a hold of a proper PCT.
Can you be a little more detailed with your log? Weight Gain, Strength gain, etc.
06-23-2008, 05:36 PM
06-23-2008, 06:39 PM
Just curious OP, in your after picture your skins completely red, did you get sunburned or get bad problems with high blood pressure?
This worries me as in the Epistane testimonials on NP guy mentioned being Irish and his skin turning from white to red while working out, he says this as if its a good thing, but typically that is not the case.
I didnt think it would give gypertension issues as its a dry compound, but with these new designer PH's its better safe than sorry.
Im asking as Im considering a havoc cycle in the near future.
06-23-2008, 07:24 PM
06-23-2008, 07:29 PM
06-23-2008, 09:35 PM
06-23-2008, 09:38 PM
blood pressure was fine.. however i only check it 1 a week. as for the redness. I was in the sun all day the day the pic was taken.
as for it being dry... I drank water and still felt thirsty quite often... I never felt any bloat like when you take creatine. Just a very Hard Pump all the DAM TIME>>> It is great.
06-23-2008, 10:44 PM
this thread has had a bit of everything going on, knocks, praise, rants and even abuse, gotta love A.M
06-23-2008, 10:49 PM
Yeah - This thread has certainly become erratic at best lol!
Evolutionary Muse - Inspire to Evolve
06-23-2008, 10:55 PM
06-23-2008, 10:58 PM
06-23-2008, 11:03 PM
06-23-2008, 11:18 PM
in saying that though he did ok in the gains dept considering the short time he was on epi, but as they say - "it's not what happens when you're on that counts, it what happens once you're off that is the true indicator to the gains you make."
06-23-2008, 11:37 PM
Can anyone else attest to the fact one gets red when pumped?
(Im not saying that people getting a pump doesnt turn them red, just that in 6yrs of lifting I'd never seen much of a corelation between the two excpet when on PH's that had me pumped but also had my bp through the roof, seems like when Im on Ether and other supps I'll get a huge pump but no noticable redness nor any raise in bp, but again without pics I doubt Id notice much)
06-23-2008, 11:40 PM
06-24-2008, 12:02 AM
The look and feeling a bodybuilder experiences when his/her muscles engorge with blood as the result of exercise.
Therefore with blood being the colour red and if the skin is white with low BF levels, just maybe - one might turn a slight shade of red when pumped.
also the OP said that he was in the sun that day, it's pretty clear by looking at the after pic that he was exposed to UV light.
06-24-2008, 12:07 AM
06-24-2008, 12:10 AM
Too early, too soon, too young, too old, too pale, too sunburned, too tanned, too pumped, too flabby, too short, too skinny, not enough time training, not enough time on cycle, blah, blah, blah..............
To the OP: Congratulations on your progress and your courage to post pics of yourself. You could have made some of that progress over a longer period of time through changes in your training, diet, and supplementation. You are an adult and you made an adult decision, so I cannot fault you for that. I just hope that you will exercise more caution with what you choose to do to advance your physique in the future.
To everyone else: Exercise some class, b/c this man did not come into this looking to be flamed. He was excited about his progress and posted some pictures. Most of you have never posted a pic of yourself(or have an avatar) and you're making negative comments? Some of you don't even post what your age is within your profile and you're telling people they're not ready or are too young? I have caught many a person on the various forums who have lied about their age, had a bad physique and talked sh!t about another's appearance, gave advice on substances when their only experiences with them occurred through reading stickies, and just flat out gave bad advice in general. Sometimes its better to just take a breath instead of posting an opinion so you don't run the risk of coming off as an asshat.
06-24-2008, 12:18 AM
Evolutionary Muse - Inspire to Evolve
06-24-2008, 12:25 AM
You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to Trauma1 again.
06-24-2008, 12:29 AM
06-24-2008, 12:30 AM
06-24-2008, 12:32 AM
06-24-2008, 09:46 AM
9% BF (average of three tests took at my gym last week)
Do I qualify to post in this thread?
Seriously though, I agree we should not attempt to objectify electives so personal as what we do or do not put in our body. Objective standards are nothing more than intellectual experiments: arbitrary classifications that exist only for biological-scientists and Philosophers to exercise their massive egos. With that being said, I've personally seen you tell individuals they 'must' use a SERM in P.C.T., or that an eighteen year old was too young - where does one draw the line?
With no objectivity to be had, we must look to convergent points of inter-subjectivity to morally, legally, and culturally regulate each other - that is, decisions and normative values we feel are innately 'personally' but which many people share, and are actually innately 'collective' (this is how community works): in this respect, training knowledge, body awareness, compound knowledge, and a firm grasp on nutrition are points I'm sure we all think 'should' be possessed in order to make an informed decision on what to put it one's body.
Without possessing any of these things - which I will make an assumption this poster does not - how is one to differentiate between direct and differential causes? If an error was to occur on cycle, which it does to the best of us, will he know how to correct it? Or even simpler, will he know what caused it? This type of knowledge is what experience and knowledge bring; being able to differentiate between serious and minor, direct and differential, and so on.
What's ironic about the individuals in this thread complaining about objectifying someone's decision, is that if 'ogdlow' were to have come to this thread complaining about his hair loss, or gyno, or high BP, or cholestasis even, a resounding condemning would have occurred. So, it is unfair for me to inform this individual he probably made an uniformed decision because he made 'good gains'?
Before anybody starts pointing "Double standard!" fingers around, they should detach the massive, looming whale of a double-standard attached to their back (not just you specifically).
06-24-2008, 09:51 AM
06-24-2008, 10:07 AM
If we dnn't point out our concerns we do him and others like him a diservice. Yes he made good gains - congratulations. Yes he might have been better advised not to do a cycle to get those gains. I wll always advise against premature use no matter what the progress that was made.
LG Sciences sponsored athlete
Use "walker35" for 35% off at www.lgsciences.com
06-24-2008, 02:03 PM
I dunno if my posts were considered rude to the op (if so ya'll really need to lighten up), I was genuinely asking a question concerning health, but as I didnt congratulate the OP on his progress, good job man, a crapload of difference between the two pictures, especially for that short a period of time!
06-24-2008, 02:19 PM
06-25-2008, 06:16 PM
I went to the doc today and she took my blood. I wont have the results for a day or two.. I will post as soon as i get them. I will aslo post some new pic as well. ... Stay tuned...
06-25-2008, 06:24 PM
07-10-2008, 11:22 AM
08-16-2008, 11:13 AM
And.... The summer got me away from the thread.
As for the test results. All was good.. BUT> ///
My cholesterol was very high. The 4 scrambled eggs before bed every night might not have been a great idea.
As for my gains.. Total was 16lbs .. and I have manage to keep 8lbs give or take a few .
What I did notice was that Havoc really worked!! What I also noticed is that I managed to lose alot of my gains. I am still ahead and look much better, fuller, and strong than before the cycle.
Next time I am going to do more research on PCT and maybe adjust it to find out what works for me.
08-16-2008, 01:34 PM
i kno i am alil late but i thought id say "nice job " & take what you want dude you know the consequences allready .. we all do things that might not be the best idea but we only learn from .. but overall nice gains man
08-16-2008, 02:02 PM
08-16-2008, 08:16 PM
02-11-2009, 08:09 PM
Here we go again boys. Its been almost 1 year and I am about to take my next cycle of Havoc. Wanting to drop my body fat and lean up. Looks like i will start in about 2 weeks. I will post more pics.. current befores and post my progress.
02-11-2009, 09:09 PM
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