CLT, carnitine-l-tartrate info please

[borobulker]

I have been looking around for some info regarding this specific carnitine... any help would be beneficial...

i have found a few sources for info but i am not sure if it would be a beneficial supplement or not...

thanks!

Optimizing Muscle Strength and Recovery with CLT
By David Barr
Through the haze of misinformation clouding the supplement industry, strength athletes are often left wondering if anything will actually help them. Recently, a little known supplement has emerged that can do just that. In this article, we’ll take a look at this product and see how it can help with muscle growth, strength, and recovery.

Before we go any further, you need to know what we’re talking about. The supplement in question is called carnitine-l-tartrate (CLT), and there’s a good chance you’ll be using it for a long time to come. It’s different in both structure and mechanism of action from acetyl-l-carnitine, which is commonly sold as a fat loss supplement. So don’t worry if you’ve tried “carnitine” as an over-hyped “fat burner” and were disappointed by the results.

What does it do? CLT is a unique supplement because it increases the androgen receptor content of tissues. This means that there are more docking sites for our most plentiful anabolic hormone to function. In short, more testosterone/androgens reaching their target = a greater anabolic effect.

This sounds pretty amazing, right? Almost too good to be true, huh? I appreciate such skepticism, and in fact, quite encourage it. However, fortunately we have a growing body of evidence for this one. Better still, this evidence comes from one of the most prestigious exercise labs on the planet, with each study showing the efficacy of this supplement (Kraemer, et al. 2003; Kraemer, et al. 2006; Volek, et al. 2002).

Enter the Anabolic Index Score

So just how effective is CLT? Using the Anabolic Index Score, which objectively measures the anabolic potential of foods and supplements, CLT ranks as one of the most potent products available. When combined with protein pulse feeding, especially after a workout, the impact on muscle growth is great. This combined effect is so powerful because post-training meals also increase androgen receptor content. So you’re really maximizing the effect by combining the two (Kraemer, et al. 2006).

Quick Ttip: For those who are using HRT or other androgen related pharmaceuticals, CLT greatly increases the effectiveness of the cycle. In this situation, you would not only be gaining a pharmaceutically-induced elevation of androgen receptors but also a supplemental elevation.

Anabolism and recovery

We often get so wrapped up in our subculture that words adopt new meanings. Specifically in this case, I’m referring to anabolism (or “anabolic”), which is most commonly used in reference to muscle building, and ultimately, strength. Although this isn’t completely inaccurate for our purposes, it ignores a critical component of anabolism—muscle recovery.

By increasing muscle anabolism, regardless of the means, we’re definitively increasing the rate at which our muscle can recover from the training-induced stress we impose on it. Greater recovery means less down time and increased opportunity to incur the training stresses we seek (i.e. growth and strength). I’m sure you’re probably well aware of this fact, but it never hurts to have an occasional reminder.

To sum things up, by increasing the androgen receptor content of our muscle, CLT will be able to assist with the following critical variables:

* Muscle strength
* Muscle growth
* Muscle recovery
* Magnified effects of androgen use
* Enhanced effects of post-workout meals

CLT is a legal supplement with potentially powerful effects on everything we want that is related to muscle. Better yet, it also has strong potential to improve neural strength and recovery—highly sought after processes that continue to elude us. Considering that we don’t fully understand neural adaptability, there’s much to be covered, which means that we’ll be discussing this in the next article.

Note: I have no stake, financial or otherwise, in any supplement.

References

Kraemer WJ, Volek JS, French DN, Rubin MR, Sharman MJ, Gómez AL, Ratamess NA, Newton RU, Jemiolo B, Craig BW, Häkkinen K (2003) The effects of L-carnitine L-tartrate supplementation on hormonal responses to resistance exercise and recovery. Journal of Strength and Conditioning Research 17(3):455–62.

Kraemer WJ, Spiering BA, Volek JS, Ratamess NA, Sharman MJ, Rubin MR, French DN, Silvestre R, Hatfield DL, Van Heest JL, Vingren JL, Judelson DA, Deschenes MR, Maresh CM (2006) Androgenic responses to resistance exercise: effects of feeding and L-carnitine. Medical Science and Sports Exercise 38(7):1288–96.

