[jjohn]

I found this in the Designer Supp's adrenalean writeup:

In addition to the above benefits, recent research into Arecoline has found an intriguing effect on the pineal gland; the gland which produces melatonin. While the pineal gland is large during childhood and releases abundant melatonin, which is thought to inhibit sexual development of children, the gland shrinks at puberty to allow proper sexual development. Arecoline has the effect of inhibiting the pineal gland, thereby stimulating testicular function by releasing the restraints of melatonin (3) and subsequently increasing testosterone levels (4). This is obviously a welcome effect for those aiming to retain muscle during dieting.

Okay, if all this is true, it is really interesting, as I have used melatonin a few times, and found that it works very well, my libido was not really affected (I think...) Would a melatonin decrease cause sleep disturbances too? I am curious if these have a direct correlation..

[ndawson89]

it would be interesting if it was true - i know i have heard also that melatonin could cause a decrease in sperm production -- i just love my melatonin too much to give it up.

[jjohn]

Originally Posted by ndawson89

it would be interesting if it was true - i know i have heard also that melatonin could cause a decrease in sperm production -- i just love my melatonin too much to give it up.

Maybe you'd change your mind.. I would.

[ndawson89]

Originally Posted by jjohn

Maybe you'd change your mind.. I would.

i'll have to do some serious thinking - maybe i'll have to switch to purely gaba and phenibut supps - for my next order i will be getting somnidren - if that could make me fall asleep without the melatonin, than i will take it out of my 'staple' supps.

[Dalamara]

Do they have evidence that the inhibiting of melatonin actually increases Testosterone?

Or are they just looking at it and making an post hoc ergo hoc assumption?

[nunes]

I`m sure that 1mg day wont do any harm, well at least with me it doesn't...

[Trauma1]

Hmmm......I just read something a few weeks ago that said the exact opposite.

Let me see if i can dig it up again.

[fitnecise]

Of course it does, test is supposed to decrease while you sleep. Inhibition by catecholamine release in the morning or using stimulants spikes it.

[Trauma1]

Nope, nevermind. It was an article on melatonin's effects on fat reduction.

Melatonin is vital in regulating circadian rhythm and normal sleep patterns. I don't see a small dose being detrimental at all in inhibiting training progress.

[kanny]

dude ur logic doesn't work? just cuz the englarged gland which inhibits test prod and produces melatonin, doens't mean conversely ingesting melatonin will enlarge the gland and decrease ur test...

[jjohn]

Originally Posted by kanny

dude ur logic doesn't work? just cuz the englarged gland which inhibits test prod and produces melatonin, doens't mean conversely ingesting melatonin will enlarge the gland and decrease ur test...

My logic doesn't work?? This is why there is a QUESTION MARK at the end of the thread title.

You have anything to back up your point? That's what I thought...

[kanny]

In addition to the above benefits, recent research into Arecoline has found an intriguing effect on the pineal gland; the gland which produces melatonin. While the pineal gland is large during childhood and releases abundant melatonin, which is thought to inhibit sexual development of children, the gland shrinks at puberty to allow proper sexual development. Arecoline has the effect of inhibiting the pineal gland, thereby stimulating testicular function by releasing the restraints of melatonin (3) and subsequently increasing testosterone levels (4). This is obviously a welcome effect for those aiming to retain muscle during dieting.

my point?

you quoted this urself, it says test is decreased by the enlargement of the pineal gland, while the gland produces melatonin. However the decrease in test is due to pineal gland enlargement not the presence of melotonin. So oral melotonin wont conversely make ur pineal gland englarge as if u were in infant stage.

so theres no logical connection

/thread

[jjohn]

So oral melotonin wont conversely make ur pineal gland englarge as if u were in infant stage.

All I needed to know. Would have been more simple to write in 1 line though.

[LakeMountD]

Originally Posted by jjohn

So oral melotonin wont conversely make ur pineal gland englarge as if u were in infant stage.

All I needed to know. Would have been more simple to write in 1 line though.

I think you guys are reaching on this one. People need to realize that you have to take a lot of these studies with a grain of salt. Just because something says it increases or decreases testosterone or uses the word "may" doesn't mean it is going to be significant. The best case for this is the case of resveratrol and people using it as a SERM. Crazy. At any rate here:


A Pharmacological Dose of Melatonin Increases PRL Levels in Males without Altering Those of GH, LH, FSH, TSH, Testosterone or Cortisol
Franz Waldhausera,c, Harris R. Liebermana, Harry J. Lyncha, Maria Waldhausera, Kurt Herknerf, Herwig Frischc, Heinrich Vierhapperd, Werner Waldhäusld, Michael Schempere, Richard J. Wurtmana, William F. Crowleyb

aLaboratory of Neuroendocrine Regulation, Massachusetts Institute of Technology, Cambridge, Mass.;
bReproductive Endocrine Unit and Vincent Memorial Research Laboratories, Massachusetts General Hospital, Boston, Mass., USA;
cDepartment of Pediatrics,
dFirst Department of Medicine,
eFirst Department of Surgery, University of Vienna, and
fLudwig Boltzmann Institute, Vienna, Austria

Neuroendocrinology 1987;46:125-130 (DOI: 10.1159/000124808)

Since reports on the influence of melatonin (aMT) on the human endocrine system are scant and inconsistent, the effect of an acute, pharmacological dose of aMT on various hormone levels in healthy males was examined in 3 different experiments. Experiment I: 80 or 240 mg of crystalline aMT were administered per os to 8 volunteers. Before, during and after this treatment, serum levels of aMT, PRL, LH, FSH and testosterone were examined. Although aMT increased at least 1,500-fold over basal levels, only PRL was significantly and consistently elevated after aMT treatment, whereas serum levels of the other hormones were not altered. Experiment II: in 2 subjects, the pulsatile secretion pattern of LH was monitored for 6 h before and 6 h after aMT administration (240 mg p.o.). Neither the amplitude nor the frequency of LH pulses was influenced by the pineal hormone. Experiment III: in 14 volunteers, serum PRL, GH, TSH and cortisol concentrations were examined, once after oral administration of 240 mg aMT and once after placebo. Serum PRL levels were significantly higher after aMT than after placebo; GH showed a slight but not significant trend towards elevation after aMT, whereas other hormones were not altered. An acute pharmacological dose of aMT causes isolated elevation of serum PRL levels and may slightly increase GH. Hormones of the pituitary gonadal axis as well as TSH and cortisol are not altered by aMT.