[EasyEJL]

currently I barely see 75g of carbs in a day, so any amount over that would be novel. i'd probably still have to rely on supercarb + WMS for a bit of it, just to avoid bloating. i'm not stalled yet, but I may try that when I do stall out

[Trauma1]

Good to see you around DS!

I almost tried your adrenalean for my current cut. Looks very promising brother.

[Sldge]

currently I barely see 75g of carbs in a day, so any amount over that would be novel. i'd probably still have to rely on supercarb + WMS for a bit of it, just to avoid bloating. i'm not stalled yet, but I may try that when I do stall out

You could use WMS, I would just time it for postworkout with 50gms of whey.

[Sldge]

Good to see you around DS!

I almost tried your adrenalean for my current cut. Looks very promising brother.

Thanks.

[DreamWeaver]

(I wish there was a multiquote button.) You are right that sometimes if you are too close it might not be wise to cheat, thats when you would increase or start the use of T3. But carb feeding timed around the workout has been shown to not disrupt or negatively impact fatloss.

3 days of over eating carbs 9300-400gms) will reset the thyroid and put you back into fat burning mode.

Yah that is a bit of a leap of faith for me, and contest prep would not necessarily be the time to find out. I would say that yes it does make some sense. I will never be in contest prep again but I do want to try some nutrient partitioning, 300-400 grams may be a bit high for me though. I was planning on using Neovar with maybe around 100 grams total pre and post workout as I am pretty carb senstitive. Maybe a bit more I need to do more research.

[EasyEJL]

you know, i've been using neovar so long now I think I lost my carb sensitivity....

adrenalean is only $20 now with a shirt too?

[Sldge]

Yah that is a bit of a leap of faith for me, and contest prep would not necessarily be the time to find out. I would say that yes it does make some sense. I will never be in contest prep again but I do want to try some nutrient partitioning, 300-400 grams may be a bit high for me though. I was planning on using Neovar with maybe around 100 grams total pre and post workout as I am pretty carb senstitive. Maybe a bit more I need to do more research.

If you were close to getting on stage I wouldnt try it either but at your weight I doubt that 300gms would be too much. Its only slightly more then 1 gm per lb. Most of it should be consumed around the workout as that has the biggest effect on lean mass.
============================== ==========

Yes, we are running a special with Adrenalean and shirts. Just in time for summer cutting.

[DreamWeaver]

If you were close to getting on stage I wouldnt try it either but at your weight I doubt that 300gms would be too much. Its only slightly more then 1 gm per lb. Most of it should be consumed around the workout as that has the biggest effect on lean mass.

Duely noted. I am on contant recomp though so I would prefer to lose fat rather to gain any more mass. I am kind of big already. At my age I would rather keep my weight around 220-30. At that weight I will be quite cut so no need for any more mass. So I will play with the carbs a little, have to do some research to find out where I should start with the neovar but fat burn will be my main goal. You say that I can take in 300 without effecting fat burn, though so maybe I'll bring it up some. I am a little afraid of carbs as I am new to this nutrient partitioning.

[Sldge]

Duely noted. I am on contant recomp though so I would prefer to lose fat rather to gain any more mass. I am kind of big already. At my age I would rather keep my weight around 220-30. At that weight I will be quite cut so no need for any more mass. So I will play with the carbs a little, have to do some research to find out where I should start with the neovar but fat burn will be my main goal. You say that I can take in 300 without effecting fat burn, though so maybe I'll bring it up some. I am a little afraid of carbs as I am new to this nutrient partitioning.

You cant take 300 everyday, it is just for 3 or 4 days to kick start the thyroid. But you can take in 50-75gms around your workout everyday without it effecting fatloss. That sthe ideal time for recomping as the body stores the carbs and protein in the muscle.

[DreamWeaver]

Yah ok got yuh, I was getting carried away almost forgot what we were talking about in the first place. Yes I am aware of the window available for carb intake around the workout. Maybe 25 grams before 50 after, something of that nature.

[maradona10]

Yah ok got yuh, I was getting carried away almost forgot what we were talking about in the first place. Yes I am aware of the window available for carb intake around the workout. Maybe 25 grams before 50 after, something of that nature.

From another forum...the "window" is a bit myth according to some people..I don't know where this study came from:

Opinions vary;


Another HIt against post exercise protein requirements and supplements
As if you had not heard this before here, this abstract from an article titled “Resistance Training Reduces Fasted- and Fed-State Leucine Turnover and Increases Dietary Nitrogen Retention in Previously Untrained Young Men” in the Journal of Nutrition establishes in young, untrained men that the retention of nitrogen (a measure of protein or muscle) is altered by intense work outs to favor protein retention. Feeding does little to alter the balance of protein wastage versus protein retention. Why? Evolution designed our regulatory mechanisms to conserve protein through many mechanisms I have mentioned over the years on this blog. Our ancestors did not have supplements, yet they were as muscular as any one of us should be in a healthy state.