Volek JS, Kraemer WJ, Rubin MR, Gómez AL, Ratamess NA, Gaynor P (2002) L-Carnitine L-tartrate supplementation favorably affects markers of recovery from exercise stress. American Journal of Physiology: Endocrinology and Metabolism 282(2):E474–82.

The effects of L-carnitine L-tartrate supplementation on hormonal responses to resistance exercise and recovery.
1: J Strength Cond Res. 2003 Aug;17(3):455-62.

Human Performance Laboratory, Department of Kinesiology, University of Connecticut, Storrs, CT 06269, USA. [email protected]

The purpose of this investigation was to examine the influence of L-carnitine L-tartrate (LCLT) supplementation using a balanced, cross-over, placebo-controlled research design on the anabolic hormone response (i.e., testosterone [T], insulin-like growth factor-I, insulin-like growth factor-binding protein-3 [IGFBP-3], and immunofunctional and immunoreactive growth hormone [GHif and GHir]) to acute resistance exercise. Ten healthy, recreationally weight-trained men (mean +/- SD age 23.7 +/- 2.3 years, weight 78.7 +/- 8.5 kg, and height 179.2 +/- 4.6 cm) volunteered and were matched, and after 3 weeks of supplementation (2 g LCLT per day), fasting morning blood samples were obtained on six consecutive days (D1-D6). Subjects performed a squat protocol (5 sets of 15-20 repetitions) on D2. During the squat protocol, blood samples were obtained before exercise and 0, 15, 30, 120, and 180 minutes postexercise. After a 1-week washout period, subjects consumed the other supplement for a 3-week period, and the same experimental protocol was repeated using the exact same procedures. Expected exercise-induced increases in all of the hormones were observed for GHir, GHif, IGFBP-3, and T. Over the recovery period, LCLT reduced the amount of exercise-induced muscle tissue damage, which was assessed via magnetic resonance imaging scans of the thigh. LCLT supplementation significantly (p < 0.05) increased IGFBP-3 concentrations prior to and at 30, 120, and 180 minutes after acute exercise. No other direct effects of LCLT supplementation were observed on the absolute concentrations of the hormones examined, but with more undamaged tissue, a greater number of intact receptors would be available for hormonal interactions. These data support the use of LCLT as a recovery supplement for hypoxic exercise and lend further insights into the hormonal mechanisms that may help to mediate quicker recovery.

 

[Trauma1]

I have been looking around for some info regarding this specific carnitine... any help would be beneficial...

i have found a few sources for info but i am not sure if it would be a beneficial supplement or not...

thanks!

Great info man!

 

[borobulker]

Great info man!

!!!!!!!!!!! you are just the person i wanted to see bopping around this thread.

maybe we can compile some info here...

thanks bud

 

[Trauma1]

!!!!!!!!!!! you are just the person i wanted to see bopping around this thread.

maybe we can compile some info here...

thanks bud

Yeah for sure. I have a bunch of studies somewhere, but i can't find them.......hmmmm. I'll post them up when i find them though.

Anyway, this is a good thread for info and to spark interest. I'm in!!

 

[borobulker]

sounds good... and the race is on...

thanks bud

 

[nattydisaster]

its good stuff. Anthony Roberts raves about it. Custom Capsule carries it.

 

[Trauma1]

Found a few:


Androgenic responses to resistance exercise: effec...[Med Sci Sports Exerc. 2006] - PubMed Result

Effects of L-Carnitine L-Tartrate Supplementation ...[J Strength Cond Res. 2008] - PubMed Result

L-Carnitine L-tartrate supplementation favorably affects markers of recovery from exercise stress -- Volek et al. 282 (2): E474 -- AJP - Endocrinology and Metabolism

 

[borobulker]

its good stuff. Anthony Roberts raves about it. Custom Capsule carries it.

i didnt even think of them... thanks bud

 

[borobulker]

i notice Mr. Roberts added it to "his" 2perdrol product carried at CC....

... And finally, I added L-carnitine L-tartrate ( 500 mgs), which increases the amount of androgen receptors (and their expression) that your body has, thereby giving you more of them for all that nice active (and bioavailable) ingredient to bind on to, to work it’s anabolic magic on your receptors.

Very interesting product btw...

 

[borobulker]

New write-up

Neural Performance and Recovery with Carnitine-L-Tartrate
By David Barr
For www.EliteFTS.com

In the last article, we looked at the potential for a supplement called carnitine-l-tartrate (CLT) to improve muscle growth, strength, and recovery. In this article, we’ll take a look at the theoretical basis for CLT to improve something even more elusive—neural performance and recovery.

CLT is the most bioavailable form of the common fat loss supplement carnitine. Although it’s generally not marketed for performance and strength, recent data have emerged to suggest that it may play a positive role in these processes. Information on neural stress and recovery is limited, but a tenuous connection can be made between our applied physiology and supplementation.

Recall that CLT use results in both improved muscular performance and an increase in muscle testosterone receptors. The implications of the former are clear, but it is the latter effect that may be neurally ergogenic. That is because the more docking sites we have available for the anabolic hormone testosterone, the greater its ability to deliver its powerful message.

Getting neural

For the most part, exercise physiology has a decent understanding of muscle stress and recovery, which means that we have a few good ideas about how to improve or even optimize them. However, strength athletes are often more concerned about nervous system stresses, the details of which are far more obscure. After all, it’s easy enough to perform some kind of exercise intervention and take a muscle biopsy to see what’s going on. However, you can’t just cut out someone’s nerves for a study.

This lack of information is unfortunate considering that it is these nerve cells (a.k.a. neurons) that transmit all of the signals from our brain to our limbs (among other things). More specifically, it is our motor neurons that are in contact with our muscles, which deliver the message to contract. As we adapt in our training, our neurons are better able to transmit these signals, which is one of the more important mechanisms of becoming stronger, and we are better able to resist fatigue.

Androgenic adaptation

There are plenty of data to show the relation between testosterone and our neural development, protection, and adaptation. That is to say that androgens acting directly on our nerve cells are largely responsible for the changes that occur, and this can ultimately lead to performance. For example, during exogenous anabolic use, neurons grow in size. This size increase can lead to greater signal transmission to our working muscle as well as a resistance to neural fatigue (i.e. improved strength and strength endurance).

Interestingly, it is this specific “connection” or signaling area that ends up receiving much of the benefit from androgen use because this is where androgen receptor up-regulation occurs during androgen use. Again, more androgen receptors mean that more growth and recovery signals can be delivered to the cell.

Up-regulation: An ideal mechanism

If we consider the effect of increasing androgen uptake due to an increase in receptors, we can begin to see why this is such a powerful mechanism of action. In traditional hormonal manipulation schemes, it is our goal to increase the quantity of hormone in the blood. This transient effect usually has some kind of backlash in which the hormonal concentration is ultimately reduced, thus largely negating any positive outcome. However, by simply increasing the number of docking sites for the hormone, we’re actually increasing the clearance of the hormone from the blood. This signals the brain that we’re running low on that hormone after which more of it will be produced.

It’s clear that this latter mechanism is not only far more elegant but also more effective for our purposes.

Putting it all together

The point of all of this is that an increase in androgen receptor content in our working nerve cells would ultimately result in positive adaptations for strength and performance. If you’ll recall that CLT has the ability to elevate muscle androgen receptor content in response to training, the picture will become clearer.

If CLT can exert its protective effect on our working nerve cells, particularly at the level of the nerve-muscle connection, we’ll reap the benefit of increased androgenic adaptation. In fact, if such an adaptation exists, this could be the first supplement available to improve neural functioning and recovery.

Because neural recovery is far more limiting to performance and training than muscle recovery, the implications are quite powerful.

Summary

Although direct evidence for the performance enhancing effect of CLT exists, there is a theoretical basis for this supplement to positively interact with our nerve cells. Such an interaction would entail an increase in androgen receptor content, which would lead to greater anabolic signal delivery. In turn, this would ultimately increase strength, performance, and recovery at the neural level.

Where do you get CLT? I’ve been asked this quite a bit lately so it’s worth discussing here. CLT is a ubiquitous product. You simply have to read the actual label to ensure that the “l-carnitine” you’re looking at is actually CLT.

How much do you use? I recommend starting with 1.5 grams per 200 lbs with a minimum of 1 gram for lighter athletes. Moving up from 200 lbs would involve non-linear scaling, depending on numerous factors. The optimization of such a protocol is currently in development, and I’ll report on it shortly.

References

Herbst KL, Bhasin S (2004) Testosterone action on skeletal muscle. Curr Opin Clin Nutr Metab Care 7(3):271–7.