From the abstract:


Nitrogen balance was more positive after training (13.7 ± 8.1 vs. 33.4 ± 12.5 g/(kg LBM · d), P < 0.01) indicating an increased retention of dietary nitrogen. Intense resistance training alters whole body protein kinetics in novice weightlifters regardless of feeding status. The increase in nitrogen balance after training demonstrates a more efficient utilization of dietary nitrogen, suggesting that protein requirements for novice weightlifters are not elevated.

Note that the authors did not distinguish between nitrogen retention with respect to feeding, because there was no difference. So, why would you drink a protein drink laden with simple carbs after a workout? You shouldn’t. Heavy workouts will increase your appetite and food intake, but over a course of days and weeks. There is no immediate “window” for growth; it is a longer term adaptation. And growth is over rated. You want to be muscular and lean, not smooth and a bit over weight. Supplements will promote the latter, not the healthier and more functional former.

[DreamWeaver]

From another forum...the "window" is a bit myth according to some people..I don't know where this study came from:

Opinions vary;


Another HIt against post exercise protein requirements and supplements
As if you had not heard this before here, this abstract from an article titled “Resistance Training Reduces Fasted- and Fed-State Leucine Turnover and Increases Dietary Nitrogen Retention in Previously Untrained Young Men” in the Journal of Nutrition establishes in young, untrained men that the retention of nitrogen (a measure of protein or muscle) is altered by intense work outs to favor protein retention. Feeding does little to alter the balance of protein wastage versus protein retention. Why? Evolution designed our regulatory mechanisms to conserve protein through many mechanisms I have mentioned over the years on this blog. Our ancestors did not have supplements, yet they were as muscular as any one of us should be in a healthy state.

From the abstract:


Nitrogen balance was more positive after training (13.7 ± 8.1 vs. 33.4 ± 12.5 g/(kg LBM · d), P < 0.01) indicating an increased retention of dietary nitrogen. Intense resistance training alters whole body protein kinetics in novice weightlifters regardless of feeding status. The increase in nitrogen balance after training demonstrates a more efficient utilization of dietary nitrogen, suggesting that protein requirements for novice weightlifters are not elevated.

Note that the authors did not distinguish between nitrogen retention with respect to feeding, because there was no difference. So, why would you drink a protein drink laden with simple carbs after a workout? You shouldn’t. Heavy workouts will increase your appetite and food intake, but over a course of days and weeks. There is no immediate “window” for growth; it is a longer term adaptation. And growth is over rated. You want to be muscular and lean, not smooth and a bit over weight. Supplements will promote the latter, not the healthier and more functional former.

Boy you can smell the bias here.

Our anscestors had enough healthy muscle yah, but were bodybuilders we don't want to look like our anscestors, we are capable of gaining much more mass... how do we do it, we supplement our diet.

And who says you can't be bigger and leaner using nutritional supplementation. This is just a dumbass comment. This person is obviously against having the extra lean mass that most bodybuilders enjoy. Extra mass may not always be functional but it gives us the look we are trying to attain.

[mcour1226]

Recreate is the way to go... burn fat with no crazy stim feeling

[spigot]

Recreate is the way to go... burn fat with no crazy stim feeling

Recreate vs T3? Go.

[CHAPS]

Recreate vs T3? Go.

I'd choose Recreate, it's just a great fatloss tool, it covers all your angles. I do like T3 but i wouldn't go over 50mcg without some sort of anabolic, pct is needed and it can deplete glycogen like crazy. Honestly if you really wanted to you could combine them, like 4 caps recreate 25mcg T3.

[spigot]

I'd choose Recreate, it's just a great fatloss tool, it covers all your angles. I do like T3 but i wouldn't go over 50mcg without some sort of anabolic, pct is needed and it can deplete glycogen like crazy. Honestly if you really wanted to you could combine them, like 4 caps recreate 25mcg T3.

What about using Recreate directly after a low dose T3 cycle while the thyroid is getting back up and kicking?

[FLAwrestler88]

definitely would have to say methyl ripped..used in college level wrestling for NCWA..left for winter break came bak about 3 weeks later and my coach brought me to the side and asked me if i was on sumtin i wasnt suppose to b on..good stuff...def. tops my list and ive been on a good amount of fat burners for seasons

[kanny]

..or if you cant mess with stims than go with "Recreate"

recreate has caffein in it

[DreamWeaver]

recreate has caffein in it

Not enough for any sort of stim really. I am very sensitive and don't get stimmed from it.

[thebigt]

lipotrophin-pm has green tea listed first, and it helps my sleep. but it is probably de-caffeineated.

[jmh80]

Napalm with added clenbuterol. The chicks link in my sig will detail the fat loss.

[speedpastu]

If youre going to be serious about your diet Ill send you a bottle of Adrenalean for free. Try it out and let me know how it worked towards the 7lbs of fatloss. PM me your addy if you are interested.

shoot, i'll take a bottle of that, was thinking of trying yellow bullet, im looking to start a cutting cycle and definitely need the boost.

[fatburner2007]

How about 11oxo?