Jones KJ, Brown TJ, Damaser M (2001) Neuroprotective effects of gonadal steroids on regenerating peripheral motoneurons. Brain Res Brain Res Rev 37(1–3):372–82.

Jordan CL, Price RH Jr, Handa RJ (2002) Androgen receptor messenger RNA and protein in adult rat sciatic nerve: Implications for site of androgen action. J Neurosci Res 69(4):509–18.

Kraemer WJ, Volek JS, French DN, Rubin MR, Sharman MJ, Gómez AL, Ratamess NA, Newton RU, Jemiolo B, Craig BW, Häkkinen K (2003) The effects of L-carnitine L-tartrate supplementation on hormonal responses to resistance exercise and recovery. J Strength Cond Res 17(3):455–62.

Kraemer WJ, Spiering BA, Volek JS, Ratamess NA, Sharman MJ, Rubin MR, French DN, Silvestre R, Hatfield DL, Van Heest JL, Vingren JL, Judelson DA, Deschenes MR, Maresh CM (2006) Androgenic responses to resistance exercise: Effects of feeding and l-carnitine. Med Sci Sports Exerc 38(7):1288–96.

Kujawa KA, Jacob JM, Jones KJ (1993) Testosterone regulation of the regenerative properties of injured rat sciatic motor neurons. J Neurosci Res 35(3):268–73.

Monks DA, O’Bryant EL, Jordan CL (2004) Androgen receptor immunoreactivity in skeletal muscle: enrichment at the neuromuscular junction. J Comp Neurol 473(1):59–72.

O’Bryant EL, Jordan CL (2005) Expression of nuclear receptor coactivators in androgen-responsive and -unresponsive motoneurons. Horm Behav 47(1):29–38.

Spiering BA, Kraemer WJ, Vingren JL, Hatfield DL, Fragala MS, Ho JY, Maresh CM, Anderson JM, Volek JS (2007) Responses of criterion variables to different supplemental doses of L-carnitine L-tartrate. J Strength Cond Res 21(1):259–64.

David Barr is widely recognized as an industry innovator, most recently for his work on developing the Anabolic Index nutrition system. As a strength coach and scientist, he brings a unique perspective to the areas of supplementation, diet, and training. He holds certifications with the NSCA as well as USA Track and Field. For more information, visit www.RaiseTheBarr.net.

 

[Fabulous One]

hahaha...read the same thing this morning and I come here to sniff around and find this thread. Imagine a product with this ALCAR and PLCAR stacked together with a dose of na-r-ala added in. Something special for sure.

 

[Frequency]

its good stuff. Anthony Roberts raves about it. Custom Capsule carries it.

I think NOW also uses it but unfortunate i dont think the planet carries it

 

[borobulker]

hahaha...read the same thing this morning and I come here to sniff around and find this thread. Imagine a product with this ALCAR and PLCAR stacked together with a dose of na-r-ala added in. Something special for sure.

Lets do it. (I'm not talking about Nike)

 

[Urban Monk]

Can you take COQ10 (ubiquone) instead of ALA when dosing carnitines pre-workout?

 

[strategicmove]

Can you take COQ10 (ubiquone) instead of ALA when dosing carnitines pre-workout?

You could, but Sodium R-Lipoate is better for this purpose.

 

[Urban Monk]

Strat,

What about 100 mg Ubiniquol + 500mg NAC at the same time as my carnitine dose?
Is this adequate?

Thanks,

Monk

 

[WilteredFire]

FInally got around for some That i may as well use alongside a good test booster ive got to run next week. Hope this will compliment it. Guys any idea on how good the fat burning effects of CLT actually are?

 

[thebigt]

blue gene has both lclt and plcar. hghup has a decent dose of lclt. it appears supp companies have picked up on it's benefits. NOW-brands also has lclt. i have been told it is a must on trt.

 

[poison]

So THAT'S why blue gene rocks so much?

 

[jaydollars]

Ok so I want to take CLT, someone have any recommendations on the best product, usage, doses, etc...I am on a test booster tight now so looks like it could help.

 

[poison]

Which test booster are you on?

 

[jaydollars]

Testopro and stoked

 

[poison]

Oh, nice. I would just compare pricing between custom capsule and NOW brand.

 

[tnubs]

i really wish nutra would stock this either NOW caps or bulk. seems like its gettin a lot of attention. i got some PLCAR but i havnt felt anything from it.

 

[machinehead]

I've been taking LCLT for months at 3g a day and didn't feel anything until I added the old liquid Phyto-testosterone. Testofen binds to receptors and the combo was the best one I have had for strength gains, better than many androgens indeed. Custom capsule has it for cheaper than NOW has it in bulk so just get some capsules and add some good testofen.

 

[WilteredFire]

I've been taking LCLT for months at 3g a day and didn't feel anything until I added the old liquid Phyto-testosterone. Testofen binds to receptors and the combo was the best one I have had for strength gains, better than many androgens indeed. Custom capsule has it for cheaper than NOW has it in bulk so just get some capsules and add some good testofen.

Nice, thanks for the interesting feedback. Im glad i'll be dosing mine with a test booster then Cant wait.

 

[jaydollars]

I've been taking LCLT for months at 3g a day and didn't feel anything until I added the old liquid Phyto-testosterone. Testofen binds to receptors and the combo was the best one I have had for strength gains, better than many androgens indeed. Custom capsule has it for cheaper than NOW has it in bulk so just get some capsules and add some good testofen.

So do I buy just the normal Acetyl L-Carnitine they are selling, or is there something special should be looking for?

 

[machinehead]

Nice, thanks for the interesting feedback. Im glad i'll be dosing mine with a test booster then Cant wait.

I've done it with test boosters but testofen worked the best. Go to www.testofen.com , they claim it binds to androgen receptors which might explain why it worked so well for me with the LCLT. It didn't matter how tired or sleepy or out of it I felt, there were always reps coming out of nowhere on a DC routine that necessitates adding weight each time or reps. I did both

The first time I used Phyto-test I got incredible recovery but no unusual strength gains. Changing one variable made all the difference.

So do I buy just the normal Acetyl L-Carnitine they are selling, or is there something special should be looking for?

They sell ALCAR and L-Carnitine Fumerate in bulk and custom formulas but LCLT in custom formulas only. I managed to fit 450mg LCLT, 100mg Alpha Lipoic Acid and 250mcg Biotin in a cap. I took 2 of those 3 times daily plus a few grams of ALCAR in my post-workout shake but I've been doing the ALCAR for a while.

I generally don't respond to things guys around here rave about (divanil, drive etc.) but this combo was the best. I think LCLT + Phyto-test + ALR Pro Anabol would be as good as it gets and I'll give it a try once I start 'bulking' again next year.

 

[strategicmove]

blue gene has both lclt and plcar. hghup has a decent dose of lclt. it appears supp companies have picked up on it's benefits. NOW-brands also has lclt. i have been told it is a must on trt.

Blue Gene has L-Carnitine L-Tartrate?

 

[strategicmove]

Strat,

What about 100 mg Ubiniquol + 500mg NAC at the same time as my carnitine dose?
Is this adequate?

Thanks,

Monk

Ubiquinol is significantly better than Ubiquinone. Although Ubiquinol and Sodium R-Lipoate have their different strengths, Ubiquinol should also serve your intended purpose. If you plan to use NAC (in this case 500mg), consider taking at least twice the same amount in Vitamin C (in this case 1000mg) with it to prevent NAC from becoming prooxidative.

 

[UNCnate]

Testopro and stoked

How are you liking this combo?

 

[jaydollars]

How are you liking this combo?

Today is my second day so to early to tell, the logs have had great results

 

[poison]

Blue Gene has L-Carnitine L-Tartrate?

You're right, I don't know why I thought it did. My bad. Man body octane has a good dose of lclt.

 

[thebigt]

You're right, I don't know why I thought it did. My bad. Man body octane has a good dose of lclt.

it just lists l-carnitine at 1800mg. plcar at 200mg. so this isn't lclt?

 

[kingdong]

2 questions

1) Does CLT exist in nature.

2) Which carnitine is the best one for getting fat into the mitochondria.

 

[jaydollars]

Ok some people directed me to places to buy L-carnitine L tartate but when I found the supps they only had carnitine in them...does anyone know where I can order this stuff, or what brand I should buy/look for

 

[poison]

it just lists l-carnitine at 1800mg. plcar at 200mg. so this isn't lclt?

If it was, I am sure they would list it.

 

[poison]

Ok some people directed me to places to buy L-carnitine L tartate but when I found the supps they only had carnitine in them...does anyone know where I can order this stuff, or what brand I should buy/look for

Try custom capsule. They have a forum area here on AM.

 

[dsade]

Ok some people directed me to places to buy L-carnitine L tartate but when I found the supps they only had carnitine in them...does anyone know where I can order this stuff, or what brand I should buy/look for

I just send 12 units of 100 grams each out to Nutra. I'm just liquidating assets, so it should be reasonably priced and cheap enough to play with at high dosage.

 

[jaydollars]

Try custom capsule. They have a forum area here on AM.

They have Acetyl L-Carnitine
is that the same thing???

 

[machinehead]

They have Acetyl L-Carnitine
is that the same thing???

No


Go to https://www.customcapsule.com/

Click on Create Capsule

Click on Amino Acids

Scroll down to L-Carnitine-L-Tartrate

 

[strategicmove]

it just lists l-carnitine at 1800mg. plcar at 200mg. so this isn't lclt?

Certainly not.

 

[thebigt]

Certainly not.

INDEED!!! lol. thanks, strat.:cheers:

 

[kingdong]

Dsade, you seem to know your stuff. I am wondering about CLT's origins. Was it found in nature, or is it a modified nutrient, similar to AAKG?

 

[jaydollars]

Ok so I will make some pills at custom capsule, any ideas on how much I should take each day?

 

[machinehead]

I'd say about 3 grams

 

[tnubs]

I just send 12 units of 100 grams each out to Nutra. I'm just liquidating assets, so it should be reasonably priced and cheap enough to play with at high dosage.

only 12? its gona be gone quick. i really want one! i got the plcar but im really not noticing anything from it :-/

 

[dsade]

only 12? its gona be gone quick. i really want one! i got the plcar but im really not noticing anything from it :-/

UNfortunately that's about all I have.

 

[xx Zues xx]

Whats the difference between l-carnitine l-tartrate and Acetyl-L-Carnitine?

 

[monstermash]

i really wish nutra would stock this either NOW caps or bulk. seems like its gettin a lot of attention. i got some PLCAR but i havnt felt anything from it.

X 2!! I still have two tubs from RPN that i'm using with Genomyx Protocol (1 gm LCLT per serving) and I would like to pick it up with my regular nutra order. If all else fails I'll get it from CC.

I've done it with test boosters but testofen worked the best. Go to www.testofen.com , they claim it binds to androgen receptors which might explain why it worked so well for me with the LCLT. It didn't matter how tired or sleepy or out of it I felt, there were always reps coming out of nowhere on a DC routine that necessitates adding weight each time or reps. I did both

The first time I used Phyto-test I got incredible recovery but no unusual strength gains. Changing one variable made all the difference.



They sell ALCAR and L-Carnitine Fumerate in bulk and custom formulas but LCLT in custom formulas only. I managed to fit 450mg LCLT, 100mg Alpha Lipoic Acid and 250mcg Biotin in a cap. I took 2 of those 3 times daily plus a few grams of ALCAR in my post-workout shake but I've been doing the ALCAR for a while.

I generally don't respond to things guys around here rave about (divanil, drive etc.) but this combo was the best. I think LCLT + Phyto-test + ALR Pro Anabol would be as good as it gets and I'll give it a try once I start 'bulking' again next year.

very interesting. i have some bottles of updrive from jarrow laying around, so i'll have to give this a try.

I'm loving my carnitine stack as far as recovery and mass gains. I haven't tested my endurance yet, so no idea if it helps there.

My current stack is

5:00am- 500mg gplc, 300mg plcar, 1gm lclt

12:30-300mgplcar

2:30pm- 4.5g gplc

4:00pm- 1 gm lclt

9:30pm- 1g lclt

supps i use. RPN bulk LCLT, RPN DCP, Genomyx Protocol, Primordial Performance bulk GPLC, and Life xtension Peak ATP+GlycoCarn.

The LF Ext Peak ATP+ GPLC I bought a long time ago and would buy again because of price.

I also have plans of using Gaspari's Anavite when nutraplanet gets it in because each dose has a full serving of LCLT and BA in it. I'll also be using Primordial's ArginoCarn and RPN bulk PLCAR when i run out of the LF Ext stuff.